Ice fisherman billed for rescue

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25% of Canadians own guns and I haven't seen the place 1/4-riddled either, plus we're allowed access to cheaper sources of ammo (like buying in bulk and reloading).. Also I'm sure SK has a higher rate of gun ownership than Canada average (kept artificially low by Ontario and especially Quebec) ;)

I was being a bit facetious;) I certainly hope we can follow the Scandinavian model but I'm not holding my breath.
 
I was being a bit facetious;) I certainly hope we can follow the Scandinavian model but I'm not holding my breath.

Neither am I, mostly due to the lack of political will, the makeup of our political system and the proximity to the United States.
 
the proximity to the United States.

OK, I'm gonna open up a can of worms here. USA is over run by garbage culture loosely defined by Hollywood catering to the lowest common base human instincts for maximum profit.
 
It can be done if managed right. Just look at Scandinavia. In those countries the government directly controls up to 30% of the economy including employing up to 30% of the population, they got more social programs than us, less income disparity, and generally comfortable lives for all. I'd be more interested in looking into why it works for them and how we can make it work for us.

A more local example is the provincial car insurance program in SK. It turns a profit, which you get back as refunds based on your driving record - extremely well-managed. If they can do it on a pretty significant scale, it can be expanded to work on an even bigger scale as long as we adopt their management style and system of checks and balances.

Taking your example of car insurance. As mentioned on this site before

http://ww.cireport.ca/2012/05/contr...car-crashes-costing-insurers-1-5-million.html

And the big circle comes around. This guys relatives have a physio therapy clinic, WSIB and OHIP most likely ripped off. This is typical of Canada. Some POS from an undeveloped country, with help from a relative familiar with our system tutors new arrivals on the finer points of scamming the system.
 
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Taking your example of car insurance. As mentioned on this site before

http://ww.cireport.ca/2012/05/contr...car-crashes-costing-insurers-1-5-million.html

And the big circle comes around. This guys relatives have a physio therapy clinic, WSIB and OHIP most likely ripped off. This is typical of Canada. Some POS from an undeveloped country, with help from a relative familiar with our system tutors new arrivals on the finer points of scamming the system.

Every developed country has a similar system and it gets abused until the abuses get dealt with. In Germany they had a refugee welfare system, but it was administered by their equivalent of the province. So a refugee family would register with all the provinces and start living pretty fat. Once they caught onto that, they tweaked the system and pulled the plug on that scam.

In Scandinavian countries, you can generally live on welfare and have your basics covered (not the case in Canada), but the pull factor of holding down a regular job in those countries keeps the unemployment rates down. Even in Sweden, "worst-off" of all Scandinavian countries (unemployment rate of 8.8% but it's a real figure, unlike our doctored figures that have NOTHING to do with reality), the unemployment is still WELL below the European average.

While our government's policies contain some right moves like upping our resource exports to Asian market, we're still too friendly to companies that outsource and that bring in migrant labor. Each job that's being outsourced or given to a person who sends it back to his hellhole of a country adds one unemployed Canadian, dependent on welfare and not having enough money to put back into our economy. Plus, it keeps the wages for everybody down as there's more competition for fewer jobs.
 
It can be done if managed right. Just look at Scandinavia. In those countries the government directly controls up to 30% of the economy including employing up to 30% of the population, they got more social programs than us, less income disparity, and generally comfortable lives for all. I'd be more interested in looking into why it works for them and how we can make it work for us.

.

Whats their income tax rate?
 
Whats their income tax rate?

Even higher than ours, among the highest in the world, but it still leaves them with enough cash to live more comfortably than us and the other 70% of their economy (the private sector) didn't collapse because of the tax rates as those tax dollars are pumped right back into the local economy (which is something that the right wing propa.. I mean "media" likes to sweep under the rug). Government purchases goods and services from the local business community, it pays salaries to people who spend money with the local businesses, that money just gets recycled and doesn't "automagically" disappear.
 
Generated quite a few comments for and against. Curious how GTAM will view things.

http://www.durhamregion.com/news/article/1572870--shwa5

pre-emptive tl;dr - warnings are given that ice is not safe, guy goes ice fishing, tries to head back to his truck at 7pm and goes through the ice, 911 is called


SCUGOG -- An Oshawa man says Scugog's decision to bill him nearly $5,400 after firefighters pulled him from Lake Scugog sets a worrisome precedent that could have deadly consequences.An avid angler with more than 30 years' experience fishing on Lake Scugog, Neil Robbescheuten trekked his way out to a patch of ice just north of Scugog Island on the afternoon of Jan. 13 in hopes of catching a few fish.
Instead, he landed himself a bill for $5,392.78 from the Scugog Fire Department after he became disoriented on the ice after a thick fog rolled in and called for help after getting stuck in mud while trying to make it ashore.
"The precedent this sets is huge," said Mr. Robbescheuten, who received the bill Jan. 23. "Scugog council needs funding, they have fiscal challenges, but to try and recoup money from 911 services is dead wrong."
The Oshawa angler says he knows of no other municipalities that charge for rescues requested through 911 calls and says that Scugog's decision to bill for services is "a huge change" in 911 protocol that could have grave consequences.
Specifically, he's concerned that someone needing help may not call 911, worried about the cost of emergency services, or they may waste precious minutes while they consider whether they can afford the help of first responders.
"What happens to a poor person or a young person who hesitates to call or they don't want to call 911 because of their fear of billing?" asked Mr. Robbescheuten, 62. "The ramifications of this could be huge."
For years, Scugog councillors have grumbled about the costs and dangers associated with rescuing boaters, anglers and snowmobile enthusiasts from the local lake.
The Township, however, has been handcuffed by provincial privacy laws which prohibit the municipality from using personal information -- such as names and addresses -- garnered from a police report for billing purposes.
Last fall, Scugog Fire Chief Richard Miller told councillors he would ask his firefighters to try to collect personal information from anyone rescued, specifically so that Scugog could try to recoup some of its costs.
"When you're on the lake and you call 911 and we come and rescue you, you should expect a bill for fees and services as council has directed the fire department (to send)," said Chief Miller on Monday.
Mr. Robbescheuten "was in a position where he recognized he shouldn't be in" and was charged accordingly under Scugog's bylaws, said the fire chief.
As for the Oshawa man's assertions that Scugog is changing 911 protocols, Chief Miller stressed: "He's giving (the public) that perception, not us."
Mr. Robbescheuten, however, contends that he did nothing wrong on Jan. 13.
It was a unseasonably mild day and he wandered about 130 yards from the northern tip of Scugog Island for his fourth trip of the 2013 ice-fishing season. At one point, the former Durham school principal called his wife and three friends to remark about the wonderful weather as he fished on ice about five inches thick.
"It was a perfect day," said Mr. Robbescheuten, who was wearing a survival suit that afternoon.
As twilight neared, a thick fog began to roll into the area, covering the shoreline and the lake. Mr. Robbescheuten decided to give the fog some time to dissipate, but finally chose to try to make his way ashore around 7 p.m.
"It was a blanket of fog like I've never experienced before," said Mr. Robbescheuten, who could only see about four feet ahead with his Coleman lantern. "I had no idea where I was going, the fog was so dense."
Pulling a sleigh with all his ice-fishing gear, he realized he was wandering off-course but thought his luck changed when he spotted some weeds and bullrushes.
As he walked towards a marshy area just west of the Crozier Lane boat launch, where he left his truck, Mr. Robbescheuten suddenly went through the ice -- first his left leg, then his right.
He didn't sink very deep, but he did end up knee-deep in mud, his lantern extinguished by an unexpected drop into water.
Mr. Robbescheuten tried his best to get out of the mud, pulling on bullrushes and rolling on the ice, but couldn't budge his boots from Lake Scugog's mucky bottom.
"I thought I had a bear trap on my feet. I thought those were my last moments there," he said, noting he sprained a ligament in one of his legs from all the attempts to get out of the mud.
Finally acknowledging his predicament, Mr. Robbescheuten called two of his friends for help but realized they'd probably end up stuck like him. Reluctantly, he called 911.
"I was not in grave danger, I just wanted someone to show me the direction back to shore so I could get back to my truck," said Mr. Robbescheuten.
A 911 operator stayed on the line with Mr. Robbescheuten for more than 20 minutes as Scugog firefighters made their way to him. He was then helped from the mud and dragged to shore in a zodiac boat.
"And now all of a sudden I'm sent a bill for $5,400 is unbelievable, it's unbelievable," said Mr. Robbescheuten, who stressed he has no intentions of paying the invoice.
Instead, he says he will appear before Scugog councillors at the March 4 municipal committees meeting to outline his concerns.
"I cannot pay this bill. I will not pay it on principle," he said.

Don't be a Stick-in-the-Mud Mr. Robbescheuten . Just pay the Bill. My five cents worth.
 
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Wait a minute, you don't want to pay for the same emergency services for visitors, that you are willing to pay for Canadians? "Welcome to Canada, hope you enjoy and leave us alone."

If I understand you correctly, you expect Canadians to pay for social services for visitors and vacationers in Canada? They haven't paid a cent for these services. Why should they be eligible? What happens in the U.S.A. when a Canadian accesses American medical services? You better have CAA buddy!

Seriously.
 
Each job that's being outsourced or given to a person who sends it back to his hellhole of a country adds one unemployed Canadian, dependent on welfare and not having enough money to put back into our economy. Plus, it keeps the wages for everybody down as there's more competition for fewer jobs.

This isn't true. It may be true sometimes but its hardly the matter of fact situation you describe it as.
 
This isn't true. It may be true sometimes but its hardly the matter of fact situation you describe it as.

Tell that to those people working in factories whose production got moved to China and to those CSR's whose call centers got ousourced to India (same goes for some highly technical IT staff) and to everybody competing with them for the same jobs that pay less and less every year (the median wage hasn't moved in decades, but prices sure have).
 
Tell that to those people working in factories whose production got moved to China and to those CSR's whose call centers got ousourced to India (same goes for some highly technical IT staff) and to everybody competing with them for the same jobs that pay less and less every year (the median wage hasn't moved in decades, but prices sure have).

I will gladly say that, because my point stands. Nothing you said takes away from that at all. Keep in mind that almost all the automotive jobs that we do have are "outsourced" from the US, because its not like we are just making cars for our own market. You don't seem to have a problem with that.
 
I will gladly say that, because my point stands. Nothing you said takes away from that at all. Keep in mind that almost all the automotive jobs that we do have are "outsourced" from the US, because its not like we are just making cars for our own market. You don't seem to have a problem with that.

That was a part of agreements going back to the auto pact days. They wanted favoured tax status on our market and in return they had to create local jobs. Win-win for Canada and the automakers.
 
Speaking of, conditions were great yesterday on Simcoe with a solid 8" pretty much even across the lake :).
ma5ymyre.jpg
 
That's because of the big drop in temps.

And they say I don't contribute in the threads.:rolleyes:
 
That was a part of agreements going back to the auto pact days. They wanted favoured tax status on our market and in return they had to create local jobs. Win-win for Canada and the automakers.

Why is that relevant? you are clearly taking the view from the perspective of the domestic worker, so from the worker that used to have the job in the US, it still favours the corporation and the foreign government. You have still taken a contradictory view, because you just justified it from the view of the country receiving the job.

So it seems to me that you are ok with other people outsourcing jobs here but not ok with us outsourcing jobs elsewhere, that is not a viable policy option.
 
"I was not in grave danger, I just wanted someone to show me the direction back to shore so I could get back to my truck," said Mr. Robbescheuten.


Bill him for it. Plain and simple.

The article also quotes him saying he thought those were his last moments. He was still stuck when rescue arrived. Contradictory information in that article.
 
The article also quotes him saying he thought those were his last moments. He was still stuck when rescue arrived. Contradictory information in that article.

Unless the mud was eating him alive or he was out there for days and running out of food/water... he panicked.
 
Unless the mud was eating him alive or he was out there for days and running out of food/water... he panicked.

I might panic too if up to knees in icy mud with damaged ligament. Food/water will not be #1 problem, hypothermia will be. I'm curious why he downplayed the dangers later as if to say "I didn't really need the rescue, so don't bill me"
 
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