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Trump Guilty

Priller said:
Edit: I should add that Democrats often rely heavily on mobilising the youth vote. The polling of under-30 voters shows a heavy majority who have sympathy the the plight of Palestine, and this is going to kill Biden. The Genocide Joe moniker is going to stick.
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Most.. if not all... of them know it would be worse for the Palestinians with Trump as President vs Biden.
A lot of people won't be voting for Biden.. they'll be voting against Trump.
 
Trump in 2016: “She shouldn’t be allowed to run...If she wins, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. In that situation, we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and, ultimately, a criminal trial. It would grind government to a halt.”
 
Priller said:
Except then Biden mobilised his voters with people who'd had enough of Trump's particular brand of crazy and just wanted some old-school stability. The same ones who stayed home because Hillary didn't inspire anything except indifference at best and revulsion at worst. And enough Trump voters stayed home against Biden because of the endless chaos of his term. My bet is both sides stay home in record numbers, but that Trump's base is more committed than Biden's, especially after four years of being relentlessly rage-farmed.

The weird thing is that the choice will change very little domestically on a fundamental level (assuming he doesn't actually tear down the foundations of democracy in the US, which is always possible). Where it will be most immediately and acutely felt is in conflict zones overseas, as Trump will almost certainly abandon Ukraine and send trillions to Israel. Aside from the obvious immediate humanitarian consequences of those decisions, it'll also help cement China as a bigger global player than the US, and make the US even more isolated as places like Europe will be forced to operate without US help. Maybe that's in some ways a good thing, but I can't help but feel that the devil you know is at least more predictable...

Edit: I should add that Democrats often rely heavily on mobilising the youth vote. The polling of under-30 voters shows a heavy majority who have sympathy the the plight of Palestine, and this is going to kill Biden. The Genocide Joe moniker is going to stick.
Click to expand...

There’s one other big thing that will bring out voters. Roe v Wade. The midterms showed what that has done to republicans.
 
raginduck said:
Most.. if not all... of them know it would be worse for the Palestinians with Trump as President vs Biden.
A lot of people won't be voting for Biden.. they'll be voting against Trump.
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A lot of people will also say one thing now and do another when it comes time to actually vote. That’s the message from a political professor that I was watching last night. When it comes down to it many will choose the lesser of two dementias.
 
raginduck said:
Most.. if not all... of them know it would be worse for the Palestinians with Trump as President vs Biden.
A lot of people won't be voting for Biden.. they'll be voting against Trump.
Click to expand...
Believe me, if it were a purely pragmatic choice, this would make sense. Lesser of two evils, etc. But considering the state of Gaza at the moment, and how the Netanyahu government seems to be operating carte blanche anyway, that's hardly a reason to motivate voters to go and stand in line to tick a box for the guy you hate *slightly* less. Not to mention a desire to punish a guy who you see as paying lip service to doing the right thing, but still very much supporting the wrong thing. At least the one thing Trump is honest about is his love of brutal governments and leaders.

There's also a sense in the Muslim world that the status quo that Biden represents only equals a slower but still inevitable strangling of Palestine while paying lip service to human rights and democracy, etc. Settlement building continues unabated with Biden in office. Trump at least means blowing up the status quo, reducing the US position in the world, and that short term pain could mean long term gain. I would counter-argue that Trump accelerated normalising relations between the rich Arab monarchies of the Middle East and Israel, which is very bad news for Palestinian statehood, but perhaps those countries won't be able to contain the outrage of their respective populations if Israel continues to operate unchecked.

jc100 said:
There’s one other big thing that will bring out voters. Roe v Wade. The midterms showed what that has done to republicans.
Click to expand...

I hope so, but the cynic in me thinks the goldfish memory of the average voter is so overwhelmed with things to be outraged by that the date of expiry has passed for that topic to actually get people out to vote in meaningful numbers. The polling is all now showing Trump with a lead in the places that matter, and it's growing daily.
 
Priller said:
Believe me, if it were a purely pragmatic choice, this would make sense. Lesser of two evils, etc. But considering the state of Gaza at the moment, and how the Netanyahu government seems to be operating carte blanche anyway, that's hardly a reason to motivate voters to go and stand in line to tick a box for the guy you hate *slightly* less. Not to mention a desire to punish a guy who you see as paying lip service to doing the right thing, but still very much supporting the wrong thing. At least the one thing Trump is honest about is his love of brutal governments and leaders.

There's also a sense in the Muslim world that the status quo that Biden represents only equals a slower but still inevitable strangling of Palestine while paying lip service to human rights and democracy, etc. Settlement building continues unabated with Biden in office. Trump at least means blowing up the status quo, reducing the US position in the world, and that short term pain could mean long term gain. I would counter-argue that Trump accelerated normalising relations between the rich Arab monarchies of the Middle East and Israel, which is very bad news for Palestinian statehood, but perhaps those countries won't be able to contain the outrage of their respective populations if Israel continues to operate unchecked.



I hope so, but the cynic in me thinks the goldfish memory of the average voter is so overwhelmed with things to be outraged by that the date of expiry has passed for that topic to actually get people out to vote in meaningful numbers. The polling is all now showing Trump with a lead in the places that matter, and it's growing daily.
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Something something wrath of a woman….I know for sure my wife has a very long memory when I **** up.
 
jc100 said:
This…is what hands Biden the election. Aside from the lunatic fringe, most decent people don’t want any of this crap going on in their country.
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The entire "lunatic" left were supporting riots the whole 4 years while Trump was in office, and they still won the election. I guess there aren't many decent people in that country.
 
klr_guy said:
Trump in 2016: “She shouldn’t be allowed to run...If she wins, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. In that situation, we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and, ultimately, a criminal trial. It would grind government to a halt.”
Click to expand...

Quintessential thee not me.
 
Trump has recently come out against Netanyahu

time.com

Trump: Netanyahu ‘Rightfully’ Criticized for Oct. 7

In an interview, Trump is sharply critical of Netanyahu and believes others in Israel could replace him.
time.com time.com

He also brokered historic deals between Israel and many Islamic nations, and avoided escalating American involvement in the middle east during the height of ISIS. Not a trump fan but his middle east record isn't terrible compared with Biden.
 
What was Trump actually convicted of doing? Never get a clear answer on the News. Something about giving money to a woman to keep their relationship a secret?
 
justride said:
What was Trump actually convicted of doing? Never get a clear answer on the News. Something about giving money to a woman to keep their relationship a secret?
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..so that the story wouldn’t influence potential voters in the 2016 election.
 
woot said:
Trump has recently come out against Netanyahu

time.com

Trump: Netanyahu ‘Rightfully’ Criticized for Oct. 7

In an interview, Trump is sharply critical of Netanyahu and believes others in Israel could replace him.
time.com time.com

He also brokered historic deals between Israel and many Islamic nations, and avoided escalating American involvement in the middle east during the height of ISIS. Not a trump fan but his middle east record isn't terrible compared with Biden.
Click to expand...

No..Trump orchestrated movement of the American Embassy to Jerusalem signalling a major shift in US policy against a divided capital for both Palestinians and Israelis. Basically a big FU to the Palestinians. Arguably, that also signalled to the Palestinians that they were well and truly alone. It made things 10x worse.
 
Seven years ago at this time Kathy Griffin took that picture.
 
woot said:
Trump has recently come out against Netanyahu

time.com

Trump: Netanyahu ‘Rightfully’ Criticized for Oct. 7

In an interview, Trump is sharply critical of Netanyahu and believes others in Israel could replace him.
time.com time.com

He also brokered historic deals between Israel and many Islamic nations, and avoided escalating American involvement in the middle east during the height of ISIS. Not a trump fan but his middle east record isn't terrible compared with Biden.
Click to expand...

Trump isn't supporting moderate Israeli voices, though. He's advocating replacing Netanyahu with even more religious extremist politicians like Galant, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. The kind who don't even pretend to be democratic, but are explicit about their theocratic belief in Israel as God-given and the nation being God's chosen people.

And the 'deal brokering' was spending billions in US money, as well as offering access to US military equipment, to entice the autocratic Arab monarchies to set aside the will of their subjects to normalise relations with Israel. If that's peace, then I guess it's a version, even if it involves forcible displacement and killing of millions for the benefit of a subsect of a religion.

As for ISIS, that was a spent force long before Trump took office. It had served its purpose and was being wound down. Didn't stop him from taking credit, though.

jc100 said:
No..Trump orchestrated movement of the American Embassy to Jerusalem signalling a major shift in US policy against a divided capital for both Palestinians and Israelis. Basically a big FU to the Palestinians. Arguably, that also signalled to the Palestinians that they were well and truly alone. It made things 10x worse.
Click to expand...

Which is also a big gift to the evangelical right in the US, who believe that in order to trigger the second coming, Israel must have full control of Jerusalem. The fact that two profoundly religious movements (Zionism and US evangelism) have managed to paint their opponents as the religious extremists and themselves as secular democrats is an incredible feat of PR.

Anyway, we derail. Nothing to do with Trump breaking US law...
 
I AM NOT A CROOK!


Donald.jpg
 
jc100 said:
There’s one other big thing that will bring out voters. Roe v Wade. The midterms showed what that has done to republicans.
Click to expand...
I don't think that will be as big at the federal level now. It took a little time, but voters and the media now understand abortion laws are legislated at the state level.

This fall...

"It’s the economy, stupid."
James Carvelle. 1992
 
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