M2 exit course and test

[ZX600]

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OP. If you want to save money and hopefully pass on the first couple tries to save money, do it. I'm sure the advocates of going MTO will not ridicule you for not being good enough, and may just help you pay for your next retest - just because they're so worried about you passing with a badge of honour.

If you want to save your time and increase the odds of passing, take a course - it's never a bad idea to get your skills a touch higher than someone that didn't take it.

I mean, we all can't be superstar riders and only know the best of the best and apply everything you've ever read in a safety or skills manual, but maybe you can...what do i know?


I'm sure you can attest to many of the riders you see on the road today demonstrating habits that'll ensure you fail miserably. Imagine you've ridden with these people over your five year term. You think you didn't pick those habits up yourself?

Do the math.

MTO - badge of honour for saying you didn't overspend or have someone hold your hand (love that line). - if you pass, good on you.
School - no badge of honour - more skills learned or existing skills sharpened - save time as you'll likely pass the first time (they teach what you need to know).

It's no secret which I advocate, but then again, I see stupidity all over the road in this scene and bad attitudes, that I'l always encourage someone to take the responsible route.

An M license is not a "badge of honour" it is a legal requirement to ride a motorcycle after a period of having your m2 for 5 years.

Let's define a habit "habit an action or pattern of behavior that is repeated so often that it becomes typical of somebody".
Taking an M2 exit course will do nothing for your bad habits, there isn't enough repetition for you to transform your habits from bad to good.

Only you can for the duration of the test, be self aware of your bad habits and correct them for that period of time, long enough to pass the test.

Now, if you don't know road signs or the driving laws and for these reasons you can not pass the test at the MTO, then I would suggest you have no place riding on the streets anyways. In this case, then you would need to be "hand held" through the process of passing your M2 exit test.

Question is, how comfortable are you passing a test that reviews your ability of riding a motorcycle on the street? without having a bunch of people dedicate a bunch of time with you on a course that is made to guide you through the process of passing the test and not really teach you anything that you should already know.

There is a reason why the car driving schools are not 2 days, they go over weeks teaching young students "good habits" and the laws of the roads, those courses unlike the m2 exit course are designed to teach not to "just pass"

Let me put it in a more simple way. If you don't have the ability and the confidence of passing the M2 exit exam through the MTO, you have no business riding on the street. After all, isn't that the reason the test exists? If you don't pass it means you are not qualified...nothing to do with badges of honour

 

[Dougy]

If you've actually survived riding the gta streets for two years the mto should just hand you the m license.

Yes I'm being serious

 

[noob_in_mid_age]

.......Let me put it in a more simple way. If you don't have the ability and the confidence of passing the M2 exit exam through the MTO, you have no business riding on the street. After all, isn't that the reason the test exists? If you don't pass it means you are not qualified...nothing to do with badges of honour

I don't believe it is about confidence, we are all confident after riding or driving for several years. Ask any driver if they think they are good drivers and they'll say yes. We build bad habits and if we are not told it is wrong then we will continue with them. It is not about hand holding, it is about fixing our bad habits. I may drive, ride, for several years and never get into and accident then go and fail the test because the tester picked up on my deficiencies. How many drivers, or cagers as this community calls them, do you see on the road that you think should be re-trained. Stop them and ask them if they think they are bad drivers, 9 out of 10 will probably say no, they are not bad drivers.

I think there should be mandatory re-training and a written test for all drivers after a period of time (say 10-20 yrs), it shouldn't just be one test when you're 16 and off you go for your entire life; traffic changes from decade to decade and drivers should be made aware of these changes. Today, more and more people are beginning to ride 2 or 3 wheel vehicles, and "cagers" need to be made aware of them, they need to be able to spot them, know what to look for.

 

[Dougy]

^^^

If a person has been driving for multiple years,and hasn't been in a serious accident,had numerous tickets,or run in's with the law I think it is fair to say that person is a good driver and does not need to be tested endlessly.

 

[noob_in_mid_age]

just because that driver has not been in an accident does not mean he/she is good in all aspects of driving. Maybe he/she hasn't been in an accident but they may have caused an accident by darting into traffic and cutting off a rider or another driver, making them get into a fender bender, while he/she drives away oblivious to it. Perhaps they tailgate. There are any number of bad habits that would make a driver a less than good driver. Just because you haven't been in an accident or received tickets does not automatically make you a good driver. This also goes towards motorcycle riders, riding in and out of traffic, in between cars, they may also cause an accident behind them and be oblivious to the fact.

 

[mikbusa]

^^^

If a person has been driving for multiple years,and hasn't been in a serious accident,had numerous tickets,or run in's with the law I think it is fair to say that person is a good driver and does not need to be tested endlessly.

Or they don't drive/ride much and just haven't been nailed when they goof up, yet. Time is only 1 factor in acquiring skills, seat time is right up there too. I did my M2 exit course with people who have been riding for decades longer than I had, but were not impressive when rolling. At the start, the instructor asked how many km people rode the previous year, the group averaged around 2000, their jaws dropped when I said 15,000, and that isn't a huge amount. Ideally you should have a reasonable distance documented before full G or M, but that will never happen.

 

[Dougy]

just because that driver has not been in an accident does not mean he/she is good in all aspects of driving. Maybe he/she hasn't been in an accident but they may have caused an accident by darting into traffic and cutting off a rider or another driver, making them get into a fender bender, while he/she drives away oblivious to it. Perhaps they tailgate. There are any number of bad habits that would make a driver a less than good driver. Just because you haven't been in an accident or received tickets does not automatically make you a good driver. This also goes towards motorcycle riders, riding in and out of traffic, in between cars, they may also cause an accident behind them and be oblivious to the fact.

Tailgating and dangerous driving are not things anyone does obliviously(bad habits as you described in your earlier post)and it is the job of the police to catch tode things,I'm very doubtful anyone would do those things on an mto test..
and i must say,I think your really grasping at the kitties titties with that argument

 

[Dougy]

Or they don't drive/ride much and just haven't been nailed when they goof up, yet. Time is only 1 factor in acquiring skills, seat time is right up there too. I did my M2 exit course with people who have been riding for decades longer than I had, but were not impressive when rolling. At the start, the instructor asked how many km people rode the previous year, the group averaged around 2000, their jaws dropped when I said 15,000, and that isn't a huge amount. Ideally you should have a reasonable distance documented before full G or M, but that will never happen.

I agree with this and I'm actually pretty surprised that the average in your group was 2000 km

 

[Lunatic]

I can't begin to tell you the number of times I've met a rider who says "I've been riding for 20 years!" and my first thought on seeing them actually ride is "Then why do you ride like S***?"

Even mileage is not enough. I teach both here in Toronto and up north in Petawawa, and one of the things I always talk to my students up there about is practising slow speed and traffic manoeuvres. Many riders in rural or low population areas never really get proficient at riding in traffic and at slow speeds because they can pull out of their driveways and not see another vehicle or stop sign for long time. When you put that rider in heavy traffic in Toronto or Montreal they don't handle it well.

 

[noob_in_mid_age]

Tailgating and dangerous driving are not things anyone does obliviously(bad habits as you described in your earlier post)and it is the job of the police to catch tode things,I'm very doubtful anyone would do those things on an mto test..
and i must say,I think your really grasping at the kitties titties with that argument

We are what we repeatedly do.....if you tailgate during two years of driving and go and do your test then yes, it is very possible that you will do that. These are just two examples and I am sure there are a myriad more.

You have to agree that re-training or refreshers are not a bad thing. Making drivers more aware of motorcycles is also not a bad thing.

 

[DRZSMDUDE]

Id skip the exit course and buy my bike something nice. There is a 3 part vid on youtube of a guy that gopro'd his test, with some notes along the way. Check it out.

D

 

[Baggsy]

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

[Dougy]

I can't begin to tell you the number of times I've met a rider who says "I've been riding for 20 years!" and my first thought on seeing them actually ride is "Then why do you ride like S***?"

Even mileage is not enough. I teach both here in Toronto and up north in Petawawa, and one of the things I always talk to my students up there about is practising slow speed and traffic manoeuvres. Many riders in rural or low population areas never really get proficient at riding in traffic and at slow speeds because they can pull out of their driveways and not see another vehicle or stop sign for long time. When you put that rider in heavy traffic in Toronto or Montreal they don't handle it well.

I think a large number of those people are just full of *****.I too have heard many say "oh yeah man ,I've been riding this long,and that long".

Their are ahuge amount of people who should never be given a motorcycle license to begin with

 

[Dougy]

We are what we repeatedly do.....if you tailgate during two years of driving and go and do your test then yes, it is very possible that you will do that. These are just two examples and I am sure there are a myriad more.

You have to agree that re-training or refreshers are not a bad thing. Making drivers more aware of motorcycles is also not a bad thing.

I gotta be honest here man,the logic is your posts is just rediculous,and this is the last one I'm responding to.

 

[Dougy]

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

Couldn't agree more ,great post !!!

 

[ZX600]

I don't believe it is about confidence, we are all confident after riding or driving for several years. Ask any driver if they think they are good drivers and they'll say yes. We build bad habits and if we are not told it is wrong then we will continue with them. It is not about hand holding, it is about fixing our bad habits. I may drive, ride, for several years and never get into and accident then go and fail the test because the tester picked up on my deficiencies. How many drivers, or cagers as this community calls them, do you see on the road that you think should be re-trained. Stop them and ask them if they think they are bad drivers, 9 out of 10 will probably say no, they are not bad drivers.

I think there should be mandatory re-training and a written test for all drivers after a period of time (say 10-20 yrs), it shouldn't just be one test when you're 16 and off you go for your entire life; traffic changes from decade to decade and drivers should be made aware of these changes. Today, more and more people are beginning to ride 2 or 3 wheel vehicles, and "cagers" need to be made aware of them, they need to be able to spot them, know what to look for.

I still don't see how does a course designed to help you pass the test can help with anything of what you said in here but maybe i'm just hard headed

 

[JFD]

This thread is astounding.

 

[rafiki911]

Most of the stuff in the course I was already doing but I was taught some extra checks which I do now while I'm riding so that helps with being more safe and not just passing the test. Most people doing the test were people that waited the full 5 years and barely rode in those five years, so for them it was more worth it cause it was a refresher and a chance to get rid of the bad habits.

I still enjoyed it and picked something up from it so in my eyes it wasn't a waste. Who cares really. It's just a preferance, do it or don't do it I'm not going to judge or call you names for it. Just like the January thread, not sure why people feel the need to put people down for something they wouldn't do.

 

[ZX600]

Most of the stuff in the course I was already doing but I was taught some extra checks which I do now while I'm riding so that helps with being more safe and not just passing the test. Most people doing the test were people that waited the full 5 years and barely rode in those five years, so for them it was more worth it cause it was a refresher and a chance to get rid of the bad habits.

I still enjoyed it and picked something up from it so in my eyes it wasn't a waste. Who cares really. It's just a preferance, do it or don't do it I'm not going to judge or call you names for it. Just like the January thread, not sure why people feel the need to put people down for something they wouldn't do.

So you learned a couple of things, but do you feel you had enough knowledge to pass the test if you didn't do the course?

I am honestly asking, not making a point

 

[noob_in_mid_age]

I still don't see how does a course designed to help you pass the test can help with anything of what you said in here but maybe i'm just hard headed

my original post was whether the M2 exit course was worth the money or is it better spent on another course; I keep harping on courses because in my line of business you not only learn from doing work but seminars and courses are used to expand knowledge and let you see avenues that you did not see before.

Like Rafiki said above, if you can take something away from a course then it was worth it. That's what I am hoping when the time comes. Yes, if I learned nothing then i'll feel scammed but I need to go in with an open mind.

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