Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

FullMotoJacket said:
MADD posters in the lobby, licensed bar on the 4th floor. Nice.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/05/24/19798201.html
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the optics are definitely bad on this one. . .

the do-as-i-say, not-as-i-do hypocrisy must be grating to beat cops, not to mention the public.

their justifications for this apparent double-standard are pretty weak as well. . .

as though the upper echelon cops couldn't just adjourn to any of the fine establishments within walking distance of the hq. . .
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

OpenGambit said:
yeah counterpoints are fine, but suggesting a preemptive strike isn't reasonable.

I don't side with the protestors, it doesn't mean I want the cops to go nuts.
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What is reasonable is subjective, and to you or I such a strike might not be. However, to those officers on the front line, taking the wind out of the more aggressive nature of the crowd by doing things that would cause the overall mood to change and thereby insuring a more peaceful, docile, crowd could be completely within boundaries of reason.

I do know for a fact that such methods have been used before under similar circumstances by other police forces in different countries (as I have various family members as both frontline police officers alongside more senior ranking members of said forces).

Of course, I neither agree nor disagree with the above, just putting it out there as a discussion peace moreso than to start any fights (don't think you construed it as such, OG, so I'm hoping no offence is taken given I like to chat about stuff like this - keeps the mind awake during the boring hours at work).

*shrugs*

But I agree with you, it shouldn't take the police going ballistic to insure a more peaceful process.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

dr_sarcasm said:
What is reasonable is subjective, and to you or I such a strike might not be. However, to those officers on the front line, taking the wind out of the more aggressive nature of the crowd by doing things that would cause the overall mood to change and thereby insuring a more peaceful, docile, crowd could be completely within boundaries of reason.

I do know for a fact that such methods have been used before under similar circumstances by other police forces in different countries (as I have various family members as both frontline police officers alongside more senior ranking members of said forces).

Of course, I neither agree nor disagree with the above, just putting it out there as a discussion peace moreso than to start any fights (don't think you construed it as such, OG, so I'm hoping no offence is taken given I like to chat about stuff like this - keeps the mind awake during the boring hours at work).

*shrugs*

But I agree with you, it shouldn't take the police going ballistic to insure a more peaceful process.
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I am not offended, and this isn't fighting.

Yes but other countries also roll tanks. Then have the audacity to claim that the military suffered more casualties than the protesters.

Canada isn't like that and shouldn't be, parameters of options are important because it defines the society we are in.

Devil's advocate is one thing, but going too far just makes it non-productive.
If you don't understand what i am saying, look at oilycreek's post re: protesters. That doesn't facilitate discussion, it stifles it.
A major problem around the world nowadays is that we have loud extreme views drowning out the moderate majorities. the world would benefit from more nuanced views, especially from people that make decisions.
 
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Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Views with nuance are unlikely, in a world where mindless extremism wins elections.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

The moderates sit on their hands and moo placidly like hindu cows. If they got involved in their own lives, I might agree that we should listen to them - but when they're not using their voices, that's not going to happen.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Shaman said:
The moderates sit on their hands and moo placidly like hindu cows. If they got involved in their own lives, I might agree that we should listen to them - but when they're not using their voices, that's not going to happen.
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As a moderate, I tried that. I got gang ignored. Can't win unless you're getting people all worked up, about nothing in particular. Makes one sit back and just worry about himself.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Shaman said:
The moderates sit on their hands and moo placidly like hindu cows. If they got involved in their own lives, I might agree that we should listen to them - but when they're not using their voices, that's not going to happen.
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The moderate message is that there is no calamity, no crisis, we just have to be honest with ourselves and make smart decisions and things will work out in the end. How is that message ever going to make the news or win votes?
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

fastar1 said:
The moderate message is that there is no calamity, no crisis, we just have to be honest with ourselves and make smart decisions and things will work out in the end. How is that message ever going to make the news or win votes?
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Or protect us from the politicians, who are not moderates?
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

well the politicans aren't moderates because moderates dont' vote enough.

And even if politicans aren't moderates that shouldn't keep anyone from thinking about issues and holding reasonable opinions.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Rob MacLennan said:
Views with nuance are unlikely, in a world where mindless extremism wins elections.
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I don't think that should stop any indivdual from holding well thought out views personally. That isn't about winning or losing, its about being a decent human being or not.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Shaman said:
Or protect us from the politicians, who are not moderates?
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Politicians can't survive as moderates because no one will listen to them. The average idiot voter has no patience or capacity to understand nuance, conditionalities, planning, uncertainty, or measured, tempered reactions. They want immediate answers and action that fits comfortably within their existing notions of how things work. People really are stupid, and politicians need their votes, so this is how that plays out.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

fastar1 said:
Politicians can't survive as moderates because no one will listen to them. The average idiot voter has no patience or capacity to understand nuance, conditionalities, planning, uncertainty, or measured, tempered reactions. They want immediate answers and action that fits comfortably within their existing notions of how things work. People really are stupid, and politicians need their votes, so this is how that plays out.
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i think you are correct, to a point.

the mushy middle that once dominated canadian politics (the red tories, the small l liberals) have been systematically disenfranchised by polarized politics. when the rhetoric gets amped up like it increasingly has been in the recent past, the moderate voters sense that cliched 'democracy deficit' pundits like to talk about, and that really flattens the vote turnout. our participatory democracy has steadily declined for decades.

when the two sides yell at each other in such calculated ways, only the rabid zealots are still listening. a lot of moderate canadians tune out, and drop out of the process.

add to that the vote suppression efforts, and we get what we get.

neither side wants to admit what is the truth--they fundamentally agree on almost all core economic and fiscal issues (only a difference of degrees, to be honest) and for the most part are all socially liberal.

throw a blanket over them and the dna is 99% the same. that's why people need new political calculators based on specific policy metrics to force any true differentiation between them. parse their platforms to the n-th degree and then you might get enough separation to delineate a vote for one party over another.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

OpenGambit said:
I don't think that should stop any indivdual from holding well thought out views personally. That isn't about winning or losing, its about being a decent human being or not.
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If things go down the bowl because of political extremism, then winning or losing becomes important. If people recognized said extremism for the pandering that it is, then it wouldn't be an issue.
 
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