If I had have to make a trip to the US and fly out/back in a hurry for something unavoidable I wouldn't have stayed in one of those
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vaccine poll
- Thread starter Freddy F
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If I had have to make a trip to the US and fly out/back in a hurry for something unavoidable I wouldn't have stayed in one of those
I talked to my sister and brother-in-law tonight ... they've done lots of cruises. Their second vaccine doses are both tomorrow, so whatever happens, probably won't be their issue. They're fully aware of the politics and BS flying around ...
It remains to be seen how this is going to play out with departures from Florida. They've cancelled a planned cruise this fall that was leaving from Florida. Instead, they're planning to fly to Europe a little later (late October) and join a cruise that is departing in the Mediterranean from southern France. That departure requires 100% proof of vaccination, no excuses.
Their thinking, and I tend to agree with this, is that the last thing the cruise lines want is another cruise that becomes a plague ship, so even if Florida prohibits a vaccine passport from being a condition of buying a ticket to board the ship, it may become a condition of being able to do much on board or to do any off-ship excursions after the ship has left US waters. They will probably have to word this carefully to get the point across while not setting off the ire of certain people.
Seems that residents of certain states in the USA can now obtain a digital record of vaccination: California launches digital COVID-19 vaccine pass but won't require it
Hmm. California. New York.
Wonder how residents of Florida will be able to do that?
My wife was supposed to get her second Pfizer today but was advised she would be getting Moderna instead so she cancelled. Her choice.
I have an appointment for Pfizer on July 8 and an appointment for Moderna Saturday morning. I'll be cancelling the Pfizer appointment Saturday afternoon.
What they messed up is the entire implementation of the entire process.
My buddy has to travel for work, has an essential worker letter from the federal govt…still customs made him go to a hotel. But he didn’t have a reservation, so now you’re scrambling.
He showed the same letter the last time he came into the country, no issues.
Our guys travel from the US, EU, and Australia for this job. Each has a different requirement even though they all have the same letter.
Some are clear to go.
Some have to do 14 days quarantine.
Some have to do 3 days in a hotel.
WTF. They’re all the same project, with the same letter, but each has different requirements placed on them depending how the border guards feel.
Zero consistency.
lastly, had a word of mouth story fall to me stating that some people arrived at GTAA and when the border guards told them to hotel they told them ‘give me the fine I’ll never pay it’ and the response was ‘you Polaks are all the same. Always an issue with you guys flying in.’
I’ll take it with a grain of salt but there may be some truth to it. I don’t know.
Lockdowns this fall coming to a Province near you...
news.yahoo.com
As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test.
Of this number, 34 (47%) were unvaccinated, 10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine and 26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.
Revealed: Just 26 fully vaccinated people have died with Indian COVID variant
The UK has seen more than 75,000 cases of the dominant Delta variant, figures reveal.
As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test.
Of this number, 34 (47%) were unvaccinated, 10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine and 26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.
DownUnder
Well-known member
So vaccinated people are dying at a greater rate...Lockdowns this fall coming to a Province near you...
Revealed: Just 26 fully vaccinated people have died with Indian COVID variant
The UK has seen more than 75,000 cases of the dominant Delta variant, figures reveal.
As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test.
Of this number, 34 (47%) were unvaccinated, 10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine and 26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.
There is no information provided on the demographics of those people. In terms of the overall situation in the UK - Daily cases / daily deaths: United Kingdom COVID: 4,667,870 Cases and 128,027 Deaths - Worldometer
Article linked to above (and I've been hearing the same elsewhere) is that 99% of covid19 cases in the UK now are Delta variant - basically all of it. This is the uptick in daily cases at the end (over the last month).
Vaccination progress: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations - Statistics and Research
The unvaccinated still are overrepresented in the hospitalisations and deaths, and the double-vaccinated still are underrepresented. Acknowledging that there is a delay before vaccinations take effect, a month ago when that uptick in infection rates started, the UK had 56% of its population with at least one dose and 34% of its population with both doses. (It's now 63% and 46%.)
From another article (which refers to the same basic information) UK Covid infections rise as Delta variant dominates
"Dr Jenny Harries, chief executive of the UK Health Security Agency said: "Cases are rising rapidly across the country and the Delta variant is now dominant. The increase is primarily in younger age groups, a large proportion of which were unvaccinated but are now being invited to receive the vaccine."
We're still vulnerable but the second doses are rolling out fast. We're at 67% at least one dose and 21% both doses with the latter going up about 1% every day. The next few weeks are the race between increasing proportion of delta variant in the virus and increasing proportion of both-dose vaccination in the population.
The USA is vulnerable. 53% with at least one dose, 45% with two. This is in the ballpark of the situation in the UK over the last month.
I don't think we'll have another lockdown.
Article linked to above (and I've been hearing the same elsewhere) is that 99% of covid19 cases in the UK now are Delta variant - basically all of it. This is the uptick in daily cases at the end (over the last month).
Vaccination progress: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations - Statistics and Research
The unvaccinated still are overrepresented in the hospitalisations and deaths, and the double-vaccinated still are underrepresented. Acknowledging that there is a delay before vaccinations take effect, a month ago when that uptick in infection rates started, the UK had 56% of its population with at least one dose and 34% of its population with both doses. (It's now 63% and 46%.)
From another article (which refers to the same basic information) UK Covid infections rise as Delta variant dominates
"Dr Jenny Harries, chief executive of the UK Health Security Agency said: "Cases are rising rapidly across the country and the Delta variant is now dominant. The increase is primarily in younger age groups, a large proportion of which were unvaccinated but are now being invited to receive the vaccine."
We're still vulnerable but the second doses are rolling out fast. We're at 67% at least one dose and 21% both doses with the latter going up about 1% every day. The next few weeks are the race between increasing proportion of delta variant in the virus and increasing proportion of both-dose vaccination in the population.
The USA is vulnerable. 53% with at least one dose, 45% with two. This is in the ballpark of the situation in the UK over the last month.
I don't think we'll have another lockdown.
The numbers are too small to establish trends. The statistical gurus need to do their thing, and they're still saying the vaccines are +/- 90% effective at reducing hospitalisations and deaths after TWO doses. One dose only gives partial protection.
DownUnder
Well-known member
So the numbers are too small to establish trends but they can claim vaccines are 90% effective at reducing deaths.. How can statistics gurus claim that having 2 doses gives better survival chance then 1 or none when the figures clearly show a trend of double vaccinated people dying at a higher rate...
As Brian P said, you need to look at the demographics of the people. I don't know who went first in the UK but I would assume they somewhat followed the same path as Canada. That would make people that were medically vulnerable a large percentage of the double vaccinated population (and a very very small percentage of the unvaccinated population). Looking only at vaccination doesn't show you the whole picture.
The UK did care homes and elderly folks and people with certain health conditions first, much as we did. We don't know the demographics of the people who had two doses and still died, although that information is surely available to the health authorities and those who do the statistical analysis. If you have that information, you can match up groups of people who have been vaccinated and people who haven't by age, sex, underlying health conditions, etc., and only then can you properly see how effective the vaccine is.
Relative to the population averages, people in the UK (and here) who have been double-vaccinated will be biased towards being old, living in a care home, or having underlying health conditions ... because that's who they started vaccination with.
Relative to the population averages, people in the UK (and here) who have been double-vaccinated will be biased towards being old, living in a care home, or having underlying health conditions ... because that's who they started vaccination with.
No about 25% less for fully vaccinated people so far in the UK.
Which means we had 26,174 deaths in Canada so far and the Delta variant is taking hold now.
So we can expect (26,174 * 75%) about 19,500 deaths as the Delta Variant spreads. Even with those who are in at risk categories who are fully vaccinated.
Pfizer's efficiency number (which is a lie, but that's another story) was using not much more cases then that. Only 180 cases for Pfizer's trial versus these 73 deaths.
171 / 180 = 95%
Figure that one out. As to why some small numbers can be ignored but other small numbers are all we need.
The demographics don't really matter. We learnt that countless times during this pandemic. Starting when China's data suggested we protect the old and vulnerable early on and we did nothing for LTC residents. Or when we shut down our entire nation when a large majority could have kept going with targetted and less costly measures to protect those at risk.
It also doesn't matter when like the UK, we suffered similarly with the initial variant. And if the delta variant spreads like wildfire, we still have just as many at risk of this variant who are vaccinated and still at risk of death.
Well, the demographics DO matter; that we failed to take prompt action is another matter.
It would have been impossible to "protect those at risk". It's impossible to completely separate "those at risk" from those who are supposedly not ... or even fully identify who is "at risk" and who is not. The situation is not black and white, it's a grey-scale continuum; where do you draw the line? (You can't.)
It would have been impossible to "protect those at risk". It's impossible to completely separate "those at risk" from those who are supposedly not ... or even fully identify who is "at risk" and who is not. The situation is not black and white, it's a grey-scale continuum; where do you draw the line? (You can't.)
DownUnder
Well-known member
Are you implying the vaccinated people dying are all elderly and at risk, but the unvaccinated people dying are all healthy young adults? It would be very interesting to see if the British govt releases actual demographics.
Sure you can, South Korea handled it just fine.
Implemented legitimate contact tracing with testing, $110 fines for not wearing masks in public, $11,000 fines for violating quarantine (with digital tracking to enforce it) and a year of jail time.
Among other measures, that still allowed small businesses to stay open, and their economy still being able to run.
They still managed to have a per capita death rate 18 times smaller then ours. That's 1,790% less...
Why? Because they learnt from SARS and didn't turn around and "wait for data" while we "locked down", but kept warehousing open, kept big box stores open, and screwed small retailers, restaurants and service providers.
Implemented legitimate contact tracing with testing, $110 fines for not wearing masks in public, $11,000 fines for violating quarantine (with digital tracking to enforce it) and a year of jail time.
Among other measures, that still allowed small businesses to stay open, and their economy still being able to run.
They still managed to have a per capita death rate 18 times smaller then ours. That's 1,790% less...
Why? Because they learnt from SARS and didn't turn around and "wait for data" while we "locked down", but kept warehousing open, kept big box stores open, and screwed small retailers, restaurants and service providers.
They didn't attempt to separate "those at risk", though. They attempted to, and largely succeeded in, keep the virus out of the country completely, and stop ALL community transmission. Australia and New Zealand did that, too. A frequent narrative here has been to isolate the old folks, and presumably let infection run rampant in the young folks. That ain't what any of those countries did.
Who is talking about separating those at risk? You don't need to seperate them, when you have consistent health messaging, based on real data that was freely available.
It was obvious in January 2020 that those at most risk were the old from initial reports out of Wuhan. It was documented by February 17th officially. And by early March, Italy was already sounding the alarm on comobilities. Both South Korea and Japan took that information and made it known, that people would be putting those they love at risk. So people took extra precautions with dealing with them.
While here in Ontario, we got taught with our tail between our legs, and didn't even come up with a plan for LTC homes, those both aged and with significant health issues, in other words those most at risk in Ontario, until April 8th 2020. Let alone actually implementing it.
Only age related data is about confirmed positives, not deaths.
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