Generation Jobless

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I found University to be the "fend for yourself" education, but College was stupid easy (maybe because I went to Uni first). But the education in College (Paralegal) was 100% practical. The only thing I used from UofT was how to write papers/arguments (Philosophy/Poli-Sci). So I just used the literary and writing skills, but the practical content came from College alone.
 
I truly believe schooling is just a self gratification tool. I went to college and have two diploma's. I also have a Journeyman status in a trade. My 9-6 job has nothing to do with what I went to school for or the trade I'm certified in however I make the same wage based solely on expierence. If you want to make money and enjoy life you need to go out and just do it. People waste way to much time on maybe's that are promised when exiting high school.
 
rbjeepthing said:
I truly believe schooling is just a self gratification tool. I went to college and have two diploma's. I also have a Journeyman status in a trade. My 9-6 job has nothing to do with what I went to school for or the trade I'm certified in however I make the same wage based solely on expierence. If you want to make money and enjoy life you need to go out and just do it. People waste way to much time on maybe's that are promised when exiting high school.
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Agree completely. How many times have you heard of some immigrant coming here with $20 pinned to inside shirt pocket, 5 yrs. later employs 6 people cleaning offices @ nite, bypassing hordes of uppity Uni grads in money game? Still can't speak English. Put self gratification tool away and just do it.
 
Well, I find myself in the opposite side of things. I have worked most of my life and education was never my main focus. I have gained a vast amount of experience from my employment and I earn a good wage that has provided form my family and myself. Now I want something more and education is the answer it's time to blend academic knowledge with my years of "real world" experience to allow myself to progress even further. I have never really "wanted" to do what my jobs allowed me to do and it took me years to figure out just what I am good at. Now that I have a good understanding of what I want to do and how it works in the workplace I am ready to take the next step and get back into a classroom. In order to survive one must adapt and evolve. Just my 2 cents...
 
rbjeepthing said:
I truly believe schooling is just a self gratification tool.
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Yup. Totally. I'm doing a distance-learning Law diploma from London (accredited/recognized in Canada) in the fall. Although it'll be 3-5 years until I get it because of the timelines, I can use those credentials to be recognized in Canada and up my work status/promotion ability here. Just having it on paper is a big enough investment for my employment (don't practice/go to court, but law related).
 
Mr.Azim said:
Yup. Totally. I'm doing a distance-learning Law diploma from London (accredited/recognized in Canada) in the fall. Although it'll be 3-5 years until I get it because of the timelines, I can use those credentials to be recognized in Canada and up my work status/promotion ability here. Just having it on paper is a big enough investment for my employment (don't practice/go to court, but law related).
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I myself am doing something similar. Undergrad got my foot in the door, now it's all about experience. To keep up and stay relevant, I'm taking night courses at the local college for a couple of accredited programs. Gotta keep up or get left behind. Schooling is just another tool in your arsenal, too many people make it seem like it's the only tool.
 
Mr.Azim said:
Yup. Totally. I'm doing a distance-learning Law diploma from London (accredited/recognized in Canada) in the fall. Although it'll be 3-5 years until I get it because of the timelines, I can use those credentials to be recognized in Canada and up my work status/promotion ability here. Just having it on paper is a big enough investment for my employment (don't practice/go to court, but law related).
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Umm.. sorry what?
 
OpenGambit said:
Umm.. sorry what?
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An international degree recognized by Ontario/Canada is eligible for a transition program at the UofT (and other universities). Basically: get your education in another country? You can come to Canada, take a 1-2 year course to cover more specifics about Canadian law and qualify to obtain your L-license from the LSUC.

http://www.itlp.utoronto.ca/

It takes a little longer, but ideal for someone like myself who works full time and wants to advance my studies. I might not want to practice law now but can use the degree for career advancement. If I did want to practice, I could provided I comply with the LSUC requirements. The only part-time Law school in Ontario is Windsor, and that's impossible to do with my work in Toronto.
 
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Keep in mind, although university, college, trade school, etc doesn't guarantee a job, in a lot of cases it is still a part of getting it. Maybe some degrees don't mean anything when you do actually find something, but if everyone around you is competing/fighting for the same job and you only have your highschool diploma...you likely aren't going to get in.

Note this doesn't apply to those who decide to play the entrepreneur card and start up their own business, but it does apply to almost all other jobs out there. I've even been hearing as university is deemed so easy now (and arguably it is even compared to 10-15 years ago with downloadable lecture slides and postcasts) that soon most places will ask for a Masters as a minimum requirement just to thin the masses. I'm not saying it is right (it isn't), but it's a potential fact of life.
 
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Mr.Azim said:
An international degree recognized by Ontario/Canada is eligible for a transition program at the UofT (and other universities). Basically: get your education in another country? You can come to Canada, take a 1-2 year course to cover more specifics about Canadian law and qualify to obtain your L-license from the LSUC.

http://www.itlp.utoronto.ca/

It takes a little longer, but ideal for someone like myself who works full time and wants to advance my studies. I might not want to practice law now but can use the degree for career advancement. If I did want to practice, I could provided I comply with the LSUC requirements. The only part-time Law school in Ontario is Windsor, and that's impossible to do with my work in Toronto.
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I think that route is a pain in the ***. thats what I am saying. Even for guys who got their JD in Canada, worked overseas and came back its a pain. its a even bigger pain for foreign educated students.
 
conundrum said:
Keep in mind, although university, college, trade school, etc doesn't guarantee a job, in a lot of cases it is still a part of getting it. Maybe some degrees don't mean anything when you do actually find something, but if everyone around you is competing/fighting for the same job and you only have your highschool diploma...you likely aren't going to get in.

Note this doesn't apply to those who decide to play the entrepreneur card and start up their own business, but it does apply to almost all other jobs out there. I've even been hearing as university is deemed so easy now (and arguably it is even compared to 10-15 years ago with downloadable lecture slides and postcasts) that soon most places will ask for a Masters as a minimum requirement just to thin the masses. I'm not saying it is right (it isn't), but it's a potential fact of life.
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I have to agree, being one that spends time on job sites daily, I am amazed for the level of education some places ask for very entry level jobs at very entry level pay, if a straight out of college person took a job like this thier educational debt would never be paid off unless serious advancement was had.
 
I work at a University but I do know that these places are guilty at times of offering something they can't deliver on. I particularly hate business schools for this, unfortunately they are fabulous money spinners for universities.

If you treat a university as a place to generate enthusiasm for a particular subject then they are fine...as places to get qualifications to GUARANTEE you a job, in this climate, not so much. Unfortunately due to many reasons (inflation of high school grades) a university degree is now the bare minimum qualification required for many positions. This is why Canada needs to be really careful in boasting about its employment rate. Most of the graduates these days are extremely UNDEREMPLOYED and the situation is getting worse.
 
jc100 said:
I work at a University but I do know that these places are guilty at times of offering something they can't deliver on. I particularly hate business schools for this, unfortunately they are fabulous money spinners for universities.
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Same actually -- and if I want to move up here, becoming a manager basically means you need your Masters, and to become a director you need a PH. D (or you better have 20+ years experience).

I guess too students jade me a little as well -- I see a lot of them (or recent grads I know) around here complaining about lack of money and jobs, meanwhile they costed through university, have a smartphone costing them $3000+ over 3 years, and driving around in a BMW paid for by the parental units. Some of them do need a reality check.
 
University is a lot like trade school if you're doing something like software development, since there's a clear path from the education to the employment. Although 90% of the stuff you learn in class isn't ever used in real life, the absolutely critical factor is to take an internship option. Ultimately, your degree alone is almost worthless, but an internship should be treated like a 16-month job interview. Work your *** off, and learn everything that school couldn't teach you.

If you don't have work experience through something like an internship your resume is going to get swallowed up in the crowd, and maybe you'll need to do a master's to have any chance to stand out. But to be totally honest, a master's degree with no work experience in this industry is a red flag for me now - we've been burned more than once by master's degrees that have great transcripts but who have fundamental problems when the answer isn't in a book.
 
Mr.Azim said:
^

I found University to be the "fend for yourself" education, but College was stupid easy (maybe because I went to Uni first). But the education in College (Paralegal) was 100% practical. The only thing I used from UofT was how to write papers/arguments (Philosophy/Poli-Sci). So I just used the literary and writing skills, but the practical content came from College alone.
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I completely agree with this. Went from a University math program where you pretty much teach yourself the stuff and get tested weekly to a super easy college tourism program. There is a huge difference between the two, college you could pass hungover the whole time and only going to half the class (from observation). I just got 3 acceptance letters for the Event Management program, hoping that will get me somewhere as I do find a bunch of job ads for that field, and my placement is also in it so I can say I have experience.
 
I went to Uni for engineering, and did a 1 year industry Masters. I loved it. I do love learning.

I also have found a job, and get job offers all the time. Yes, going to school does open up your possibilities. It is nothing but beneficial. I'm not arguing which is better, college vs trade school vs uni. But by itself, just going to university is great. How many jobs out there require a degree (and not meaning liberal arts degree, or any degree, I mean you actually need to know the ****** they taught you in uni)? the answer is TONS. Maybe I'm biased because I'm in Engineering, but there's a limitless pool of jobs you can get with an Engineering background.

There is also the problem of over-specializing and being too specific. Engineering is extremely broad. Every industry in the world needs engineers.

You also have to choose between doing something you love (or trying to) and making money. University was NOT a waste of time for me at all. And what did it cost me...what debt...? Working full time in the summer pretty much covers tuition and rent unless you're drinking every night. Try studying in the states......
 
Going to trade school isn't that easy too. My cousin had to get two diploma in a trade school to get a job, and he is still not working in any of those two field. He got his first diploma, to work in forestry (not sure of the real name in english, sorry), then got laid off, then became an electrician, got hired because he had two diploma. Got fired again (thank china), got hired to unload boat, paid about 3 times what he was paid before.

I'm doing unversity only because my job is paying for it if I pass, and I also want to change trade.
 
nfq said:
The world needs ditch diggers too.
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Very true, i guess many have the expectations after finishing their uni or college time to automatically spring board to the leather chair jobs.
 
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Jayv said:
Very true, i guess many have the expectations after finishing their uni or college time to automatically spring board to the leather chair jobs.
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Many of those with expectations of cloth chair jobs that will allow them to make a living end up being disappointed, too :cool:
 
It all starts with people understanding realistic life(style) expectations. What people get brainwashed into thinking is that if they aren't living the Kanye or Kardashian lifestyle, they're failures. You don't need the latest $700 smartphone or the latest 3-Series BMW.

People are confusing education with their ability to learn/progress and strive for their goals. Opportunity plays a huge part, but like was said a few posts above, if you're not trying to adapt then there is no opportunity. I know a lot of people making 30-40K/yr living like kings and people making 200k/yr barely making rent.

OpenGambit said it best, you have to have an idea of where you're headed and have a realistic sense of getting to that point.
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