Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

[RetroGrouch]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Olivia Chow is a big question mark other than her known left-wing leanings (I don't mind left wing, but I have zero clue what she'd do in power - could easily be full of terrible ideas)

A bicycle lane on every street, a needle exchange clinic on every corner and low-rent social housing on prime real estate.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

A bicycle lane on every street, a needle exchange clinic on every corner and low-rent social housing on prime real estate.

A needle exchange or two wouldn't bother this particular fiscal conservative. Do you have any idea how much it costs to supply the AIDS drugs to just one infected person?

 

[Schneller]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Rob Ford:

 

[Mongrel]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

A needle exchange or two wouldn't bother this particular fiscal conservative. Do you have any idea how much it costs to supply the AIDS drugs to just one infected person?

Exactly. The only people against less harsh treatment of irrecoverable drug addicts are die-hard ideologues or people who have never seen the bill (I say 'seen' and not 'pay' because we're all paying already).

Even if it's not AIDS, there's any number of other conditions. Having some tuberculosis-infected homeless addict repeatedly crash the emergency rooms of local hospitals is a ridiculous expense or running up police calls. Some estimates have homeless folk costing society an average of $200,000 per person, per year, if you factor in all the real costs.

I'd be 100% in favour of a safe injection site (yes, even in my neighbourhood if it had to be - though there's probably a better place for one closer downtown), prescription dope, etc. etc. like they're trying to do in BC. That's not bleeding heart liberalism, that's the bottom line.


EDIT: Come to think of it, I bet you could find quite a few people who would defend Ford as "just human" or "nobody's perfect" while still being totally opposed to any government support for chronic drug or alcohol addicts.

 

[Mongrel]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

The issue with Stinz, for many, will be her 'backstabbing' of Ford.

Well, she won't be alone in that case. Just about the only people who HAVEN'T turned on him are his family members and Ford nation. Hell, as the Star proved with the rage-video purchase, people who were once close to him will now sell him down the river for as little as five grand.

 

[sonnythebull]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Exactly. The only people against less harsh treatment of irrecoverable drug addicts are die-hard ideologues or people who have never seen the bill (I say 'seen' and not 'pay' because we're all paying already).

Even if it's not AIDS, there's any number of other conditions. Having some tuberculosis-infected homeless addict repeatedly crash the emergency rooms of local hospitals is a ridiculous expense or running up police calls. Some estimates have homeless folk costing society an average of $200,000 per person, per year, if you factor in all the real costs.

I'd be 100% in favour of a safe injection site (yes, even in my neighbourhood if it had to be - though there's probably a better place for one closer downtown), prescription dope, etc. etc. like they're trying to do in BC. That's not bleeding heart liberalism, that's the bottom line.

I would llike injection sites where we lure them in grab them and lock them in a room with food,water and medical care in order to kick, then put a monitoring bracelet with GPS and sweat analysis to tell if they are using again, if yes, grab em up and throw them in the room again until they are clean. Rinse and repeat.

 

[LiNK666]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

It's funny, they build the homeless shelters and then just say "there you go" to the homeless people, but never really try to improve their lives by getting them back on their own feet and supporting themselves.

I know a few business owners including a timmies owner that has a store near a homeless shelter. They go in and start using their washrooms to take baths. They will try to sleep and loiter in there. They have to call the police once a week. Because of all of this they lose business as people don't want to go in there.

I would like a program where they instead would try to give the homeless person a home, clothes, shower and basic amenities to survive and make it conditional they have to re-educate themselves to re-integrate into society as a contributing member. This is more costlier, longer and harder, but the outcome is more sustainable. You can have these people do jobs regular folks don't want to do such as cleaning up parks and areas of cities. Business could hire them to do basic cleaning and maintenance as long as they were re-educated into presenting themselves professionally etc...

Right now, I'm working with a school to do co-op for developmentally challenged kids learn to do basic maintenance in my stores. I plan on hiring them afterwards and integrating them into my work force. Instead of them sitting around atleast they can be productive and make small amounts of money. There is a demand for this kind of thing too. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find someone to come in for 2-3 hrs during peak times to do basic cleaning.

 

[RetroGrouch]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Many people become homeless due to addictions and/or mental illness, not exactly the employable types. In a perfect world, yes we would all pitch in to help them live a basic level of comfort. But it just doesn't work that way in reality.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Can this be the first in a long line of frivolous lawsuits!? I want my $2 back from the crack smoking mayor dammit!

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ion_lawsuit_being_prepared_against_mayor.html

Not sure I agree with the law suit, though it does seem like an unorthodox ways to make him leave office democratically (it does require the support of torontonians to proceed) buy hitting in his pocket book (as there seems no mechanism to have him leave office any other way. I just hope Toronto doesn't have to foot the bill to defend him.

 

[Fiery254]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Just like the radio show. On page 60 of this thread I wondered who-cancelled-who, radio station or Fords. Now I wonder the same, what is the truth behind this TV cancellation?

And I don't mean the official story. The duration of the taping and posproduction can be controlled. There is something else.

A theory (not mine, a friend told me) is that an ongoing TV show (basically a commercial) may interfere with his reelection, because of municipal by-laws. Would anyone know if he can have a TV show promoting himself, at the same time he is running for mayor a second time?

Well, it wasn't cancelled because of ratings. Sun TV drew about 5 times their normal viewership for the Ford Gong Show.

 

[LiNK666]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Many people become homeless due to addictions and/or mental illness, not exactly the employable types. In a perfect world, yes we would all pitch in to help them live a basic level of comfort. But it just doesn't work that way in reality.

I understand and agree to it on some level, but you can't just say "here you go" and leave them be. You have try and integrate them on some level of society. If it's too dangerous then I can understand, but then don't leave them alone to wander the streets.

Here is my theory, option A was to build a shelter and leave them be. It was the cheaper solution than B, C or D and you felt good that you gave the needy a home. After that you close your eyes and look away thinking you've done a great deed. There are better solutions, you have to keep trying.

 

[fastar1]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

And the way that I see it, a leader doesn't have to be a spendthrift. You can motivate without picking the pocket. Miller may have tried to drag people along with his vision, but his vision didn't exactly provide for an efficient, liveable city. His priorities seemed slanted to bread and circuses, in aid of reelection, instead of repair and support of an aging infrastructure.

Given the choice between a crumbling infrastructure and more personal money, or crumbling infrastructure and less money, the choice is obvious. Both are wrong, but one is less wrong. Torontonians deserve better than two wrong choices.

I'm curious where you get your information about neglect of infrastructure from the Miller era. On the contrary, it is easy to learn that the work on the Gardiner was halted weeks after Ford was elected, without council's approval. The process was then re-started at the end of 2012 after concrete started falling on people. This is perfectly symbolic of the damage Ford was wreaking on the city.

 

[fastar1]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I will be interested in Karen Stintz, we will see, at least she is not as much as a ****** bag politician as others it seems

Wrong. She voted against the Scarborough subway twice, and then launched an initiative to get it built after she decided to run for mayor. All within the span of less than a year.

 

[LiNK666]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Karen Stintz is the most fake amongst all the councillors. She is two faced and cares about only one person: Karen Stintz.

 

[fastar1]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Absolutely, the problem is when taxes are raised because our incompetent politicians miss manage the money.

They can always mismanage the money AND lower taxes, like Ford. Miller cost more and did more, no mismanagement.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Exactly. The only people against less harsh treatment of irrecoverable drug addicts are die-hard ideologues or people who have never seen the bill (I say 'seen' and not 'pay' because we're all paying already).

Even if it's not AIDS, there's any number of other conditions. Having some tuberculosis-infected homeless addict repeatedly crash the emergency rooms of local hospitals is a ridiculous expense or running up police calls. Some estimates have homeless folk costing society an average of $200,000 per person, per year, if you factor in all the real costs.

I'd be 100% in favour of a safe injection site (yes, even in my neighbourhood if it had to be - though there's probably a better place for one closer downtown), prescription dope, etc. etc. like they're trying to do in BC. That's not bleeding heart liberalism, that's the bottom line.


EDIT: Come to think of it, I bet you could find quite a few people who would defend Ford as "just human" or "nobody's perfect" while still being totally opposed to any government support for chronic drug or alcohol addicts.

I chose AIDS as the example because it's likely the most expensive possible outcome. The drugs for one infected person, alone, can run about $40K/yr. Now add in the cost of the facilities and health care professionals involved. How many prevented cases would it take to fund an injection site?

Add to that the fact that you then get an opportunity to try and help people break the addiction. If they're injecting under an overpass, you don't get that chance.

Well, she won't be alone in that case. Just about the only people who HAVEN'T turned on him are his family members and Ford nation. Hell, as the Star proved with the rage-video purchase, people who were once close to him will now sell him down the river for as little as five grand.

Well crack and Hennessy are expensive, donchaknow.

 

[Sunspark]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I don't have a problem with Stintz. She seems intelligent, this is a good thing for a policy maker.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

 

[Baggsy]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Exactly. The only people against less harsh treatment of irrecoverable drug addicts are die-hard ideologues or people who have never seen the bill (I say 'seen' and not 'pay' because we're all paying already).

Even if it's not AIDS, there's any number of other conditions. Having some tuberculosis-infected homeless addict repeatedly crash the emergency rooms of local hospitals is a ridiculous expense or running up police calls. Some estimates have homeless folk costing society an average of $200,000 per person, per year, if you factor in all the real costs.

I'd be 100% in favour of a safe injection site (yes, even in my neighbourhood if it had to be - though there's probably a better place for one closer downtown), prescription dope, etc. etc. like they're trying to do in BC. That's not bleeding heart liberalism, that's the bottom line.


EDIT: Come to think of it, I bet you could find quite a few people who would defend Ford as "just human" or "nobody's perfect" while still being totally opposed to any government support for chronic drug or alcohol addicts.

The thing about that is where do you draw the line, and what do you support?
Some of the chronics are so messed up that they'll never get straightened out no matter how much money you throw. So would you be better off, putting the cash into prevention, so that other people don't get that far? It's a tough call, and you might never know if it worked.

 

[Mongrel]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Many people become homeless due to addictions and/or mental illness, not exactly the employable types. In a perfect world, yes we would all pitch in to help them live a basic level of comfort. But it just doesn't work that way in reality.

That's the thing. When you get down to it, some people are fighters and ask for the help they want and need. Others don't have that fight in them and just withdraw into their own little world over time.

Sometimes people only fight after a very long period of withdrawal. Sometimes they never do. With people like that, all you can do is make them sort of comfortable. There's places that do hospice work for severe alcoholics and they will actually supply their charges with booze, a safe place to sleep, and meals. These are for folks whose health has already been ruined and usually they only last six months to a year there. If they do decide to fight in the end there are people there they can ask for help from. With guys so far gone, there's no real point in preaching to them or thrashing them - they'll just retreat somewhere and wind up in the emerg before long.

Even when you don't have terminal cases, you can at least reduce the costs to society of severe addicts by treating them medically. This is the idea behind stuff like heroin prescriptions. The addicts get steady doses, medical monitoring, and don't have to steal anymore, so most of them calm down and sort of level off. They can hold themselves together enough to get a room and get on welfare (putting people on welfare is lots cheaper than putting peojail).

It's not perfect. There's a few violent or stubborn ones, where jail may still be the outcome, but they're actually a pretty small minority. Treating severe addiction as an illness is still the cheapest option for society overall.

@ Baggsy: No reason not to have both prevention and treatment where prevention fails. That doesn't really change the cost equation because that's what we have now. I'm mostly talking about making the really expensive part of addiction - those people who are really far gone - cheaper to society.

Wrong. She voted against the Scarborough subway twice, and then launched an initiative to get it built after she decided to run for mayor. All within the span of less than a year.

To me it just looked like she knew she was losing that vote and just decided to go with council.

If you're extra cynical, you might think she did it so that later she could say she voted for whatever the best option was, no matter what the result is in the end (if the subway's bad, she can say she voted against it, if good she can say she voted for it). But I don't even think that's such a bad move if she knew her vote wouldn't actually affect the outcome.