Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!! | Page 86 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

There was a proper study done on it, in a couple west coast US cities but I read it years ago. Can't find the link now. The gist of it was that buses also slow traffic in a similar manner. They're clearly not as great of an obstruction, but they often have more stops and when you have 3-4 buses in place of a streetcar, the aggregate effect is greater.

HOWEVER, the biggest issue is actually infrastructure, more so than the vehicle. Dedicated right-of-ways, special turn signals, other intersection controls and the like make a way bigger difference than choice of surface vehicle. Those of course have impacts on car traffic, but at least SOMETHING'S moving (right now both car traffic AND streetcars/buses are slow in problem areas).

The problem is that in Toronto, the only room for those in many places is underground. Since we're trying to do all of this on the cheap, we cannibalized surface lanes instead. Whether we use streetcars/light rail or subways, the only real noticeable improvement in traffic will come with significantly more tunnelling. Interestingly, bus tunnels are usually more expensive than streetcar tunnels because they need more access exits, better venting, etc.

We flat-out cannot afford that without federal (and provincial) funding or crippling tax increases.

I know it was a massive cluster**** during development, but Boston's big dig is an incredibly impressive project that makes driving in that city an absolute joy.

It's crazy expensive, but that's the type of project that Toronto needs for the future. Downtown traffic is already at critical mass and will only get worse and worse as more people move into the GTA.
 
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Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I know it was a massive clusterfuk during development, but Boston's big dig is an incredibly impressive project that makes driving in that city an absolute joy.

It's crazy expensive, but that's the type of project that Toronto needs for the future. Downtown traffic is already at critical mass and will only get worse and worse as more people move into the GTA.

It's the type of project Toronto won't have a choice BUT to do, if things don't change.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

we have no money

Well there's apparently enough money that the city can spend almost $100M on an also-ran sporting competition that may or may not provide opportunities for civic improvement, after thoroughly screwing up access for 2 weeks. I plan on taking vacation then.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

we have no money

There's always money to be found. When they open the express tunnel viaduct that bypasses the city, they can call it the Bell-Rogers-PizzaPizza-Pepsi-TimHortons express for all I care.

There's always money to be found. It's getting enough people to buy into the decision that's the problem.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Saving money for huge future expenditures only makes sense if the current spending isn't needed. That The Gardiner was dropping big chunks of concrete on cars, before Ford ever took the mayoral seat, shows that money needed to be spent.

I can easily demonstrate that Miller didn't spend enough on infrastructure with a simple statement; he was spending money on non core projects, like the ones that I've previously stated, while things like the roads were in obvious disrepair. If my house is burning down I don't sit and figure out how much money I should spend on appliances, let alone Netflix downloads.

The amount that bicycles use infrastructure is immaterial, if that infrastructure doesn't exist. 1/9600th of nothing is what?

Again, there's no indication that either Miller or Ford stopped maintenance on the Gardiner, (though Ford did stop progress on it's rehabilitation). That chunks were falling off the expressway in no way indicates that there was no money available to fix it, as there are many possible paths of failure that could lead to that outcome. If you want to blame anyone, you'll need to make the connections. As it stands, there is no connection.

According to your explanation, any money not spent on infrastructure is money wasted. I suppose you might believe that, but it's an ideological position and not a logical one. There will always be bad roads somewhere in the city, and what's more, cutting taxes through reduced services isn't going to get them fixed any faster. To do that, one would have to... wait for it... fix them faster! That requires not just money but also organisation, manpower, and time. Doing it cost efficiently takes even more time. Miller has a track record of efficiency, Ford has a track record of destruction.

I don't know what your point is about unpaved bike lanes. How many cars can you drive on no infrastructure?
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Hamilton's looking pretty good about now. Toronto lol.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Again, there's no indication that either Miller or Ford stopped maintenance on the Gardiner, (though Ford did stop progress on it's rehabilitation). That chunks were falling off the expressway in no way indicates that there was no money available to fix it, as there are many possible paths of failure that could lead to that outcome. If you want to blame anyone, you'll need to make the connections. As it stands, there is no connection.

According to your explanation, any money not spent on infrastructure is money wasted. I suppose you might believe that, but it's an ideological position and not a logical one. There will always be bad roads somewhere in the city, and what's more, cutting taxes through reduced services isn't going to get them fixed any faster. To do that, one would have to... wait for it... fix them faster! That requires not just money but also organisation, manpower, and time. Doing it cost efficiently takes even more time. Miller has a track record of efficiency, Ford has a track record of destruction.

I don't know what your point is about unpaved bike lanes. How many cars can you drive on no infrastructure?

I didn't say that there was no money available to fix The Gardiner. I said that there was a constant availability of such funds and that they were not spent. If you neglect something the later repairs are typically much more expensive, as such decay is not linear.

No, what I believe is that the primary purpose of a civic government is infrastructure and if that infrastructure is decaying, then they are failing at their primary duty. Significant spending on other things, at such a time, is abrogation of responsibility and begs an answer to the question as to what the reason for that neglect is.

And my point isn't about unpaved bike lanes. You appear to be choosing to be willfully ignorant. My point is that the side benefit of road infrastructure is that bicycles also get to use it, whether directly or in the form of bicycle lanes. They may cause far less wear and tear, but the drivers tend to pay for the roads. How many bicycles can you ride on no roads at all? What does the wear and tear on those BIKES become then? Bicycles are nice and all, but they aren't the primary movers and won't be, unless we have $20.00/L gas. And no, that was just a number that p I pulled out of my butt, so don't bother wasting your time on making me prove that.
 
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Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Well, that was inevitable.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I didn't say that there was no money available to fix The Gardiner. I said that there was a constant availability of such funds and that they were not spent. If you neglect something the later repairs are typically much more expensive, as such decay is not linear.

No, what I believe is that the primary purpose of a civic government is infrastructure and if that infrastructure is decaying, then they are failing at their primary duty. Significant spending on other things, at such a time, is abrogation of responsibility and begs an answer to the question as to what the reason for that neglect is.

And my point isn't about unpaved bike lanes. You appear to be choosing to be willfully ignorant. My point is that the side benefit of road infrastructure is that bicycles also get to use it, whether directly or in the form of bicycle lanes. They may cause far less wear and tear, but the drivers tend to pay for the roads. How many bicycles can you ride on no roads at all? What does the wear and tear on those BIKES become then? Bicycles are nice and all, but they aren't the primary movers and won't be, unless we have $20.00/L gas. And no, that was just a number that p I pulled out of my butt, so don't bother wasting your time on making me prove that.

No funds / unused funds, same difference. If the funds were available and not immediately used how is that a blight on Miller?

Infrastructure is constantly decaying, the tipping point is when it becomes a threat to the health of the city. The Gardiner has been at that point for decades, and Miller had a plan and funding to fix it. I don't know what more anyone can do. Ford immediately put an end to the plan's progress. I don't know how anyone could do more damage than he did, other than actually carpet bombing the Gardiner.

It's stunning that you seem to believe that because road design has neglected to account for cyclists for generations, that somehow cyclists are less entitled to use it! Before cars, there were more than enough road, rail and pathways for everyone. If everyone found an alternate mode of transportation, the roads would be virtually deserted. The inefficiency of cars costs everyone through a variety of taxes, not just gas tax. In particular, municipal roads are largely paid for by property taxes. Besides, the number of cyclists who own cars more than make up for the cost of roads for cyclists who never drive. It's retarded that drivers aren't screaming thanks to every cyclist they drive by to thank them for supporting their lame ***es.

You'd prefer that all cyclists drive? You seriously think you personally, or anyone, would be better off? That's willful ignorance!
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

What a waste of money.
Tell me somebody's friend did not cash out on this.
http://torontoist.com/2009/06/simcoe_wavedeck/

simcoewave_4.jpg
simcowave_1.jpg

simcoewave_2.jpg
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Again, there's no indication that either Miller or Ford stopped maintenance on the Gardiner, (though Ford did stop progress on it's rehabilitation). That chunks were falling off the expressway in no way indicates that there was no money available to fix it, as there are many possible paths of failure that could lead to that outcome. If you want to blame anyone, you'll need to make the connections. As it stands, there is no connection.

According to your explanation, any money not spent on infrastructure is money wasted. I suppose you might believe that, but it's an ideological position and not a logical one. There will always be bad roads somewhere in the city, and what's more, cutting taxes through reduced services isn't going to get them fixed any faster. To do that, one would have to... wait for it... fix them faster! That requires not just money but also organisation, manpower, and time. Doing it cost efficiently takes even more time. Miller has a track record of efficiency, Ford has a track record of destruction.

I don't know what your point is about unpaved bike lanes. How many cars can you drive on no infrastructure?

No funds / unused funds, same difference. If the funds were available and not immediately used how is that a blight on Miller?

Infrastructure is constantly decaying, the tipping point is when it becomes a threat to the health of the city. The Gardiner has been at that point for decades, and Miller had a plan and funding to fix it. I don't know what more anyone can do. Ford immediately put an end to the plan's progress. I don't know how anyone could do more damage than he did, other than actually carpet bombing the Gardiner.

It's stunning that you seem to believe that because road design has neglected to account for cyclists for generations, that somehow cyclists are less entitled to use it! Before cars, there were more than enough road, rail and pathways for everyone. If everyone found an alternate mode of transportation, the roads would be virtually deserted. The inefficiency of cars costs everyone through a variety of taxes, not just gas tax. In particular, municipal roads are largely paid for by property taxes. Besides, the number of cyclists who own cars more than make up for the cost of roads for cyclists who never drive. It's retarded that drivers aren't screaming thanks to every cyclist they drive by to thank them for supporting their lame ***es.

You'd prefer that all cyclists drive? You seriously think you personally, or anyone, would be better off? That's willful ignorance!

I'm trying to figure out where you got the mistaken impression that Miller had some great plan.
I had him as a Councillor and he was awful, didn't know about the west end of his ward, nevermind the rest of the city. It could be that he didn't forget where his support was, but I'd have to be extra cynical to think that.

As far as bicycle paths and cycling are concerned, some very dangerous things were done on Miller's watch.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I'm trying to figure out where you got the mistaken impression that Miller had some great plan.
I had him as a Councillor and he was awful, didn't know about the west end of his ward, nevermind the rest of the city. It could be that he didn't forget where his support was, but I'd have to be extra cynical to think that.

As far as bicycle paths and cycling are concerned, some very dangerous things were done on Miller's watch.

He didn't have a plan in the sense of "Here's what I'm gonna do with the Gardiner!" with pompoms and a dance routine. Instead he and council sought options on how to deal with it, chose the best of the bunch, started the planning of the project and they discovered that the true cost was going to be more than they had approved, so they had to cancel their plans. This was around '08-'09 from memory. Sorry that I don't have my sources. So they went back and asked for another set of options, and this was the point at which it was halted by The-Do-Nothing-Mayor-Who-Never-Needs-Help (aka best mayor EVAR!)

I read your criticisms of Miller, along with several others that followed, and none of them amount to anything. The road that was paved, patched, and repaved and re-patched could very well have been all at the contractor's expense. People blamed Miller for the lousy garbage bins, but that was the responsibility of Astral media. Their design, their maintenance agreement. Same would apply to whoever laid down the speed bumps if they were too high, if it wasn't city workers. I can't tell from what you said. Besides, I have yet to come across a speed bump that doesn't have scrapes along the top from cars hitting it. Saying "it ripped the cowling under the front off of several vehicles" is a long, long way from a scorching denunciation of Miller. He's not the paving guy! If there was waste, did anyone tell him? Did he try and deal with it? The Miller I know would have tried.

What were the dangerous things regarding cycling?
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

No funds / unused funds, same difference. If the funds were available and not immediately used how is that a blight on Miller?

This statement, right here, clearly demonstrates that it is impossible to carry on any meaningful debate with you. It shows a complete disconnect from reality. The rest of your statement is similarly meaningless and so warrants no further response.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Keep in mind everyone, fastar1 was the same poster in the Ontario Debt thread that kept saying "tell me what McGuinty did wrong?" Then people (myself included) would spell it out exactly how they wasted money and did in fact act in bad faith, lied and did unethical things... and then fastar1 would say...tell me what he did wrong. Apparently fastar1 had great difficulty understanding (or grasping) how the Liberals did anything that was at all unethical or wrong. The conclusion most of us formed there was either:

-He is VERY ethically challenged.
-He is just a troll.

I see no difference in this thread with his trumpeting of Miller "accomplishments."

For your reference:
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?169471-Ontarios-Debt/page4
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Why on earth is there that goofy u-shaped railing cutting everything off?
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Lawyers prolly got involved.
 

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