people with guns can generally kill more people than those without.....that's simple too.
Shooting in Connecticut
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people with guns can generally kill more people than those without.....that's simple too.
stevex
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Similar atrocities, but does any "civilized" country in the world come close to the USA in terms of the amout of these attacks on innocents? It certainly doesn't appear that way.
I don't pretend to have all the answers, and for the record, I do NOT believe in taking away all guns as if its the miracle cure... I just think that when you have in almost all of these cases, people who just "snap"..... and there is a readily available weapon capable of killing so easily, well, it just ups the body count and frequency. Obviously, if there is REAL fore thought, planning, strategy.... any one who is determined and sick enough stands a good chance of doing what they set out to do. I cannot argue that. I can argue that the joe blow sicko who pops his top (I don't know if that is the case in this particular incident) will grab the nearest available weapon (his trusty 9), not take the time and effort to order 2 tons of ammonium nitrate, rent a van, and rig whatever detonator is required, and blow himself to bits.
I believe in stricter gun control, which as pointed out, will not SOLVE, but will certainly MITIGATE the frequency... its just straight numbers. Any measure, as long as it reduces the amount of innocent lives lost, is a step in the right direction.
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Not sure that's strictly true. Bombs made by amateurs aren't the most stable things in the world.
stevex
Well-known member
Plenty of those IEDs blow up in the bomb makers faces.... or never blow up at all. A simple pipe bomb is easy to make I'm sure, but doesn't come close in terms of killing effectiveness as a competent shooter with a handgun and 50 rounds. This isn't IRAQ, finding skilled bomb makers and the proper components/explosives to create bombs simply isn't on the same level of ease as buying a gun from a store and walking into a mall and going postal.
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and injured over 800 with a bomb made from diesel and fertilizer... both of which canadian tire sells... they will even sell you the containers to mix it in and store the diesel... 19 of those 168 were children.
it is quite easy, i remember kids in highschool making gunpowder. diesel fertilizer bombs are quite stable, their users are not http://bit.ly/RuTSyX
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/materials-fertilizer-bombs-not-regulated
stevex
Well-known member
Try buying that amount of ammonium nitrate now, and see how fast the FBI or RCMP are knocking on your door.
He was also ex-military with explosives training.
If making bombs is so easy, why aren't people blowing up schools and churches and malls instead of shooting them up?
The argument that if we take guns away, everyone's going to turn into the Unibomber is ridiculous.
not quite, unfortunately.
people use guns now, yes because they are available. If they weren't they may start using fertilizer/diesel bombs. they may start using katanas or machete's. it's what's available. the bottom line is to vilify gun ownership after such a tragedy is an emotional knee jerk reaction because it's more tangible. the solution is simply not more regulation.
a lot of these rampage killers, what they do is actually thought out. they're methodical. they know what they're doing. Look at Mark Lepine, Columbine, Dawson College, the shooting in Germany, the shootings in the UK.
unfortunately, they're not quite the raving mad lunatics we like to think of them as being.
just because they are insane doesn't make them stupid, just dangerous
I don't think you understand the argument. So what if you can't make large amounts of ANFO anymore? A creative mind can easily craft a destructive device out of something else. They won't bother looking at what is not available to them, they will simply to look as to what IS.
But that's just it: these guys we call "nut jobs" aren't exactly "insane". Emotionally disturbed, yes. Insane, no. They have not lost their grip on reality. They know what they're doing is wrong and are doing it anyways. They have chosen a horrific and incomprehensible course of action, but they do so methodically, knowing full well what they are doing.
Honestly, I find that more chilling.
why does that propaganda say West Germany? That hasn't existed since what.... 1989?
Look at all those countries and what do they have in common? They are MUCH more socialist than the States. Gun, gun, gun.... it's the society that produces those numbers. How many are gang related? I would hazard to guess easily in the 90% range. Also, what are the population numbers for each country in comparison?
SFer
Well-known member
There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[4] The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[5] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths
Firearm Homicides per capita 100,000
USA - 2.98 = 9,368 population 311mil
Canada - 0.76 = 258 pop 34mil
Japan - 0.02 = 25 pop 128mil
Switzerland - 0.58
France - 0.06
New Zealand - 0.17
GB - 0.03
Germany - 1.10
Etc
Etc
Accidental gun deaths
US - 0.27 = 840
Can - 0.22 = 75
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Firearm Homicides per capita 100,000
USA - 2.98 = 9,368 population 311mil
Canada - 0.76 = 258 pop 34mil
Japan - 0.02 = 25 pop 128mil
Switzerland - 0.58
France - 0.06
New Zealand - 0.17
GB - 0.03
Germany - 1.10
Etc
Etc
Accidental gun deaths
US - 0.27 = 840
Can - 0.22 = 75
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
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Dig a little deaper.......Detroit has the highest murders by far, its because of social issues, high unemployment, drugs, gangs etc etc.
Some cities in the usa are similar to Canadian cities. Places like Detroit tend to skew results for the whole country.
What are you talking about? Pulling your 'facts' out of you know where?
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts-faits/index-eng.htm
Yes, that 'kid' was not a friend with his head a bit. But yes, there were guns in the house, which he had free access to.
Shhhh.... it's only because of guns, nothing else.
If all you banners keep calling for everything to be done away with all the time you won't have a motorcycle. It's a slippery slope to argue what others need and dont need. Before the ban solution I wish they would start arming teachers and see if that works as a deterrant to these kinds of massacres. An armed society is generally a polite society and I doubt people like this would prey on the weak if they knew someone was there ready to blast back.
Guns in in the US are used defensively between 100,000 and 2.5 million times a year depending on which statistic you believe. That is far greater than the death toll.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinion/frum-guns-safer/index.html
I don't believe arming teachers is the answer. But I do know that security in our schools needs to be addressed. I have worked building/renovating schools for the past 20 years or so, all over Ontario. Some school boards have tighter security than others, but overall its a mess. Generally, teachers and support staff are not trained in what to do in emergency situations. The code red programs that some boards have in place are a complete joke.
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