Cheaper housing on the horizon?

this is a very western way of thinking.
Plan for the next day/week/quarter. Everything is so short sighted, and self serving

The eastern way is trying to think long term, plan for the next 100 years, and try to 'groupthink'


Maybe I've just been watching too much cobra kai.

Agreed; it was beaten into me and I still think that way. My actions have cascading consequences: 20 year old me setup both 30 year old me and my fiancee (who didn't meet at the time but knew I would eventually) to succeed. My parents have their death prepped and have setup my siblings and I for success in that event (instead of inheriting a massive bill, or fighting over ****.)

I'm also dead set on ending my bloodline so I'll setup my siblings (if they have kids) or my cousins (in a different country) for success before 40.

Imo, the Eastern way is better.
 
Crackdown on the rule bending, fraud, develop the land available now, improve infrastructure then tear apart the city. We also can't just look at densefication numbers compared to other cities that have real public transit, wider major roads, more than two sad highways into the core, etc.
If I understand correctly, Toronto sort of tried to do that but it is not going well. They tax some properties (commercial? only in specific corridors?) at highest and best use. You have a souvenir shop with a single apartment above being taxed as if it was a 50 storey tower. Souvenir shop can't afford the tax (or rent if they don't own the building as the owner passes them the tax) and it gets boarded up. Not a great solution.
 
stupid westerners, their 'freedom' will be their downfall, their greed has been used against them.
It reminds me of this scene:

That's so good lmaoooo

Gavin Belson swearing in Mandarin at the end is gold.
 
If I understand correctly, Toronto sort of tried to do that but it is not going well. They tax some properties (commercial? only in specific corridors?) at highest and best use. You have a souvenir shop with a single apartment above being taxed as if it was a 50 storey tower. Souvenir shop can't afford the tax (or rent if they don't own the building as the owner passes them the tax) and it gets boarded up. Not a great solution.
Their mistake is they tried to attack the symptom not the problem. Taxing empty buildings sounds good but higher levels of government need to address WHY they are empty.... queue foreign ownership, flippers, short term rental, speculators, tax fraud, money laundering, etc......
 
Infrastructure def cant handle it
Just drive on any major highway in the GTA and enjoy the constant traffic.
Or visit an emergency room and enjoy the long ass wait times,
Or buy a house anywhere in southern ontario

speculators"investors"/flippers/people exploiting tax loop holes are def part of the problem
But its easier to stick your head in the sand and pretend it isnt, when you yourself are involved in the housing casino
Investors are a double edged sword, when it comes to house prices. As investors enter the market they do bid up prices without creating additional real demand. Their purchase however puts some short term pressure on supply, which stimulates more starts, which increases supply which reduces prices. Investors own 20-22% of the housing stock -- as long as that stays stable they don't factor much in rising costs.

The thing is flippers don't increase the prices of houses, they increase the value. I guess you could argue if they weren't there buying shitholes to fix up, we'd have a lot more affordable shitholes.

Evading taxes is a separate problem, albeit a big one. Tax evasion on real estate might have a tiny impact on prices if the cheats reinvest in more houses rather than Lambos.

Long ass wait times are something you have to deal with when health care is publicly funded - most countries with fully socialized medicine suffer from this. When the country and province are already running record deficits, where do the funds come from to increase capacity?
 
Investors are a double edged sword, when it comes to house prices. As investors enter the market they do bid up prices without creating additional real demand. Their purchase however puts some short term pressure on supply, which stimulates more starts, which increases supply which reduces prices.
thats a lot of guesswork right there.

No amount of building can ever keep up with cheap credit and and speculators.
All it takes is a press of a button.


The thing is flippers don't increase the prices of houses, they increase the value.
They buy the house before flipping it, what do you think that does to the price of the houses?


I guess you could argue if they weren't there buying shitholes to fix up, we'd have a lot more affordable shitholes.
Wrong. the value of the house isnt the house. Its the land it sits on.
Seen plenty of bidding wars over shitholes.
People putting in offers verbally on the phone before even seeing the house.
 
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thats a lot of guesswork right there.
No, that's basic economics.
No amount of building can ever keep up with cheap credit and and speculators.
All it takes is a press of a button.



They buy the house before flipping it, what do you think that does to the price of the houses?
Hoses sell for market prices. A ******** will sell for less than a nice place. Buy a ********, make it nice and you're at a different price point. Investments were made, and returns were gained. Things are there aren't a lot of shitholes on the market anymore. that's the ship has sailed in the GTA. I dabble in regions where they were a dime a dozen 2 years ago, I can't find any of interest at the moment.
Wrong. the value of the house isnt the house. Its the land it sits on.
Seen plenty of bidding wars over shitholes.
People putting in offers verbally on the phone before even seeing the house.
The price of a house is land+building value. The land value does not change based on the building. The overall value of the combo goes up when a building is improved. Nothing happens to the value of the land it sits on.
 
As investors enter the market they do bid up prices without creating additional real demand. Their purchase however puts some short term pressure on supply, which stimulates more starts, which increases supply which reduces prices.
This is mostly a word salad, and a lot of pie in the sky wishful thinking. If this were accurate, supply would match demand, and we would have price stability, since ya know: "Their purchase however puts some short term pressure on supply, which stimulates more starts, which increases supply which reduces prices."

Except none of this is actually happening, at all.
At least not on any noticeable level, it certainly hasnt put a dent in the house prices.

So I will re-iterate, No amount of building can ever keep up with cheap credit and and speculators.

Hoses sell for market prices. A ******** will sell for less than a nice place. Buy a ********, make it nice and you're at a different price point. Investments were made, and returns were gained. Things are there aren't a lot of shitholes on the market anymore. that's the ship has sailed in the GTA. I dabble in regions where they were a dime a dozen 2 years ago, I can't find any of interest at the moment.
You didnt answer the simple question though, what does it do to house prices when everyone and their cousin is a flipper?

The amount of hackjobs I see passed off as renovations are a joke.
No bud, your coat of paint and bad flooring doesnt create 500k of value
The price of a house is land+building value. The land value does not change based on the building. The overall value of the combo goes up when a building is improved. Nothing happens to the value of the land it sits on.
Yes, except the land value constitutes the overwhelming majority of a houses' value .

Building houses is cheap.
 
The thing is flippers don't increase the prices of houses, they increase the value. I guess you could argue if they weren't there buying shitholes to fix up, we'd have a lot more affordable shitholes.

What is your definition of value? Painting walls and putting in the cheapest flooring available for those who don't know how to turn a screwdriver? I'd say that's increasing the price of the house by 100k or more in a few months.
Times have changed a bit, No more sh!tholes available anymore since there are so many that went into the flipping business full time. If there is one there is 30 offers and the highest offer leaves little room for profit on a quick flip, hence the cheap materials and hack jobs. A lot different than it was 20 years ago where an owner of a dumpy place would be thanking their lucky stars when they found a sucker to buy their place after it was sitting on the market for a couple months because no one wanted to touch it.
 
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This is mostly a word salad, and a lot of pie in the sky wishful thinking. If this were accurate, supply would match demand, and we would have price stability, since ya know: "Their purchase however puts some short term pressure on supply, which stimulates more starts, which increases supply which reduces prices."
Sorry for dumbing it down, I didn't mean it to be confusing.

Over the last 50 years, the average housing starts in Toronto were 31500/annum. Acceleration over the last 10 years has brought that average to that at 36600. 2021 was something like 50,000.

Except none of this is actually happening, at all.
At least not on any noticeable level, it certainly hasnt put a dent in the house prices.
You can\t really say that. Imagine if the average held at 35000 starts, that would mean 45,000 or so fewer homes available over the last 3 years. That would 1/2 the already low vacancy rate in Toronto.
So I will re-iterate, No amount of building can ever keep up with cheap credit and and speculators.


You didnt answer the simple question though, what does it do to house prices when everyone and their cousin is a flipper?
Eeveryone and their cousin isn't a flipper. The number of homes in the hands of owners has remained constant, around 22% in the GTA. Do us a favor and find 3 places in Toronto that could be bought and flipped for a gain - use neighbrhood comps to show us the profits.
The amount of hackjobs I see passed off as renovations are a joke.
No bud, your coat of paint and bad flooring doesnt create 500k of value
Caveat Emptor.
Yes, except the land value constitutes the overwhelming majority of a houses' value .

Building houses is cheap.
Not sure about that. If you\re talking about row houses in areas that permit them, then yes -- but not all that cheap. Even a cheap build today is running $200/sq + $50K in fees. That puts a 1500sq townie at $350K build cost before land and profit.

My hood is under a lot of redevelopment pressure, small scale builders buy perfectly good mid century houses on big lots and crush them. The typical village lot would fit 4-6 1500sq link homes that would sell for $1.M each (like the ones in the new development 1000m east of me). Builder's can't do that -- the City of Markham zoning limits builders options to 1 house per lot so 5000sq'+ monsters are the only options. When I sell, a dozer will crash my place down, a year later a monster will be built and sold for $4-5M.

Trust me, builders would rather bet on the 4 row houses than the monster home any day --- but that would offend my NIMBY neighbors and town councilors who live in the village hood.

Take a Google walk down this street.-- or this one. 5 years ago every house was a mid century bungalo less than 1100sq'. EVERY HOUSE. There are only 2 standing now, the others gone since Google last mapped the street. You can get one in the $4-5M range.
 
What is your definition of value? Painting walls and putting in the cheapest flooring available for those who don't know how to turn a screwdriver? I'd say that's increasing the price of the house by 100k or more in a few months.
Times have changed a bit, No more sh!tholes available anymore since there are so many that went into the flipping business full time. If there is one there is 30 offers and the highest offer leaves little room for profit on a quick flip, hence the cheap materials and hack jobs. A lot different than it was 20 years ago where an owner of a dumpy place would be thanking their lucky stars when they found a sucker to buy their place after it was sitting on the market for a couple months because no one wanted to touch it.
Yup. The ship has sailed on cheap flips. They're even hard to find in the sticks these days.
 
That's not the intention. While a small number of homes will become heritage, NIMBYs regularly obstruct new projects using heritage studies knowing full well they are frivolous. No quashing public consults either, just streamlining with rules and reasonable timetables. 10 years ago a committee of adjustments would hear applications once a month. Today counselors can defer minor variance applications by months - years -, by simply being absent from meetings. I think it's fair to have reasonable timetables for decisions, and rules that constrain frivolous obstruction and delay tactics.
Considering developers have recently bulldozed some 150+ year old heritage properties to build subdivisions near Hamilton despite efforts to save the properties, and the big fight over the brick warehouses near the junction in Toronto, this is more than just about 'streamlining' the process. Heritage buildings get in the way of quick turnover on land acquisition, and you're either wilfully ignorant or naive if you think developers aren't going to use reduced heritage regulation to their advantage. We already have so little protection.

Reasonable timetables is great. Using accelerated timetables to force through development before communities can have their say is not. Considering how beholden to developers this Ford government is, I have zero faith that this is just about ensuring timely discussion.

That's urban sprawl. Our problem is we're having trouble with intensification, better use, and redevelopment of existing space and sweating existing infrastructure.

I think transportation and congestion issues are a result of segregating commercial/industrial areas far away from residential areas. The public transit network is reasonable in the GTA, sadly it's a schmozzle of systems and operators, and struggles with cost due to poor operational efficiencies.
But urban sprawl is a huge part of the problem, especially if panic-adding housing is seen as part of the solution. Adding lots more units is great, but it only makes sense to add them in a way that doesn't create huge issues in the future. Toronto commute times are among the worst in the world, and for no reason besides poor planning and integration. And by far the fastest way to add dwelling units is in high-density towers, not single-family housing. But adding high-density requires concentrating infrastructure upgrades.

Also, considering the size and geography of Toronto, the public transit options are laughably bad, nowhere near reasonable, and among the worst in the developed world at this scale. You will never improve this by just adding bus routes, as the biggest advantage of transit is skating past the traffic jam.

The reason transit and housing go hand-in-hand is that transit is the single most difficult and costly infrastructure upgrade to implement when simultaneously trying to create supply in a sustainable fashion. Just blindly adding units at developer discretion not only doesn't solve the existing problems, it creates a myriad of other issues. Without a plan to integrate the huge number of new units into existing areas, you end up with uncontrolled urban sprawl.

There are plenty of transit solutions available, but Toronto has been crippled by back-and-forth mayoral and provincial nonsense. When they finally did get something built, it was done out of political expedience and convenience, not need. Having live near the Skytrain in Vancouver, I'm mystified by the refusal of the much more cost-effective elevated rail options here, opponents of which seem to spend more time talking about the Gardiner than actual existing rail systems.

OK, what about York Region? They have their YRT with dedicated surface routes, an army of modern busses, many of them high-capacity articulated beauties. The system was installed ahead of the clustered Markham Center and Vaughan center development. It's not uncommon to see a 100 passenger bus rolling thru town empty. The GO trains that pass thru town have lost 90% of it's ridership in the last 2 years yet it's still pulling it's max 10 double-decker cars - they could get by with one.
I can't speak to York specifically as I mostly avoid the place, but a quick Google suggests at least the Vaughan centre development is exactly the sort of thing I'm advocating. That said, measuring transit usage by seeing an empty bus is not exactly useful, nor is looking at GO usage during Covid, when most are trying to avoid crowded spaces. Making plans based around covid demands is as smart as buying a house in the sticks on the assumption that one's job will be online forever more...

If people live in houses that have poor transit service, they have to drive anyway, and driving to switch to transit is often extremely difficult due to limited and/or expensive parking costs. Giving people crap transit and then saying they don't use transit so there's no point in adding more transit is as backwards as demanding the TTC turn a profit when no such requirement is made for the fully subsidised road network. Paying for these services via taxes is one of those governmental loss leaders that generates positive economic activity that more than pays for the initial outlay.

(I recall the BC Liberals making a similar demand of BC Ferries, which forced the system to drastically increase ferry ticket prices. This added cost drove down usership, which forced them to again hike prices. This mostly destroyed the tourist activity on Vancouver Island, putting a whole swathe of businesses under, and costing the government more in lost tax revenue than the initial ferry subsidy had cost them in the first place.)

It currently takes me best case 2-3 hours to take transit from the lower city in Hamilton to downtown Toronto at rush hour. The express trains stop running between 5:20 am and 9 am eastbound, and between 3:30 pm and 7:30 pm westbound, which suggests the issue is capacity, not demand. I attend a number of meetings downtown, and would happily park my company truck to avoid the bumper-to-bumper on the QEW/Gardiner and the downtown s**t show, but I can't justify the time cost.

I don't see public transportation or tract housing as issues. Toronto has 1/5th the density of NYC, The challenge is how to eliminate unreasonable obstacles and frivolous delay mechanisms. Both will speed up the solution and reduce costs.
But Toronto can't continue to grow at the pace it is while maintaining the same low density. It's just not sustainable on any number of levels. We need to start finding a way to get closer to NYC density, or we face more of the same: insanely high housing costs combined with insanely high commute costs. And reducing costs only makes sense if it's a true reduction, not just kicking the can down the road and creating an exponentially higher cost for taxpayers later...
 
Considering developers have recently bulldozed some 150+ year old heritage properties to build subdivisions near Hamilton despite efforts to save the properties, and the big fight over the brick warehouses near the junction in Toronto, this is more than just about 'streamlining' the process. Heritage buildings get in the way of quick turnover on land acquisition, and you're either wilfully ignorant or naive if you think developers aren't going to use reduced heritage regulation to their advantage. We already have so little protection.

Reasonable timetables is great. Using accelerated timetables to force through development before communities can have their say is not. Considering how beholden to developers this Ford government is, I have zero faith that this is just about ensuring timely discussion.


But urban sprawl is a huge part of the problem, especially if panic-adding housing is seen as part of the solution. Adding lots more units is great, but it only makes sense to add them in a way that doesn't create huge issues in the future. Toronto commute times are among the worst in the world, and for no reason besides poor planning and integration. And by far the fastest way to add dwelling units is in high-density towers, not single-family housing. But adding high-density requires concentrating infrastructure upgrades.

Also, considering the size and geography of Toronto, the public transit options are laughably bad, nowhere near reasonable, and among the worst in the developed world at this scale. You will never improve this by just adding bus routes, as the biggest advantage of transit is skating past the traffic jam.

The reason transit and housing go hand-in-hand is that transit is the single most difficult and costly infrastructure upgrade to implement when simultaneously trying to create supply in a sustainable fashion. Just blindly adding units at developer discretion not only doesn't solve the existing problems, it creates a myriad of other issues. Without a plan to integrate the huge number of new units into existing areas, you end up with uncontrolled urban sprawl.

There are plenty of transit solutions available, but Toronto has been crippled by back-and-forth mayoral and provincial nonsense. When they finally did get something built, it was done out of political expedience and convenience, not need. Having live near the Skytrain in Vancouver, I'm mystified by the refusal of the much more cost-effective elevated rail options here, opponents of which seem to spend more time talking about the Gardiner than actual existing rail systems.


I can't speak to York specifically as I mostly avoid the place, but a quick Google suggests at least the Vaughan centre development is exactly the sort of thing I'm advocating. That said, measuring transit usage by seeing an empty bus is not exactly useful, nor is looking at GO usage during Covid, when most are trying to avoid crowded spaces. Making plans based around covid demands is as smart as buying a house in the sticks on the assumption that one's job will be online forever more...

If people live in houses that have poor transit service, they have to drive anyway, and driving to switch to transit is often extremely difficult due to limited and/or expensive parking costs. Giving people crap transit and then saying they don't use transit so there's no point in adding more transit is as backwards as demanding the TTC turn a profit when no such requirement is made for the fully subsidised road network. Paying for these services via taxes is one of those governmental loss leaders that generates positive economic activity that more than pays for the initial outlay.

(I recall the BC Liberals making a similar demand of BC Ferries, which forced the system to drastically increase ferry ticket prices. This added cost drove down usership, which forced them to again hike prices. This mostly destroyed the tourist activity on Vancouver Island, putting a whole swathe of businesses under, and costing the government more in lost tax revenue than the initial ferry subsidy had cost them in the first place.)

It currently takes me best case 2-3 hours to take transit from the lower city in Hamilton to downtown Toronto at rush hour. The express trains stop running between 5:20 am and 9 am eastbound, and between 3:30 pm and 7:30 pm westbound, which suggests the issue is capacity, not demand. I attend a number of meetings downtown, and would happily park my company truck to avoid the bumper-to-bumper on the QEW/Gardiner and the downtown s**t show, but I can't justify the time cost.


But Toronto can't continue to grow at the pace it is while maintaining the same low density. It's just not sustainable on any number of levels. We need to start finding a way to get closer to NYC density, or we face more of the same: insanely high housing costs combined with insanely high commute costs. And reducing costs only makes sense if it's a true reduction, not just kicking the can down the road and creating an exponentially higher cost for taxpayers later...
All single family houses by necessity have crap transit. The whole model is doomed to fail, it's not possible to get enough density close to a transit stop (or there are so many stops that transit barely beats walking). If you want functional transit you need at least townhouses and preferably towers. I have seen suggestions that we accelerate development. I agree, accelerating single family homes while being what people think they want to buy does almost nothing for affordability and hurts sustainability. Maybe allow fasttracking of higher density options while leave single family homes on the slow train? That may encourage people to build higher density.
 
Considering developers have recently bulldozed some 150+ year old heritage properties to build subdivisions near Hamilton despite efforts to save the properties, and the big fight over the brick warehouses near the junction in Toronto, this is more than just about 'streamlining' the process. Heritage buildings get in the way of quick turnover on land acquisition, and you're either wilfully ignorant or naive if you think developers aren't going to use reduced heritage regulation to their advantage. We already have so little protection.
I think this needs more explanation. Not everything old is considered 'heritage'. Saving every 150 year old farmhouse from the wrecking ball may be the goal for heritage buffs, but it's not necessary to preserve everything just because it's old. If that was the case most of Rural Ontario would have heritage designations -- including most of the barns you see falling down when you ride the countryside.

The recommendations do nothing to make heritage designation more grueling for qualifying properties, they propose making it difficult for those abusing the system by forcing unqualified structures thru a protracted review when the only goal is to delay the process.
Reasonable timetables is great. Using accelerated timetables to force through development before communities can have their say is not. Considering how beholden to developers this Ford government is, I have zero faith that this is just about ensuring timely discussion.
Reasonable timetables are proposed.
But urban sprawl is a huge part of the problem, especially if panic-adding housing is seen as part of the solution. Adding lots more units is great, but it only makes sense to add them in a way that doesn't create huge issues in the future. Toronto commute times are among the worst in the world, and for no reason besides poor planning and integration. And by far the fastest way to add dwelling units is in high-density towers, not single-family housing. But adding high-density requires concentrating infrastructure upgrades.
I think the proposal does not encourage urban sprawl. That ship has sailed, all the GTA lands that can be developed are already zoned, and a buffer greenbelt is already i place. Focus is on infilling and increasing density to catch up to demand in new build areas. Look at the new Markham Center, it's almost all high density urban, integrated transit routes, walkable entertainment district, shopping, industrial and commercial corridors. 41,000 residents in 20,000 units and 39,000 jobs -- on 240 acres. This would be near impossible in Toronto -- 2000m south.
Also, considering the size and geography of Toronto, the public transit options are laughably bad, nowhere near reasonable, and among the worst in the developed world at this scale. You will never improve this by just adding bus routes, as the biggest advantage of transit is skating past the traffic jam.
See above comments. Right now it's difficult to put a factory or industrial complex into a res neighbourhood, and politicians don't like to see industrial land converted to res. NIMBYs say no.
The reason transit and housing go hand-in-hand is that transit is the single most difficult and costly infrastructure upgrade to implement when simultaneously trying to create supply in a sustainable fashion. Just blindly adding units at developer discretion not only doesn't solve the existing problems, it creates a myriad of other issues. Without a plan to integrate the huge number of new units into existing areas, you end up with uncontrolled urban sprawl.
Toronto has a relatively unimpressive transit system when compared to other world class cities. It's not terrible, but it is mostly above ground busses which is terrible in a wintery place. The good news is it does not run at capacity, and the few areas where you can still get a little urban sprawl are building transit infrastructure ahead of housed and condos. Metrolinx, while still a little hayseed, is moving in a good direction.
There are plenty of transit solutions available, but Toronto has been crippled by back-and-forth mayoral and provincial nonsense. When they finally did get something built, it was done out of political expedience and convenience, not need. Having live near the Skytrain in Vancouver, I'm mystified by the refusal of the much more cost-effective elevated rail options here, opponents of which seem to spend more time talking about the Gardiner than actual existing rail systems.
I like the Skytrain concept. There is ample room to run a similar system in the space occupied by the 400, 401, 404 and 407 - stations could be plunked into cloverleafs. Way cheaper to build and operate than subways, only need 10' of land in either direction, could replace millions of car trips thru the city. Priller, I'm giving you the OK to proceed.
...

But Toronto can't continue to grow at the pace it is while maintaining the same low density. It's just not sustainable on any number of levels. We need to start finding a way to get closer to NYC density, or we face more of the same: insanely high housing costs combined with insanely high commute costs. And reducing costs only makes sense if it's a true reduction, not just kicking the can down the road and creating an exponentially higher cost for taxpayers later...
Agree. That means developers need concrete rules for things like sunshadows, greenspace, and transit access formulas -- not ones made up on the fly by councilors, and entered into frivolous challenges by NIMBYs.
 
And by far the fastest way to add dwelling units is in high-density towers, not single-family housing. But adding high-density requires concentrating infrastructure upgrades.
We live near Front & Jarvis so walk down to the waterfront often where all the new condos have been built. There's a big sign near Queens Quay & Freeland St. that's been there for years now - something along the lines of overwhelming demand and TDSB is doing its best to accommodate students in nearby schools (due to the obvious lack of schools in the area). So pretty much, build all the condos first and figure out where the kids go to school after... I've seen in the news recently that they've actually decided to put the much needed school IN a condo... "We have condos, we need a school, why not put the school IN a condo?!" "Ladies and gentlemen, give the man a raise!"

Then again, children are a rare sight on our walks. I suppose many leave this part of the city when they plan to have kids - all we see are dogs everywhere, and I mean everywhere - even where it says "No Dogs Allowed" - still, somehow, becomes an off-leash dog park...

The Esplanade seems like a success story to me. I don't know much about the history but it's pretty clear that whatever plan they came up with for affordable housing in the 70s makes for a thriving community there today. I see life - lots of green space, people interacting, kids out playing, teenagers in the basketball courts, regulars at St. Lawrence Market... Would be nice if there was more of that to give people that aren't millionaires a chance.. I think there's a plan for something similar in Port Lands soon, a certain percentage anyway, but I have my doubts on whether it will serve those that need it most... And at this rate, there will be a bloodbath for the units that go on sale to the general public...
 
To lighten the mood and to celebrate my 40 year old town house having a neighbor that sold for 1 million with about $450 in condo fees

 
New Zealand banned foreign purchases in 2018....has not made housing more affordable.


Monetizing shelter is a recipe for social disaster. Some countries have a mix of social and private housing that damps bubbles from forming when there are not enough being built.

Some nations are fighting it successfully

1989 saw housing prices drop 40% in Toronto.
scareyrollercoaster.jpg
wonder when the second shoe will drop? :coffee:
 
Agreed; it was beaten into me and I still think that way. My actions have cascading consequences: 20 year old me setup both 30 year old me and my fiancee (who didn't meet at the time but knew I would eventually) to succeed. My parents have their death prepped and have setup my siblings and I for success in that event (instead of inheriting a massive bill, or fighting over ****.)

I'm also dead set on ending my bloodline so I'll setup my siblings (if they have kids) or my cousins (in a different country) for success before 40.

Imo, the Eastern way is better.
I’ve got 3 kids that’ll need a super cool rich uncle….I’ll add @Evoex to this discussion as we can be family tomorrow!
 
1989 saw housing prices drop 40% in Toronto.
View attachment 53405
wonder when the second shoe will drop? :coffee:
The thing with the absolute crazy appreciation is a 40% drop only removes a year or two of appreciation. If you didnt buy in the last two years, your paper worth takes a hit but not much changes. What percentage of dwellings changed hands in the last two years?
 
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