M2 exit course and test | Page 5 | GTAMotorcycle.com

M2 exit course and test

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I understand the merits of correcting "bad habits" by taking an M2 exit with a school.

But i also understand that a particular rider could have been riding like that with the "bad habits" for the past five years under the current system.

Shorten down the 5 years grace period, ramp up the M1 exit course to make it much more harder to pass. The amount of riders that have pulled a rabbit out of the hat on Sunday testing and are out riding on the roads when they shouldn't be is probably staggering.
 
Sushii said:
I don't see how decreasing the amount of time will increase a riders ability or make the rider a better rider.
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Why do you need five years grace period? And for what, so you can get your M licence and legally have a beer while riding. Makes no sense. If you don't possess the skills to pass a Ministry test within a two year period then you shouldn't be riding full stop.
 
I would also agree that the system could use some adjustments. Perhaps a graduated displacement system would work better.

I also agree that 5 years is a too long. I think 2 might be too short, but 3 or 4(max) would definitely be better. That said, many riders only ride for recreation, so they may be putting on very little mileage each year. I also agree that many riders leave the M1X course and do not have the skills or confidence to safely navigate some of our streets. As said, it's not the instructor's fault - it's the way the system is st up.

My experience: When I took the M1X course at RTI, I observed some folks that were good riders with plenty of previous dirtbike experience - these folks picked up the necessary skills and passed very easily. They might be at a disadvantage with a graduated displacement system. Myself, I had never been on a bike before, and was one of those folks that passed, but should not have been let out on the roads. I knew it then too. I could barely navigate a normal right turn or left turn, let alone in traffic, and God forbid from a stopped position on a hill. I learned on Suzuki 400cc standard in the course and 3 months later bought a Honda 450 Nighthawk, so the bikes were quite similar. That 3 months gap meant I forgot a lot of what I learned in the course, so it's tough to say if that was the biggest reason, or if I was just incompetent even right after passing the test. I decided (right or wrong) to only ride at night on well lit streets downtown, when there wasn't a lot of traffic and so I became very comfortable in a short period of time without putting myself or others at risk.

Re: M2X course - I took it through Humber at Hershey center. By that time I had logged about 200k on my bikes and would have passed at the Ministry no problem. I decided to take the course anyways just for the previously mentioned points about having a third party observe my riding skills in traffic and give pointers as to where I could improve. I have taken the Total Control course and read many books, but I found those are oriented to only improve my body position and technique while navigating turns and so forth. The M2X course focused on entirely different issues (traffic habits) which at the end of the day made me a better rider. I commute about 40k a year and much of it is on traffic infested streets - increasing my awareness of traffic patterns and being criticized for the things I am getting lazy about helps. If money was an issue, or if my goals were different, then I would have just taken the test at the Ministry and spent the saved coin elsewhere.
 
Jayv said:
Why do you need five years grace period? And for what, so you can get your M licence and legally have a beer while riding. Makes no sense. If you don't possess the skills to pass a Ministry test within a two year period then you shouldn't be riding full stop.
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Majority of the people don't take it within 2 years because there is no point in doing it ASAP as it doesn't even affect your insurance (unlike G2 > G). It is not because they are not confident or do not posses the skills. Just because you have a M does not mean you are a better rider than someone who posses a M2.
 
OP. If you want to save money and hopefully pass on the first couple tries to save money, do it. I'm sure the advocates of going MTO will not ridicule you for not being good enough, and may just help you pay for your next retest - just because they're so worried about you passing with a badge of honour.

If you want to save your time and increase the odds of passing, take a course - it's never a bad idea to get your skills a touch higher than someone that didn't take it.

I mean, we all can't be superstar riders and only know the best of the best and apply everything you've ever read in a safety or skills manual, but maybe you can...what do i know?


I'm sure you can attest to many of the riders you see on the road today demonstrating habits that'll ensure you fail miserably. Imagine you've ridden with these people over your five year term. You think you didn't pick those habits up yourself?

Do the math.

MTO - badge of honour for saying you didn't overspend or have someone hold your hand (love that line). - if you pass, good on you.
School - no badge of honour - more skills learned or existing skills sharpened - save time as you'll likely pass the first time (they teach what you need to know).

It's no secret which I advocate, but then again, I see stupidity all over the road in this scene and bad attitudes, that I'l always encourage someone to take the responsible route.
 
So - to all you experienced riders out there - what's the best possible way to get into riding for someone that has an M1?
 
e90 said:
So - to all you experienced riders out there - what's the best possible way to get into riding for someone that has an M1?
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M1=Course

M2= Dunno, I took the test without any problems. I think we all know what our bad habits are. It was a ***** trying to look left and right always have your hand on the handle bars at a stop, blocking position, etc.....if someone can't do those then some people are just not meant to ride....
 
e90 said:
So - to all you experienced riders out there - what's the best possible way to get into riding for someone that has an M1?
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Ride parking lots & neighborhood streets, when u are comfortable ride city roads. Then highway.

I did pretty well doing that

Sent from my Phone, dont judge the grammar
 
I thought you just couldn't go on 400 series highways with an M1. Around here there's lots of "King's Highways" that I rode on with my M1.
 
The counter-argument isn't that you should only go to the MTO test to be cool and respected on a forum, or that you'd learn nothing in the M2 -> M course. (Since 'being cool' is what it's all about, especially on GTAM.)

The argument is that there are better, more effective methods of training for that $300-400 - especially if you took an introductory course to get the M2 originally. A guided track day school, or something like Lee Parks' Total Control, would be more effective.

Personally, I think I'd do better learning to corner, pick lines and handle the bike rather than getting a few reminders on a group ride about putting feet down at a stop, checking mirrors more, shifting to neutral every stop, etc. These habits are important for sure, but they were covered well in my intro course and mostly stuck, and I could probably study them well enough to pass my M2.

It's your money and your life.

JFD said:
OP. If you want to save money and hopefully pass on the first couple tries to save money, do it. I'm sure the advocates of going MTO will not ridicule you for not being good enough, and may just help you pay for your next retest - just because they're so worried about you passing with a badge of honour.

If you want to save your time and increase the odds of passing, take a course - it's never a bad idea to get your skills a touch higher than someone that didn't take it.

I mean, we all can't be superstar riders and only know the best of the best and apply everything you've ever read in a safety or skills manual, but maybe you can...what do i know?


I'm sure you can attest to many of the riders you see on the road today demonstrating habits that'll ensure you fail miserably. Imagine you've ridden with these people over your five year term. You think you didn't pick those habits up yourself?

Do the math.

MTO - badge of honour for saying you didn't overspend or have someone hold your hand (love that line). - if you pass, good on you.
School - no badge of honour - more skills learned or existing skills sharpened - save time as you'll likely pass the first time (they teach what you need to know).

It's no secret which I advocate, but then again, I see stupidity all over the road in this scene and bad attitudes, that I'l always encourage someone to take the responsible route.
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Is it easier for someone coming from driving six speed cagers into the transition to two wheels? Or does it not matter and is something I shouldn't rely on?
 
honduhmatic said:
The argument is that there are better, more effective methods of training for that $300-400 - especially if you took an introductory course to get the M2 originally. A guided track day school, or something like Lee Parks' Total Control, would be more effective.
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Exactly.
 
Jayv said:
Why do you need five years grace period? And for what, so you can get your M licence and legally have a beer while riding. Makes no sense. If you don't possess the skills to pass a Ministry test within a two year period then you shouldn't be riding full stop.
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2 years of G2 driving, yes. That's 24 months of driving in all conditions.

2 Years with an M2 is between 6 and 12 months. Not enough time to master it. The mandatory waiting period is well done imo.
 
e90 said:
Is it easier for someone coming from driving six speed cagers into the transition to two wheels? Or does it not matter and is something I shouldn't rely on?
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I would say the only benefit from driving a manual is that you already understand how to shift and what the clutch is used for. Although you might carry over some bad habits.

e.g. Coasting to a stop with the clutch engaged and then downshifting to 1 rather than progressively shift down to match the speed and rpm of the vehicle. << Not everyone does this on a manual car but the ones i know do.
 
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e90 said:
So - to all you experienced riders out there - what's the best possible way to get into riding for someone that has an M1?
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My instructors told our class that we'd be more likely to get into an accident in the first few years. With that in mind wear ATGATT. You got a 250 already? Perfect, practice, practice, practice. Just ride! Since everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, practice what you're weak at - go find a parking lot and practice those tight turns, practice looking at where you are going. Book a M1 exist course at a reputable place - this course is worth the $ (IMHO). After you pass, you get your M2 for 5 years, practice some more, lots more. Practice good habits.

There is plenty of info online if you're not sure how to improve one aspect of your riding or another (not saying all info is good so be selective). Keep learning. I learn stuff all the time while riding, every time I make a little mistake, I try to learn from it.

If you haven't seen it watch [video=youtube_share;eqQBubilSXU]http://youtu.be/eqQBubilSXU[/video]. If nothing else, at least you'll understand why cagers pull out in front of bikers.

Did I mention practice? Then when you're ready, take the M2 exit test or course, which ever you like. Taking the course nearly guarantees your passing at a high cost, the other you might pass or you might have to take a 2nd time (much cheaper even if you have to take it a few times). As mentioned you can see online what they test for, so you know what to practice for (this is free btw). Again your choice which you do. We may not all agree on if the course is worth the $, but I think we would all agree that you keep learning as a rider, there is no such thing as too much riding knowledge.

Ride safe.
 
e90 said:
Is it easier for someone coming from driving six speed cagers into the transition to two wheels? Or does it not matter and is something I shouldn't rely on?
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Having experience with a clutch will help, for sure. But there's differences - motorcyclists 'ride' the clutch a lot more, and being uneasy with the clutch on a bike could cause you to low-speed bail. (Worse than just a 'lurch' in a car.)

L84toff had a really good post. Practicing and concentrating on riding will help. I'd suggest back roads and off-peak times to learn. Once you have some experience and confidence (later in your first season?), try a group ride with more experienced riders. (Pick the right riders!)
 
I started on my bike in stages. 2 months after I did my M1 exit course, I bought a bike, i knew I wasn't ready to commute to work (25km one way through city traffic). Rode it every night after I got home from work and early morning on weekends. Started out in my neighbourhood, small streets with lots of stop signs. Every night I'd extend my distance and expand my riding area. When I felt I was ready for traffic, I went out after dinner, drove around my neighbourhood for 1 hr making sure I hit traffic lights and light traffic and this led me to highways. Highways I did once very early on a weekend, went up and down 404 and 401. i think after 15 rides i felt I could handle early morning rush hour to work. I did that 5 times before I winterized the bike.

Is a reputable course a good idea? Yes. Being arrogant and thinking you know it all is no way to do it, in bike riding or in life.

I am not a spring chicken so i know my limitations. I and my family have too much to lose if I mess up and crash. With that in mind, i think the more quality courses you can take the better. That total control course sounds awesome and I am sure I will take it at some point. Taking the M2 exit course or another course like it is not about having your hand held, it is about getting all the instruction you can get so you can be prepared and if you do get into an accident it won't be because you failed to do something but more because another person didn't do what they were supposed to do.
 
noob_in_mid_age said:
I am not a spring chicken so i know my limitations. I and my family have too much to lose if I mess up and crash. With that in mind, i think the more quality courses you can take the better. That total control course sounds awesome and I am sure I will take it at some point. Taking the M2 exit course or another course like it is not about having your hand held, it is about getting all the instruction you can get so you can be prepared and if you do get into an accident it won't be because you failed to do something but more because another person didn't do what they were supposed to do.
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There is ALWAYS something you could of done differently to prevent an accident. Car make a left infront of you? You should of slowed down/been more cautious. Car merges into your lane, ontop of you? You should of been paying more attention to what traffic around you is doing.

There is never an accident where there is literally NOTHING you could of done to avoid it. Unless its some freak accident like space debris falling from the sky, or a tree branch falling down infront of you without warning, etc. With a few exceptions... there's is really nothing you can do if someone coming the opposite direction swerves into your lane at the last second.

The whole idea of motorcycle safety is to expect the unexpected. Expect car drivers to do **** they're not supposed to do. And that is what you're supposed to do, so if you're not expecting them to do the unexpected then you're doing it wrong.
If you crash, learn from it. Think "what could I of done to avoid it." If you get it implanted into your head that it was completely 100% the drivers fault just because insurance said so, you'll have learnt nothing.

However, I do agree taking an advanced course is to help you get every bit of knowledge you can out of everyone you can to make yourself a better rider.
And sorry if I might of misread your intentions.
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