Generation Jobless

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^ and works great for Sweden and Denmark too. Among the world's most prosperous, happy countries and they are as socialist as you'd like.
 
So your argument is that I am out of touch? did it occur to you that maybe I got to where I am because I was really really sick of being poor?

Yes i have an office now but I grew up on a factory floor (meaning I slept there), and I bathed in the warm water that they used for industrial application (seriously). and I have seen and been to tons of factories. I'll bet my industrial chops against anyone on this board. And no, I don't think that the Canadian worker is more professional or more hardworking. In my view, probably just average people who work do what they have to. That is, simply put, not unique.

Lastly, Nothing you said is at all an argument for protectionism.
 
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I don't want to quote all of OpenGambit's post a few up regarding China and manufacturing...but I've heard the exact same thing (and believe it). China is very smart in what it has done -- take on contracts, build up its infrastructure, workforce, and knowledge/know-how (there's that education word again lol). This gives them the ability not only to replicate and design their own products, but by taking on our manufacturing needs they have stripped us from easily being able to 'do it ourselves' again, at least for a long while, as we have become dependant on them to a large degree as a nation. Also don't forget another country, Japan, used to be known for crappy goods that could never rival 'the west' -- now look at them today.

It's not hard to see what they are doing as a country, and why everyone is saying if you want to learn another language now (or have your kids learn), make it Mandarin, as that will likely be one of the big business languages in the future (especially given the current situation in the US).
 
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China is very smart and they are selling their manufactured goods cheap now. That will change when we all lose enough of our manufacturing ability that we can't build our industries back up in a reasonable amount of time. Do you know that America doesn't have the ability to mass-produce a computer, now? While they could probably redevelop it in short order now and in near future, give it a bit of time, and there will be a complete role reversal.
 
...And now because this thread is in dire need of some topic-appropriate humour:

[video=youtube;rYaZ57Bn4pQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYaZ57Bn4pQ[/video]
 
FiReSTaRT said:
China is very smart and they are selling their manufactured goods cheap now. That will change when we all lose enough of our manufacturing ability that we can't build our industries back up in a reasonable amount of time. Do you know that America doesn't have the ability to mass-produce a computer, now? While they could probably redevelop it in short order now and in near future, give it a bit of time, and there will be a complete role reversal.
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True that's a possibility, but it also relies on a mental-shift here as well. Do you think all those graduating university with degrees and debt will want to go work in a factory? As I mentioned before, I know people who graduated with Management degrees from UofT who turn their noses up to low-level positions in accounting firms as they feel they should be starting at $100,000 and have a corner office, all because of their degree (which EVERYONE else has too). I've tried to tell them take it as an opportunity to get your feet wet and get into the company, especially one in their dream industry...but 9 times out of 10 it falls on deaf ears.

Also, if manufacturing were brought back home for say a computer, what would that computer cost, given what wadge a Canadian worker would expect to be paid? If China was still smart at that time, they could raise their price significantly, but still undercut something we made ourselves. Again I'm not saying what you said couldn't happen -- I'm saying there's a lot more involved and it largely requires the support of the public/potential workforce as well.
 
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conundrum said:
True that's a possibility, but it also relies on a mental-shift here as well. Do you think all those graduating university with degrees and debt will want to go work in a factory? As I mentioned before, I know people who graduated with Management degrees from UofT who turn their noses up to low-level positions in accounting firms as they feel they should be starting at $100,000 and have a corner office, all because of their degree (which EVERYONE else has too). I've tried to tell them take it as an opportunity to get your feet wet and get into the company, especially one in their dream industry...but 9 times out of 10 it falls on deaf ears.

Also, if manufacturing were brought back home for say a computer, what would that computer cost, given what wadge a Canadian worker would expect to be paid? If China was still smart at that time, they could raise their price significantly, but still undercut something we made ourselves. Again I'm not saying what you said couldn't happen -- I'm saying there's a lot more involved and it largely requires the support of the public/potential workforce as well.
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The mental shift is already happening.. Many university grads were turning their noses up at government jobs as they could make more in the private sector while a large middle class was still needed for the Cold War. Now, everybody and their grandmother wants to work for the employer that guarantees the smallest reductions in salary (relative to the cost of living), offers benefits and pension. Also, many university grads are flocking into the skilled trades as that's the only other sector that still offers a living wage en-masse.

As for bringing manufacturing back home, I have 3 considerations there..

1) Eventually, when China's the only game in town and the others can't build up their capacity within a reasonable amount of time, don't you think they'll start jacking up their prices? Basic supply-demand

2) The more you support local job creation, the better the ratio of jobs to Canadians there is, which translates into higher salaries. Again, supply-demand. That means more affluent population, which spends more money on local businesses, which create more jobs... Self-feeding loop once you get the balance right. Industry has historically been the driving force of the economy. Why do you think China's #1 now and the US used to be #1 when they were the industrial superpower. Why do you think Germany's able to carry the EU? Nations that foster their manufacturing sector, prosper

3) There is the strategic importance of having industrial capabilities. What if we get into a conflict with China? Wouldn't be the first time for us to find each other on the opposite sides of the fence. Would you wanna be in conflict with the nation that can immediately cut you off from all the products that make the trains run on time here?
 
So this thread gets darker and darker eh?
Personally I am in 2nd year of a business program, I'm a bit worried about my future as graduation date approaches. All the articles I've read, it seems as if all the markets are over saturated with worker. (specifically the commerce and aviation field)

Maybe it's time for me to sell my bike and start investing in the stock market. :rolleyes:
 
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Dont be afraid, if you've put in the time to network so you can have some opportunities to talk to when you graduate you'll be fine. Unless your a international banking grad in the top two percent of your class, you may not get a corner office.

Look for oppotunities for business studnets that aren't paper pushing business jobs, sales is good and there are lots of sales jobs and nobody wants the "suit and a smile" salesguy anymore.

All that manufacturing that went to China still needs business grads to manage the distribution of the products here. And source product and run the businesses that sell offshore product.

Short example, we hired an accounting grad from waterloo right out of school , week he graduated, he needed a job and we knew and liked him from mutual recreation activities. We wanted to deal with China and the middle east and said we'll give you a starting wage that will pay your rent and car and a commission for any business you can figure out. We were too busy to take on the project developing other markets and we'll gamble on a project if it looks interesting. 1st yr I paid him about $45g, 2nd yr 80g, last yr $128g and he asked for an assistant that speak Mandarin and Cantonese, so we found him one.
He had no preconceived notions of how we did business so everything he brought to the table was a new idea.

I have hired new grads for years, I dont really care if your degree is in poly sci, fashion or marketing. If you can speak coherently and are trainable it usually works. We mostly hire people we like.
 
KarGo said:
Maybe it's time for me to sell my bike and start investing in the stock market. :rolleyes:
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I take your not serious because that's how North America has dug a hole for itself. Too many people with dreams of making it rich in the finance world manipulating money with hedgefunds, stocks, bonds, whatever instead of actually creating something innovating and tangible.
 
crankcall said:
I have no interest in Socialism, it didnt look like fun for the countries that tried it. I'm a happy Capitalist, importing, distributing and manufacturing here in happy Canada, and using all the forest products I can gleen from our abundant natural resources. The Federal and provincial and to a lesser degree municipal governments all have thier collective hands hands in my pockets plenty deep. We need more taxes on resources like I need third nipple.
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Not taxing resources equates to a country giving it a way. Why would any rational government give away wealth to other countries or foreign nationals. Oh wait, it's Canada, a country who puts the world ahead of the needs and interests of its own people.
 
ItIsWhatItIs said:
Not taxing resources equates to a country giving it a way. Why would any rational government give away wealth to other countries or foreign nationals. Oh wait, it's Canada, a country who puts the world ahead of the needs and interests of its own people.
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Here is an idea for you, buy some shares of the oil sands companies... public markets, what a concept.
 
OpenGambit said:
Here is an idea for you, buy some shares of the oil sands companies... public markets, what a concept.
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Here's a reality, I work forty hours at a rate of pay, and when I look at my pay stub it doesn't add up up to the hours times rate, where's the rest. Cost of employment, cost of doing business, same diff. Tax the fuk out of them.
 
All that will mean is that you will get paid less. The company will maintain its net profit for the benefit of shareholders.

Get a clue.
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