Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Everything that happened at the G20 is now happening in Montreal. College kids with their eye shot out by a rubber bullet, cops beating people in the street. When are we going to stop this?
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Shaman said:
Everything that happened at the G20 is now happening in Montreal. College kids with their eye shot out by a rubber bullet, cops beating people in the street. When are we going to stop this?
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As soon as said college kids stop acting like destructive morons.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

DaveTheCanuck said:
As soon as said college kids stop acting like destructive morons.
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Bull! How do you know that they were? Because the mainstream news told you so? If 250,000 people (that's what there were, btw... not the "tens of thousands" the news reported) wanted to go wild and break stuff, do you really think any police force would stop them... or that there'd be anything left?

Try... TRY and use your brain.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Shaman said:
Bull! How do you know that they were? Because the mainstream news told you so? If 250,000 people (that's what there were, btw... not the "tens of thousands" the news reported) wanted to go wild and break stuff, do you really think any police force would stop them... or that there'd be anything left?

Try... TRY and use your brain.
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Devil's advocate: under the scenario you just proposed, you do realize that pre-emptive strikes by the police in order to cause fear and demoralize a huge crowd are exactly the tools they need to insure that said wildness never takes place (i.e. when you have that many people in one place, with unwanted elements in the crowd [read: hooligans], even trained riot cops get a little tense), yes?

Point being is that I don't think there's any sympathy (that I can see in any newspapers around the world, including the latest round of reporting from the likes of Al Jazeera - yay Twitter feeds) with student's plight in Quebec (very reminiscent of the student riots that happened in the U.K.).
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

I wouldn't even call it bully. After all, the protesters were blowing the bubbles at them in order to get a reaction. They got one.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

dr_sarcasm said:
Devil's advocate: under the scenario you just proposed, you do realize that pre-emptive strikes by the police in order to cause fear and demoralize a huge crowd are exactly the tools they need to insure that said wildness never takes place (i.e. when you have that many people in one place, with unwanted elements in the crowd [read: hooligans], even trained riot cops get a little tense), yes?
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No. What that does is escalate the issue to a degree of violence and chaos, and make the crowd belligerent. Which is what they seem to want, so that they can respond with the state-supported violence that their c-grader minds find easier to understand and act on. Professional police - like the Germans this week - would make sure that as long as there is no violence or crime, the people's right to dissent, dispute and protest is not infringed.

Point being is that I don't think there's any sympathy (that I can see in any newspapers around the world, including the latest round of reporting from the likes of Al Jazeera - yay Twitter feeds) with student's plight in Quebec (very reminiscent of the student riots that happened in the U.K.).
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And on this point, you couldn't be any more wrong. It's gone international, there are people from all over teh world declaring their solidarity.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

This cartoon describes the media treatment of G20 and many other similar events. It also paints the picture that those who rely on mainstream media to present the facts are going to see.

italian.jpg


20,000 cops paid and equipped with a billion dollars of taxpayer's money are not in the picture. They were apparently incapable of preventing a dozen hooligans from burning their cruisers and smashing store windows. All demonstrators were branded as violent, while the only acts of personal violence were committed by the police, almost exclusively against unarmed and peaceful protesters or even just bystanders / passers by.

Vandalism is not violence. You arrest vandals using minimum necessary force, not beat them up on the spot.

The whole G20 affair was a slap in the face of Toronto, planned, organized and orchestrated to have a maximum possible impact. It was Steven Harper showing those that didn't vote for him (majority in T.O.) that he can do to them whatever he wants. G8 was a show with the opposite goal - to pamper those that did vote for him. Both were paid by the taxpayers and neither did anything to improve the economy.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Shaman said:
And on this point, you couldn't be any more wrong. It's gone international, there are people from all over teh world declaring their solidarity.
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It's definitely gone international - but the tones in the stuff I read is mostly neutral towards the situation (however, most of my reading is based on the UK, Italian and some Middle-East papers, all of which is online, so of course YMMV).

What I read, is mostly shades of this: http://blogs.canoe.ca/lilleyspad/co...olberg-quebec-students-riot-i-hardly-noticed/ whereby the main themes are reiterated, but just in different languages:

1. Quebec tuition rates are the lowest in Canada;
2. Quebec is broke and needs to find revenue generating options (of which this is one);
3. Those protesting represent only 1/3 of students;
4. Quebec public opinion is behind both what Charest has proposed and is doing (with even Lucien Bouchard joining in the support for hikes);

As I said, most of what I read is mostly neutral (to the point of being dismissive - and I read all sorts of online columns, ranging from leftists to right-wing nuts).

Of course, none of this has anything to do with the whole police situation and how they're handling the protests (figured I'd just throw in my Devil's advocacy to incite another point of view).
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Maybe, but a "preemptive strike" is just another way of saying that people get punished before doing anything wrong.

This ain't minority report man.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

OpenGambit said:
Maybe, but a "preemptive strike" is just another way of saying that people get punished before doing anything wrong.

This ain't minority report man.
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As written, I was playing Devil's Advocate i.e. just presenting a potential secondary scenario (right or wrong), given that a great majority seems to be siding one group over the other (it's what makes a discussion interesting, rather than folks re-hashing the same thing for pages and pages).
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Just to show I'm impartial to where I get my news from (I quoted Canoe a.k.a. parent company to the Sun, etc.), here's a similar viewpoint presented in The Star (a bit of a read, but the gist is that Quebec students have this false sense of entitlement, and to some extent, there's very little sympathy to their "plight" which could be the basis as to the harsh methods being employed by police - something I cannot prove or disprove, AGAIN, just presenting a differing viewpoint): http://www.thestar.com/news/article...-turned-montreal-into-a-city-under-siege?bn=1

Are the methods being employed by police bordering on the harsh? Probably, but what other methods do they have at their disposal in order to bring 100 days (and counting) of disruption to an end? AGAIN, playing the Devil's Advocate here: Desperate times call for desperate measures...i.e. time to get tough.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

Rob MacLennan said:
Correction: UNlicensed bar.
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It states in the article that the LCBO confirmed that it IS licensed;

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/05/24/19798201.html said:
He has contacted the Liquor Control Board of Ontario who he said verified Toronto Police has an up to date liquor licence.
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Although further comments re; trained bartenders and food may muddy the waters there. Either way, I see how the optics are off and while the comment regarding the military is correct, the military doesn't fall under the same perceptual scrutiny.
 
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Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

coyo said:
It states in the article that the LCBO confirmed that it IS licensed;

Although further comments re; trained bartenders and food may muddy the waters there. Either way, I see how the optics are off and while the comment regarding the military is correct, the military doesn't fall under the same perceptual scrutiny.
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The licensing thing is contrary to what I've been hearing all morning, on the radio. If it is, then so be it. Seems to me though that, in order to be licensed, one must use Smart Serve trained personnel. I don't think that many upper tier police officers have bothered to get Smart Serve.
 
Re: Ever see a cop fly past you ....

dr_sarcasm said:
As written, I was playing Devil's Advocate i.e. just presenting a potential secondary scenario (right or wrong), given that a great majority seems to be siding one group over the other (it's what makes a discussion interesting, rather than folks re-hashing the same thing for pages and pages).
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yeah counterpoints are fine, but suggesting a preemptive strike isn't reasonable.

I don't side with the protestors, it doesn't mean I want the cops to go nuts.
 
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