Cheaper housing on the horizon?

Most builders have a lot of land already purchased and sitting idle with a 5-10 year plan in place for their next developments....I'm sure 3/4's of Milton and surrounding farm land was purchased mid to late 90's and it has no sign of stopping developing the Farm field beside X development, and the one next to that...not sure how you're going to pry lucrative profits out of the greedy builders hands even though the field was purchased at pennies on todays dollar. They were making money when the new builds in Milton were at the 2-300k mark...how much are they making today at the million dollar +
 
nothing will happen, too many people tied up into the housing casino, everyone is drinking the koolaid.

The same speeches and promises were made in the previous snap election.

No matter what some taskforce or study group says.

Its time to accept the reality that there will forever be a permanent underclass of people(people who didnt enter the housing market decades ago, or who dont have parents who did)


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Interesting that so many of these recommendations are so developer-friendly, with lots of focus on eliminating those pesky heritage designations and quashing opportunities for public consultation. We destroyed most of our architectural history through the '70s and '80s, might as well finish the job...

The issue isn't that property development isn't profitable enough, it's that the easiest money is in selling poorly made matchstick subdivision houses on conveniently pre-cleared farmland with no responsibility for the larger infrastructure needs or food supply consequences those developments create. It also ignores how we have a significant skilled labour shortage in construction at the moment (particularly on the concrete mid- and high-rise side), which is slowing construction as much as anything...

The biggest problem from a zoning standpoint is that decades upon decades of neglecting public transit in and around Toronto has resulted in any meaningful density solutions being very expensive and only fixable over a long window. By adding dedicated rail transit (buses get stuck in traffic, and don't have the capacity needed), you can hugely increase density and add dwellings at a much faster pace without creating other issues around infrastructure and traffic. By waiting until areas are already fully developed, the cost is becomes astronomical and involves displacing lots of unhappy people who fight tooth and nail not to be evicted or have their property values affected.

By contrast, Vancouver has been much more proactive, building Skytrain lines as a means to promote development instead of waiting until there are overloads in areas and then trying reactively to serve them. The lines and stations get built at the same time as the high-rises (pre-sold, naturally), so that as the station opens, people move in. You can pick out the stations from the air by looking for the clumps of 30+ storey high-rises at each one, all built with one coherent plan. Having these pockets of huge density also allows for a much higher percentage of dwellings with reasonable commutes and/or no need for car ownership, thus making the housing more affordable in overall terms. Adding planned commercial and retail space on the street level also makes these pockets much more livable, with groceries, cafes, restaurants, and small storefronts all walkable for the residents.

Of course, all this requires a grand plan with a long-term vision. This isn't something that Toronto excels at, preferring to let individual developers lobby to reap the fattest profit today, damn the future. Better to knock down all those expensive heritage buildings, steamroll any sort of community concerns, and make the fastest buck possible. Colour me cynical, but I think this has a lot less to do with addressing housing prices and a lot more to do with helping out the developer lobby...
 
And on top of what @Priller mentioned... a lot of those measures aren't popular with the suburbanites (sadly) which can alienate a lot of votes. The LRT in Mississauga gets flack all the time from the people in my area (South Mississauga). You'll see people in the comments say things like "who uses public transit, i never will and my neighbours won't"
There are a lot of people who are lucky enough (may i say privileged enough) to never have taken regular city transit. The buses are full around rush hour but they don't see it?! I mean even when i drive and happen to stop at a red light close to a bus i turn my head and can see a full bus...

My area is getting brightwater and lakeview village within the next 5-10 years, a good amount of densification is happening in it as well (townhouses, condos) i dont think theres a single detached house planned for either.
So rapid bus transit is being planned... and more efficient ways to move more people around too. But proper infrastructure is KEY in making those densification projects work
 
Interesting that so many of these recommendations are so developer-friendly, with lots of focus on eliminating those pesky heritage designations and quashing opportunities for public consultation. We destroyed most of our architectural history through the '70s and '80s, might as well finish the job...
That's not the intention. While a small number of homes will become heritage, NIMBYs regularly obstruct new projects using heritage studies knowing full well they are frivolous. No quashing public consults either, just streamlining with rules and reasonable timetables. 10 years ago a committee of adjustments would hear applications once a month. Today counselors can defer minor variance applications by months - years -, by simply being absent from meetings. I think it's fair to have reasonable timetables for decisions, and rules that constrain frivolous obstruction and delay tactics.

The issue isn't that property development isn't profitable enough, it's that the easiest money is in selling poorly made matchstick subdivision houses on conveniently pre-cleared farmland with no responsibility for the larger infrastructure needs or food supply consequences those developments create. It also ignores how we have a significant skilled labour shortage in construction at the moment (particularly on the concrete mid- and high-rise side), which is slowing construction as much as anything...
That's urban sprawl. Our problem is we're having trouble with intensification, better use, and redevelopment of existing space and sweating existing infrastructure.
The biggest problem from a zoning standpoint is that decades upon decades of neglecting public transit in and around Toronto has resulted in any meaningful density solutions being very expensive and only fixable over a long window. By adding dedicated rail transit (buses get stuck in traffic, and don't have the capacity needed), you can hugely increase density and add dwellings at a much faster pace without creating other issues around infrastructure and traffic. By waiting until areas are already fully developed, the cost is becomes astronomical and involves displacing lots of unhappy people who fight tooth and nail not to be evicted or have their property values affected.
I think transportation and congestion issues are a result of segregating commercial/industrial areas far away from residential areas. The public transit network is reasonable in the GTA, sadly it's a schmozzle of systems and operators, and struggles with cost due to poor operational efficiencies.
By contrast, Vancouver has been much more proactive, building Skytrain lines as a means to promote development instead of waiting until there are overloads in areas and then trying reactively to serve them. The lines and stations get built at the same time as the high-rises (pre-sold, naturally), so that as the station opens, people move in. You can pick out the stations from the air by looking for the clumps of 30+ storey high-rises at each one, all built with one coherent plan. Having these pockets of huge density also allows for a much higher percentage of dwellings with reasonable commutes and/or no need for car ownership, thus making the housing more affordable in overall terms. Adding planned commercial and retail space on the street level also makes these pockets much more livable, with groceries, cafes, restaurants, and small storefronts all walkable for the residents.

Of course, all this requires a grand plan with a long-term vision. This isn't something that Toronto excels at, preferring to let individual developers lobby to reap the fattest profit today, damn the future. Better to knock down all those expensive heritage buildings, steamroll any sort of community concerns, and make the fastest buck possible. Colour me cynical, but I think this has a lot less to do with addressing housing prices and a lot more to do with helping out the developer lobby...
OK, what about York Region? They have their YRT with dedicated surface routes, an army of modern busses, many of them high-capacity articulated beauties. The system was installed ahead of the clustered Markham Center and Vaughan center development. It's not uncommon to see a 100 passenger bus rolling thru town empty. The GO trains that pass thru town have lost 90% of it's ridership in the last 2 years yet it's still pulling it's max 10 double-decker cars - they could get by with one.

I don't see public transportation or tract housing as issues. Toronto has 1/5th the density of NYC, The challenge is how to eliminate unreasonable obstacles and frivolous delay mechanisms. Both will speed up the solution and reduce costs.
 
Its time to accept the reality that there will forever be a permanent underclass of people(people who didnt enter the housing market decades ago, or who dont have parents who did)

Multigenerational mortgages. We're going the way of Asia.

Only reason why we won't: "MY RIGHTS!" lol
 
Multigenerational mortgages. We're going the way of Asia.

Only reason why we won't: "MY RIGHTS!" lol

I didnt even know this was a thing(and im from asia)

They're coming up all sorts of shady schemes these days(rent to own scams etc)
 
I didnt even know this was a thing(and im from asia)

They're coming up all sorts of shady schemes these days(rent to own scams etc)

I didn't either. Learned from a finance buddy. I was wondering why property there (Japan and Hong Kong were the examples) were so damn expensive and how they get paid off in a lifetime.

I get Japan and HK because they actually have space issues. But for us.....what the actual ****? There's got to be some manipulation going on.
 
I didn't either. Learned from a finance buddy. I was wondering why property there (Japan and Hong Kong were the examples) were so damn expensive and how they get paid off in a lifetime.

I get Japan and HK because they actually have space issues. But for us.....what the actual ****? There's got to be some manipulation going on.
UK has had 99 year mortgages for decades. Basically renting as you pay so little principal but you aren't subject to the whims of landlords.
 
Canadian workers taking money under the table is a teeny tiny drop in the bucket of money laundering.

Not compared to Chinese nationals not declaring millions of dollars of income:


This shiite needs to end immediately.

Really good article, International students and offshore banking flagged in Canadian real estate money laundering | Globalnews.ca
 
International student RE investment should be limited to funds earned from arms length canadian employment. That is a giant stinking turd that no level of government wants to touch. They all want to pretend that those are domestic purchases.

EDIT:
Holy crap, I didn't realize they were that bold about the whole thing. Fundraising co-chair for sockboy himself. No wonder they are untouchable.
 
International student RE investment should be limited to funds earned from arms length canadian employment. That is a giant stinking turd that no level of government wants to touch. They all want to pretend that those are domestic purchases.

EDIT:
Holy crap, I didn't realize they were that bold about the whole thing. Fundraising co-chair for sockboy himself. No wonder they are untouchable.

Now the question becomes, if the government cuts off this torrent of money coming into the country, does the Canadian economy crater? I'm sure we all know people that have way overextended themselves to buy a first home, or investment properties. How many businesses do we have in Canada that thrive off the foreign money coming in?

If the tap gets shut off, does that lead to a massive depression?
 
Now the question becomes, if the government cuts off this torrent of money coming into the country, does the Canadian economy crater? I'm sure we all know people that have way overextended themselves to buy a first home, or investment properties. How many businesses do we have in Canada that thrive off the foreign money coming in?

If the tap gets shut off, does that lead to a massive depression?

Yes it will

 
Now the question becomes, if the government cuts off this torrent of money coming into the country, does the Canadian economy crater? I'm sure we all know people that have way overextended themselves to buy a first home, or investment properties. How many businesses do we have in Canada that thrive off the foreign money coming in?

If the tap gets shut off, does that lead to a massive depression?
It won't be off, just slowed down a bunch. It may also hurt the private secondary schools and universities as international students go to other countries where their money can be more easily laundered. It should have been done decades ago. The politicians actively manipulated data to ensure data on student purchases remained hidden. If a business is only viable due to money laundering, it is not a viable business and should be allowed to fail. The longer you wait, the bigger the shock when you finally enforce international law. At some point, twinkletoes could end up getting hammered by one of the big international bodies that he loves to coddle up to (IMF, G8, etc) and forced to fix things. With oversight, the correction will be much faster and a much bigger ripple. If something is done now, you can stretch the pain (which is why I say target students to start not all non-citizens at once).
 
We have discussed poorly built and poorly run/maintained condos. What kind of mess does all this make for people in 20 to 30 years.... taxpayer bailouts?

In Toronto there are developers buying up land then crying to the OMB that the bylaws say six story max, but they want to build 20+ stories, sometimes only a few meters away from single family homes, OMB gives them 12 or more.... The infrastructure cannot handle (roads/sewer/etc.) the density. As an example a buddy near Young and the 401 bought in (condo) early, after the surrounding buildings it took 30 minutes to exit his parking garage in the morning.... The people in the homes and existing condos get screwed (way beyond NIMBYISM). The developer makes out like a bandit. Then people get to buy poorly built condos....

No easy answers, but instead of just handing keys to developers to rip cities apart maybe we need to start with reform on flippers, foreign money, capgains tax cheats, short term rental, etc. Low hanging fruit.

As I said, the entire platform is giving into developers while making it sound like they are helping the little man (or in Doug speak, the folks).
 
Now the question becomes, if the government cuts off this torrent of money coming into the country, does the Canadian economy crater? I'm sure we all know people that have way overextended themselves to buy a first home, or investment properties. How many businesses do we have in Canada that thrive off the foreign money coming in?

If the tap gets shut off, does that lead to a massive depression?
Canada is dependent on immigration for a few reasons, but in the end they are all part of the economy.

1) We need workers, immigration targets those who can fill needed jobs - and the problem is getting worse as the overall population ages, retiring from the workforce and living longer.
2) We need foreign investment for job creation (which circles back to #1)
3) Foreign workers need to live somewhere - we need investment for housebuilding (which supports #2)

Toying with immigration won't be a quick fix to housing costs.
 
We have discussed poorly built and poorly run/maintained condos. What kind of mess does all this make for people in 20 to 30 years.... taxpayer bailouts?

In Toronto there are developers buying up land then crying to the OMB that the bylaws say six story max, but they want to build 20+ stories, sometimes only a few meters away from single family homes, OMB gives them 12 or more.... The infrastructure cannot handle (roads/sewer/etc.) the density. As an example a buddy near Young and the 401 bought in (condo) early, after the surrounding buildings it took 30 minutes to exit his parking garage in the morning.... The people in the homes and existing condos get screwed (way beyond NIMBYISM). The developer makes out like a bandit. Then people get to buy poorly built condos....

No easy answers, but instead of just handing keys to developers to rip cities apart maybe we need to start with reform on flippers, foreign money, capgains tax cheats, short term rental, etc. Low hanging fruit.

As I said, the entire platform is giving into developers while making it sound like they are helping the little man (or in Doug speak, the folks).
Where you say developers, you should say developers/government. They all want their money today and to hell with the ponzi scheme that will collapse in the future.

EOL condos have always interested me. I've never seen one go through the process (either redevelopment, rebuilding or dissolution).
 
Yes it will


Agreed.

Canada has one of the dumbest economies I've invested in and the portfolio shows. Literally the lowest gains out of every index I have.
 
Agreed.

Canada has one of the dumbest economies I've invested in and the portfolio shows. Literally the lowest gains out of every index I have.
I don't buy general canadian index funds. Horrible returns and if the dollar goes in the crapper (quite likely) the worldwide purchasing power of the money in the fund goes with it.
 
We have discussed poorly built and poorly run/maintained condos. What kind of mess does all this make for people in 20 to 30 years.... taxpayer bailouts?
Nope. Blow them up and build again. If you live in a poorly run condo and can't stand the fees or thought of an assessment, just leave. Gov't is not here to bail you out.

In Toronto there are developers buying up land then crying to the OMB that the bylaws say six story max, but they want to build 20+ stories, sometimes only a few meters away from single family homes, OMB gives them 12 or more.... The infrastructure cannot handle (roads/sewer/etc.) the density. As an example a buddy near Young and the 401 bought in (condo) early, after the surrounding buildings it took 30 minutes to exit his parking garage in the morning.... The people in the homes and existing condos get screwed (way beyond NIMBYISM). The developer makes out like a bandit. Then people get to buy poorly built condos....
Developers aren't breaking the rules -- they are fighting obstructionists a lot of the time. I don't believe the infrastructure "can't handle it", residents can't handle it. They want all the benefits of an urban core location AND the benefits of a quiet suburban estate. If I were to locate along Yonge St, I'd probably evaluate the usefulness of a car before buying.
No easy answers, but instead of just handing keys to developers to rip cities apart maybe we need to start with reform on flippers, foreign money, capgains tax cheats, short term rental, etc. Low hanging fruit.

As I said, the entire platform is giving into developers while making it sound like they are helping the little man (or in Doug speak, the folks).
I agree there are no easy answers, I disagree that flippers, developers, and STAs are the reason for crazy prices. It boils down to supply and demand -- and right now were sold out of houses in the GTA. Restocking the shelves is the only realistic solution, to do that we have to speed up and reduce the cost of the building process by removing nonsense obstructionists.

That doesn't mean you remove the rules and lower standards. You just make the rules for redevelopment clear and take the silly options NIMBYs use to delay progress.
 

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