Ice fisherman billed for rescue

[Dougy]

Forum Sponsor

Well inform us. Rather than mocking us uninformed people, why not offer a counterpoint since you have the inside scoop? Can I legally refuse to give a fire crew my personal info if I didn't call 911? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Even if it is your legal right to refuse identifying yourself to the fd(imnot sure about the law here)is not your legal right to refuse a police request to identify yourself(just to add-the only time you are legally obligated to speak to police is for the purpose of identification).Seeing as the police and fd work closely together you can bet your life a police officer will be showing up on the scene if you refuse to identify yourself to a firefighter and that cop won't be very happy,so play it how you'd like

 

[Macs]

Even if it is your legal right to refuse identifying yourself to the fd(imnot sure about the law here)is not your legal right to refuse a police request to identify yourself(just to add-the only time you are legally obligated to speak to police is for the purpose of identification).Seeing as the police and fd work closely together you can bet your life a police officer will be showing up on the scene if you refuse to identify yourself to a firefighter and that cop won't be very happy,so play it how you'd like

And due to privacy laws, the police are not allowed to release your personal information to the FD or anyone else. Swing and a miss.

Whether they do it anyway or not is up for debate.

 

[Dougy]

And due to privacy laws, the police are not allowed to release your personal information to the FD or anyone else. Swing and a miss.

Whether they do it anyway or not is up for debate.

Not up for debate,if you really believe information doesn't travel back and forth between the fd and police(legally or illegally) you are very ignorant.Swing and a miss,I don't think so but thanks for comin out bud

 

[RetroGrouch]

Seeing as the police and fd work closely together you can bet your life a police officer will be showing up on the scene if you refuse to identify yourself to a firefighter and that cop won't be very happy,so play it how you'd like

And due to privacy laws, the police are not allowed to release your personal information to the FD or anyone else. Swing and a miss.

Whether they do it anyway or not is up for debate.

Not up for debate,if you really believe information doesn't travel back and forth between the fd and police(legally or illegally) you are very ignorant.Swing and a miss,I don't think so but thanks for comin out bud

Years ago I had an accident. Cops and FD showed up. Cops got my info, no firefighter spoke to me. Got a bill a week later for the fire crew, insurance paid it. So yeah, cops do pass off info to FD.

 

[imnothng]

What the hell are firefighters doing responding to rescues on a lake. If the call has nothing to do with fires, the matter doesn't concern them. The 911 operator should have directed the matter to the opp. The opp has helicopters, inflatable boats, snow mobiles, and they have the ability to lay charges if necessary.

Perhaps next time you see a fire truck, take a look at it closely and you may just notice that after the "Fire" part, it may or may not say "and Rescue".

In many small towns that is how it is. In the occupied town of Caledonia where I grew up it was the fire department that did river rescues and pretty much anything rescue related. It'd be hard for the one OPP officer to come from Simcoe in a reasonable time for a rescue.


In this scenario the operator should have suggested the idiot call his idiot friends to come help him, seeing as he admitted the situation wasn't life threatening.

 

[boarder360]

What the hell are firefighters doing responding to rescues on a lake. If the call has nothing to do with fires, the matter doesn't concern them. The 911 operator should have directed the matter to the opp. The opp has helicopters, inflatable boats, snow mobiles, and they have the ability to lay charges if necessary.

You're not that bright are you. We are trained to do these rescue, and the police would be looking at us to do it. We may be firefighters but believe it or not we get trained to do more then just fires. When people are trapped in their cars from car accidents, who do you think cuts them out? Has nothing to do with fires but were the only ones trained to do it. Think you should go take a visit to your local fire department and get a clue. You pay taxes but you don't pay other municipalities taxes, so if you have an accident in theirs they are going to want to recoup the money spent to help you. These bills are almost always paid by insurance, most of the time you wont even know you got one.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

You're not that bright are you. We are trained to do these rescue, and the police would be looking at us to do it. We may be firefighters but believe it or not we get trained to do more then just fires. When people are trapped in their cars from car accidents, who do you think cuts them out? Has nothing to do with fires but were the only ones trained to do it. Think you should go take a visit to your local fire department and get a clue. You pay taxes but you don't pay other municipalities taxes, so if you have an accident in theirs they are going to want to recoup the money spent to help you. These bills are almost always paid by insurance, most of the time you wont even know you got one.

The only dimwits are the firefighters imposing themselves in areas that is not their responsibility. The waterways are under the domain of Transport Canada, the coast guard is responsible for the waterways. The 911 operator, misdirected the call in scugog and ought to be fired. If firefighters want to be compensated for rescues on waterways, raise the matter with your local mp, and the federal government to write you a check. Trying to get the money out of jo public, isn't going to happen. If I were this scugog guy and they pursued to collect this bill I would launch a lawsuit against 911 for not directing the call properely, transport Canada and the Coast Coard for not monitoring the waterways and putting my life at risk because of their negligence.

 

[BNKN]

You pay taxes but you don't pay other municipalities taxes, so if you have an accident in theirs they are going to want to recoup the money spent to help you. These bills are almost always paid by insurance, most of the time you wont even know you got one.

That should explain the inflated costs. They're billing the insurance companies. Of course, it's so obvious now. Forget the minor detail of our insurance premiums thru the roof. That's capitalism, can't mess with that.

 

[boarder360]

The only dimwits are the firefighters imposing themselves in areas that is not their responsibility. The waterways are under the domain of Transport Canada, the coast guard is responsible for the waterways. The 911 operator, misdirected the call in scugog and ought to be fired. If firefighters want to be compensated for rescues on waterways, raise the matter with your local mp, and the federal government to write you a check. Trying to get the money out of jo public, isn't going to happen. If I were this scugog guy and they pursued to collect this bill I would launch a lawsuit against 911 for not directing the call properely, transport Canada and the Coast Coard for not monitoring the waterways and putting my life at risk because of their negligence.

How is it not our responsibility? Its one of the situations we are required to respond to, if the municipality says were providing that service then were going to do it. And you keep saying its the firefighter that want to be compensated, we dont see the money it goes back into the municipalities budget. If you got a problem with that, take it up with city council. They fire department has nothing to do with it. And just and fyi the Scugog Fire department has the resources to deal with water rescue which is why they are the ones doing it. And don't forget if you have a problem with the Fire service you can always refuse our help and we will head on home.

http://www.scugog.ca/fire-trucks.69.php

Rescue 105
Year: 2006
Make: Dependable - Ford 650
Type of Calls Responds to: Rescue Calls (including water & ice rescue), also used as Command Post and/or Rehabilitation Unit for firefighters during long incidents
Primary Equipment on Board: Seasonal Rescue Equipment (water/ice rescue equipment, grass firefighting equipment)
Amount of Water on Board: N/A
Pumping Capacity: N/A
Scheduled to be Replaced in: 2026


Marine 106
Type of Calls Responds to: Water Rescue
Primary Equipment on Board: Water Rescue Equipment

 

[Torren]

. You pay taxes but you don't pay other municipalities taxes, so if you have an accident in theirs they are going to want to recoup the money spent to help you. These bills are almost always paid by insurance, most of the time you wont even know you got one.

These services should never be billed to an individual. Municipalities should be billing other municipalities. No if ands or buts about it.

That should explain the inflated costs. They're billing the insurance companies. Of course, it's so obvious now. Forget the minor detail of our insurance premiums thru the roof. That's capitalism, can't mess with that.

Unfortunately this is true. Greed runs rampant.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

How is it not our responsibility? Its one of the situations we are required to respond to, if the municipality says were providing that service then were going to do it.

Waterways are not the jurisdiction of the municipality, nuff said.

 

[chinto]

Warnings were given that it wasn't safe and he still went ahead with his fishing, that in my opinion was careless on his end and he should pay for his stupidity, perhaps next time he'll use his head a little.

how many times have you heard that motorcycling isn't safe?

slippery slope.

 

[infernobuster]

Well inform us. Rather than mocking us uninformed people, why not offer a counterpoint since you have the inside scoop? Can I legally refuse to give a fire crew my personal info if I didn't call 911? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Im not getting in on this conversation.
You want to talk about it, find me in person and well shoot the ****.
You can do what you want. If someone calls 911 on your behalf, there is other ways to identify you. License plate is a good one, you going to cover that up too?

Do it, and see what road that takes you down.

As for someone saying that the police can not share info with us, is very incorrect. FYI> when the report goes into our computers, we are also given the police occurence number which ties ALL info the police officer has on his report with ours. If we want a name, we ask the cop. Boom. Its that simple.

As for the comments from " itiswhatitis" .. your not the sharpest tool in the shed so i wont bother. Learn about your local FD and what services they provide to their residents.
If you think we just do "fires" you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Icbones]

I completely agree. People who ignore warnings and then place others in danger just to rescue their sorry *** should have to pay. Hopefully this will send a clear message to others to think before they venture out onto the ice when it is unsafe. BTW, this is not new as many ski areas have been charging for rescues of those who intentionally venture into closed areas.

So people that smoke, drink excessively, practice careless sex, have poor eating habits, ride a M/C, drive above the speed limit, etc should be denied healthcare when their lifestyle catches up with them? I guess nobody on this forum will have OHIP coverage

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Dad's gonna be bringing out the belt real soon.

 

[dasiffy]

A couple of random thoughts...

free health care is one of the fundamental parts of canada. The idea that we all help each other in times of need whether an accedent or from stupidity, no one should have to be burdened with finances when they're hurt.

It's a huge part of what canada is.

Free health care is suppose to be what canada is all about. charging for anything health related goes against this principal.

The best thing about living in a free country, is if you don't like the rules you're free to leave.
It seems people would rather change the rules than leave though.


-----------------

I am also a big supporter of a fat tax.
go to a restaurant and get steak and potatoes - HST
go to a restaurant and get fish and chips, - hst + fat tax

go to the grocery store and buy an apple - no tax
go to the grocery store and buy a bag of oreos - hst + fat tax

the health risks and burden on the health care system, is roughly the same for both smokers and obesity. Smokers get taxed. obes'ers don't.
-----------------

Fire departments where made before cars. They are placed close enough to ensure a good response time. (burlington i think it's under 2 minutes anywhere in the city.) They are first to the scene almost all the time. Because of their locations and because they're on stand by all day, they where asked to handle car crashes, first aid, heart attacks, diabetic shock, grandma's that fall down stairs.

Their trucks are big to support the ladders, and because they're big the can carry things that ambulances and cop car can't.

The fire department evolved into a 'jack of all trades' first responder. The fact that they're still called the fire department is misleading.


-------------
one final thought....
the health care system and emergency services are under funded. Lobbying governments for more funding doesn't work, so the billing of victims covers the cost.
If the level of care were to drop as a result of not billing victims, I'll bet the government lobbying would start to work.

Also can any of you really say you've never been hurt after doing something stupid?

 

[infernobuster]

A couple of random thoughts...

free health care is one of the fundamental parts of canada. The idea that we all help each other in times of need whether an accedent or from stupidity, no one should have to be burdened with finances when they're hurt.

It's a huge part of what canada is.

Free health care is suppose to be what canada is all about. charging for anything health related goes against this principal.

The best thing about living in a free country, is if you don't like the rules you're free to leave.
It seems people would rather change the rules than leave though.


-----------------

I am also a big supporter of a fat tax.
go to a restaurant and get steak and potatoes - HST
go to a restaurant and get fish and chips, - hst + fat tax

go to the grocery store and buy an apple - no tax
go to the grocery store and buy a bag of oreos - hst + fat tax

the health risks and burden on the health care system, is roughly the same for both smokers and obesity. Smokers get taxed. obes'ers don't.
-----------------

Fire departments where made before cars. They are placed close enough to ensure a good response time. (burlington i think it's under 2 minutes anywhere in the city.) They are first to the scene almost all the time. Because of their locations and because they're on stand by all day, they where asked to handle car crashes, first aid, heart attacks, diabetic shock, grandma's that fall down stairs.

Their trucks are big to support the ladders, and because they're big the can carry things that ambulances and cop car can't.

The fire department evolved into a 'jack of all trades' first responder. The fact that they're still called the fire department is misleading.

Thats why most or all FD's are called

Fire & Emergency Services now.

 

[Icbones]

A couple of random thoughts...

free health care is one of the fundamental parts of canada. The idea that we all help each other in times of need whether an accedent or from stupidity, no one should have to be burdened with finances when they're hurt.

It's a huge part of what canada is.

Free health care is suppose to be what canada is all about. charging for anything health related goes against this principal.

The best thing about living in a free country, is if you don't like the rules you're free to leave.
It seems people would rather change the rules than leave though.


-----------------

I am also a big supporter of a fat tax.
go to a restaurant and get steak and potatoes - HST
go to a restaurant and get fish and chips, - hst + fat tax

go to the grocery store and buy an apple - no tax
go to the grocery store and buy a bag of oreos - hst + fat tax

-----------------

Fire departments where made before cars. They are placed close enough to ensure a good response time. (burlington i think it's under 2 minutes anywhere in the city.) They are first to the scene almost all the time. Because of their locations and because they're on stand by all day, they where asked to handle car crashes, first aid, heart attacks, diabetic shock, grandma's that fall down stairs.

Their trucks are big to support the ladders, and because they're big the can carry things that ambulances and cop car can't.

The fire department evolved into a 'jack of all trades' first responder. The fact that they're still called the fire department is misleading.

I agree with most of what you say. But healthcare is not free. It consumes ~ 43% of your provincial tax dollar. When Tommy Douglas pitched the idea of medicare, it was to reduce the financial burden of serious medical issues, and as you say help each other in need. He had no idea that the public would abuse the system by bringing in their kids to an emergency department for minor falls and scrapes. Or people with ingrown toenails or a single episode of diarrhea presenting themselves to the ER department. Tommy also didn't consider over the next fifty years, the advancement of complicated (expensive) diagnostic, therapeutic and invasive procedures.

Do I think people should be charged for health services? Yes. I also think Doctors should not be paid for ording redundant and repetitive tests and procedures. But this will never happen until the whole system collapses, under the financial weight caused by abuse.

 

[Icbones]

A couple of random thoughts...



The best thing about living in a free country, is if you don't like the rules you're free to leave.
It seems people would rather change the rules than leave though.

Well, unless your an immigrant or someone that has dual citizenship, leaving Canada is not an option. Since I was born in this country, no other country has an obligation to take me in.

 

[OpenGambit]

Im not getting in on this conversation.
You want to talk about it, find me in person and well shoot the ****.
You can do what you want. If someone calls 911 on your behalf, there is other ways to identify you. License plate is a good one, you going to cover that up too?

Do it, and see what road that takes you down.

As for someone saying that the police can not share info with us, is very incorrect. FYI> when the report goes into our computers, we are also given the police occurence number which ties ALL info the police officer has on his report with ours. If we want a name, we ask the cop. Boom. Its that simple.

As for the comments from " itiswhatitis" .. your not the sharpest tool in the shed so i wont bother. Learn about your local FD and what services they provide to their residents.
If you think we just do "fires" you are sadly mistaken.

I know we went into this before in some detail, but I don't remember the actual answer, what were the billing practices exactly? Something about municipalities?

Forum Sponsor