Harper turnning Canada into an Orwellian police state!

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shahfaisal said:
their is no perfect system out there.. we need to keep an open mind when approaching new ideas... communism was perfect for the soviets when nazis attacked.. or would you rather have them sit our discussing/campaigning who gets to lead the country?

communism, democracy, theocracy, monarchies they are all imperft.. they all had a purpose.. and they all have served it.. i think... at least in the west its time we started forming a truer form of democracy.. power to the people.. not power only to the people if they agreed o give it away.
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I never said their was a perfect system but to say communism was perfect for a situation in a ridiculous statement otherwise it would not have ended so badly. It happen yes it may had had short term agains but it wasn't optimal to the wellbeing of society as a whole
 
Two50noob said:
I never said their was a perfect system but to say communism was perfect for a situation in a ridiculous statement otherwise it would not have ended so badly. It happen yes it may had had short term agains but it wasn't optimal to the wellbeing of society as a whole
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i never said it was the ultimate solution... it had its place where it was useful.. Unfortunately the soviets didn't evolve.. they stuck with an aging system which did not take into account the need for basic human desire of growth and evolution..

something we seem to be ignoring right now as well... its my personal belief that religion should be untouched but its the political and technological scene that must evolve continuously in order to serve the people... at least thats my personal opinion.
 
shahfaisal said:
i never said it was the ultimate solution... it had its place where it was useful.. Unfortunately the soviets didn't evolve.. they stuck with an aging system which did not take into account the need for basic human desire of growth and evolution..

something we seem to be ignoring right now as well... its my personal belief that religion should be untouched but its the political and technological scene that must evolve continuously in order to serve the people... at least thats my personal opinion.
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Yes useful for some not for society as a whole and yes things happened and will happen how optimal they are is something that we can at least attempt to answer. How can you say religion should be un-touched religions are changed by culture as much as they influence the culture its simply not possible for it to be isolated and to do so would require punishments for thinking differently.

You should read Anti-Oedipus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia
 
Two50noob said:
Yes useful for some not of society as a whole. How can you say religion should be un-touched religions are changed by culture as much as they influence the culture its simply not possible for it to be isolated and to do so would require punishments for thinking differently.

You should read Anti-Oedipus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia
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i will put it only list.. hopefully it won't be a cabbage fest.

it is my opinion that religion can exist on its own without being forcibly enforced on others... it only becomes punitive when PEOPLE start forcing it on others...if people were to see religion as a set of ideal to aspire to instead of sticking to every literal translation while ignoring the principals behind a line or phrase etc...

its the religious fanatics that are the problem.. they start forcing their own faith on others...a societal political/ technological system should in my view be separate.. and must be left to the individual to practice with out prejudice or consequences...
 
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shahfaisal said:
i will put it only list.. hopefully it won't be a cabbage fest.
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When you say Cabbage fest you arn't say you hope its not full of ideas from women are you? I mean generally what I take from that ... i'm assuming no i think there is just some cross cultural misunderstanding here
 
Two50noob said:
When you say Cabbage fest you arn't say you hope its not full of ideas from women are you? I mean generally what I take from that ... i'm assuming no i think there is just some cross cultural misunderstanding here
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by cabbage fest i mean some scary radical ****.... something along the lines of wahibi/christian zionist/ hardcore atheist/ our way or the highway love child.

no I've learnt a lot from women.. both what to do and what not to do... i think mothers/fathers should be running the country a lot more.. instead of men and women... their is a difference. they should be running the country and the world for their children not for personal ambition or financial gain.
 
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shahfaisal said:
by cabbage fest i mean some scary radical ****.... something along the lines of wahibi/christian zionist/ hardcore atheist/ our way or the highway love child.
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I would be interesting to know what you think Hard core atheist material would be but no its a book that critiques various thinkers and talks about peoples inherent desire for fascism and "Self repression". The second part of the book and i think the 4th is a criticism of freud and other psychological ideas not particularly relevant to this conversation.

The author were Radical anti fascist's however but IMO thats like being Radically anti-genocide.
 
Could be interesting... based on your review i am gonna push it up on my list of to read material
 
shahfaisal said:
Ive noticed that in the west communists were the bogey men... maybe still are.. but why do people hate something without understanding its principals or basics...

I am not a fan of communism but that doesnt mean i fear it... i get that at a certain stage in a particular country's life communism helped save it from collapse.. it served its purpose and now its gone...

Everything has a purpose, a time and a place when its apropriate... even democracy.. there are places on earth were democracy is the worst idea... yet we openly force it down their throats... as long as they choose the leaders we've selected for them and refrain from making their own choices.
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Why is it communist countries have not prosper? The only exception might be China & they have given their people alot more democracy than 50 yrs ago.

Another thing you're not arguing communism you're arguing coherence as a country. 2 different things
 
RockerGuy said:
Why is it communist countries have not prosper? The only exception might be China & they have given their people alot more democracy than 50 yrs ago.

Another thing you're not arguing communism you're arguing coherence as a country. 2 different things
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Mm do you understand the purpose of communism.. its not prosperity... capitalism is meant to do that and look well over 70% of the populations of capitalist countries are not exactly prospering... your aurgument is like going to a fast food joint and then saying look fast food joints are a failure since none of them are healthy.. unlike your favorite green/organic/health food store...

If the purpose was to bring prosperity to its people then yes they(eastern european communist countries) failed... but since the goal was to bring unity/security and equality instead.. they did a pretty darn good job... atleast on the equality side.

China is an exception because they switched their system half way...along with the goals. From equality/stability to economic growth.. hence the financial growth.. THEY EVOLVED.

no matter how much I beat a cow its not going to lay an egg.. if you want eggs go fetch a chicken.
 
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shahfaisal said:
If the purpose was to bring prosperity to its people then yes they(eastern european communist countries) failed... but since the goal was to bring unity/security and equality instead.. they did a pretty darn good job...
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Um no prosperity of they people is the purpose of communism(marxism) particularly by providing a connection to the work that the working class would do by socializing productio and if they goal was to bring Unity and security they failed in that as well..
 
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Two50noob said:
Um no prosperity of they people is the purpose of communism and if they goal was to bring Unity and security they failed in that as well..
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How exactly can the state afford to give everyone a benz and a million dollar home? State can give a car and a home as the soviets did... security situation failed when soviets didnt evolve... it became a restriction on people instead
 
shahfaisal said:
How exactly can the state afford to give everyone a benz and a million dollar home? State can give a car and a home as the soviets did... security situation failed when soviets didnt evolve... it became a restriction on people instead
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Dude im not arguing that it works im arguing that you don't know what communism is. You keep putting up mis understandings of it and its implementations. The security of the people was jeopardized by its implementation itself.
 
Two50noob said:
Dude im not arguing that it works im arguing that you don't know what communism is. You keep putting up mis understandings of it and its implementations. The security of the people was jeopardized by its implementation itself.
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Stalin and his followers went knuts thats true... but thats bad leadership... they started to stray far far away from karl marxs vision of a fair equal state.. they got bogged down in a pissing match with the west.
 
shahfaisal said:
Stalin and his followers went knuts thats true... but thats bad leadership... they started to stray far far away from karl marxs vision of a fair equal state.. they got bogged down in a pissing match with the west.
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Yes and its implementation failed to provide security, prosperity or even something as simple as food thanks to Trofim Denisovich Lysenko
 
Two50noob said:
Yes and its implementation failed to provide security, prosperity or even something as simple as food thanks to Trofim Denisovich Lysenko
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By the end of soviets yes thats true thats why they are no more... i agree with you in principal.. my disagreement is with RockerGuy..he sseems to placing the intended goals of capitalism on communism...
 
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shahfaisal said:
By the end of soviets yes thats true.. i agree with you in principal.. my disagreement is with RockerGuy..he sseems to placing the intended goals of capitalism on communism...
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Even at the beginning can't say your secure and happy when you are starving to death and could be put in prison for critiquing the government.
 
shahfaisal said:
Just realized weve gone wayyy off topic...
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Oh, I can do this. 60 million people died in WW2. Two decades later Hollywood Jews produced situational comedies about WW2 for profit. Of course one must never forget Jews who died in WW2, that's different. Easy to understand Harpers love.
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