Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!! | Page 85 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Anybody else go to the pre-vote meeting of the councillors at "The Office"?

She was there, along with the guy from Etobicoke South that got in on a recount, I think.
Part of the discussion was on whether, and how much they could work with Ford.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I'm curious where you get your information about neglect of infrastructure from the Miller era. On the contrary, it is easy to learn that the work on the Gardiner was halted weeks after Ford was elected, without council's approval. The process was then re-started at the end of 2012 after concrete started falling on people. This is perfectly symbolic of the damage Ford was wreaking on the city.

And I don't really know where you get your impression that The Gardiner is the only infrastructure in the city but OK, I can play that game too. I get my information from the audits of the city budget that stated a goodly chunk of the 'budgetary surpluses', that Miller crowed about for years, was unspent budget toward repairs on The Gardiner. This was rather widely reported, too, so I'm surprised that you either didn't know about that, or chose to ignore it. The concrete didn't suddenly start falling under Ford, nor did the neglect of a year suddenly result in it. It was from many years of neglect.

Now try extending your view to some other reasonable areas on infrastructure. The water mains are blowing rather regularly, and were also under Miller. The roads didn't magically crumble after the last election. Miller had the budget for arts, parades, festivals, and for buying buildings that were left fallow, but not for infrastructure? Creation of bicycle lanes when the very roads on which you're making them are falling apart? Hint: If you've got money for discretionary spending, but not infrastructure, you're not doing the primary job of civic government. Discretion means "the ability to make responsible decisions." Is it 'responsible' to spend money on what is essential self aggrandizement, while your city's bones suffer? My answer is no.
 
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Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

And I don't really know where you get your impression that The Gardiner is the only infrastructure in the city but OK, I can play that game too. I get my information from the audits of the city budget that stated a goodly chunk of the 'budgetary surpluses', that Miller crowed about for years, was unspent budget toward repairs on The Gardiner. This was rather widely reported, too, so I'm surprised that you either didn't know about that, or chose to ignore it. The concrete didn't suddenly start falling under Ford, nor did the neglect of a year suddenly result in it. It was from many years of neglect.

Now try extending your view to some other reasonable areas on infrastructure. The water mains are blowing rather regularly, and were also under Miller. The roads didn't magically crumble after the last election. Miller had the budget for arts, parades, festivals, and for buying buildings that were left fallow, but not for infrastructure? Creation of bicycle lanes when the very roads on which you're making them are falling apart? Hint: If you've got money for discretionary spending, but not infrastructure, you're not doing the primary job of civic government. Discretion means "the ability to make responsible decisions." Is it 'responsible' to spend money on what is essential self aggrandizement, while your city's bones suffer? My answer is no.
I never pretended it was only about the Gardiner. I used it as an example because it's very clear and straightforward what happened and why. Progress on replacing/renewing the Gardiner was under way. As soon as Ford got elected that work was halted without council's approval. Two years later, after chunks of concrete fell on people, the work was quickly restarted.
Is Ford to blame for the falling concrete? No. Neither is Miller. There's no way either one told anyone to stop doing any maintenance on the structure. But the point here is to illustrate who is responsible for delayed infrastructure, and this example undeniably points the finger at Ford.

Water mains were being replaced under Miller and under Ford. So much neglect takes time to recover from. I'm not blaming Ford for the state of the roads, nor are you blaming Miller. Why mention it? How do you conclude Miller had no budget for infrastructure simply because he funded arts and culture? That's like me saying Ford isn't maintaining infrastructure because he cut taxes. It's a non-sequitur.

And dude, bicycle lanes ARE infrastructure! In fact they are very cost-efficient infrastructure, since making room for one more bike on the road is just as good for congestion as making room for one more car. Just like LRTs are very cost-efficient infrastructure for low density areas. Yet somehow Ford is the sensible spender?!?!?

And what self-aggrandizement? Simply stating it doesn't make it so FFS.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I never pretended it was only about the Gardiner. I used it as an example because it's very clear and straightforward what happened and why. Progress on replacing/renewing the Gardiner was under way. As soon as Ford got elected that work was halted without council's approval. Two years later, after chunks of concrete fell on people, the work was quickly restarted.
Is Ford to blame for the falling concrete? No. Neither is Miller. There's no way either one told anyone to stop doing any maintenance on the structure. But the point here is to illustrate who is responsible for delayed infrastructure, and this example undeniably points the finger at Ford.

Water mains were being replaced under Miller and under Ford. So much neglect takes time to recover from. I'm not blaming Ford for the state of the roads, nor are you blaming Miller. Why mention it? How do you conclude Miller had no budget for infrastructure simply because he funded arts and culture? That's like me saying Ford isn't maintaining infrastructure because he cut taxes. It's a non-sequitur.

And dude, bicycle lanes ARE infrastructure! In fact they are very cost-efficient infrastructure, since making room for one more bike on the road is just as good for congestion as making room for one more car. Just like LRTs are very cost-efficient infrastructure for low density areas. Yet somehow Ford is the sensible spender?!?!?

And what self-aggrandizement? Simply stating it doesn't make it so FFS.

I disagree.

Miller didn't spend the money that was allocated to repairs of The Gardiner, so I would point my finger at him before Ford. Would I point fingers at others before him? Certainly, but that doesn't make his actions right.

No budget for infrastructure? I didn't say that. Not by a long shot, however, if he was spending money on arts, parades, and useless/unused buildings that were left to crumble, while not spending that money on the actual primary business of civic government, then he was misspending that money.

Water mains are largely only being replaced when they fail, rather than being updated from turn of last century lines. I don't specifically blame either for that. It's decades worth of neglect. That doesn't absolve either of them though.

Bicycle lanes aren't infrastructure, they USE infrastructure. If the road is gone, then the bicycle lanes are running in potholes.

And when I say 'self aggrandizement' I mean pandering to his base, when there are better ways and NECESSARY ways that money should be spent. As I said if you let the roads crumble into sinkholes, you then have nowhere for those vaunted bicycle lanes.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I disagree.

Miller didn't spend the money that was allocated to repairs of The Gardiner, so I would point my finger at him before Ford. Would I point fingers at others before him? Certainly, but that doesn't make his actions right.

No budget for infrastructure? I didn't say that. Not by a long shot, however, if he was spending money on arts, parades, and useless/unused buildings that were left to crumble, while not spending that money on the actual primary business of civic government, then he was misspending that money.

Water mains are largely only being replaced when they fail, rather than being updated from turn of last century lines. I don't specifically blame either for that. It's decades worth of neglect. That doesn't absolve either of them though.

Bicycle lanes aren't infrastructure, they USE infrastructure. If the road is gone, then the bicycle lanes are running in potholes.

Allocating money doesn't mean it has to be spent on the spot. Saving money for future large expenditures is actually sound fiscal management! You keep suggesting that Miller didn't spend enough money on infrastructure based on the fact that infrastructure has been in disrepair for decades. As I said, it's a non-sequitur. Show us where the money was ready to be spent and he didn't do it. Nor have you shown that he caused any delays, as I have done for Ford. BTW the worst parts of the Gardiner can be patched over for another 6 years before it's deemed unserviceable. Those 2 wasted years would have gone a long way to relieve the pressure (pressure which will probably be alleviated by accelerating the redevelopment at extra cost).

Also, bicycles "use" infrastructure at a rate 1/9600th of a car; https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY9PNWbCAAIfXvs.png
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Allocating money doesn't mean it has to be spent on the spot. Saving money for future large expenditures is actually sound fiscal management! You keep suggesting that Miller didn't spend enough money on infrastructure based on the fact that infrastructure has been in disrepair for decades. As I said, it's a non-sequitur. Show us where the money was ready to be spent and he didn't do it. Nor have you shown that he caused any delays, as I have done for Ford. BTW the worst parts of the Gardiner can be patched over for another 6 years before it's deemed unserviceable. Those 2 wasted years would have gone a long way to relieve the pressure (pressure which will probably be alleviated by accelerating the redevelopment at extra cost).

Also, bicycles "use" infrastructure at a rate 1/9600th of a car; https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY9PNWbCAAIfXvs.png

Saving money for huge future expenditures only makes sense if the current spending isn't needed. That The Gardiner was dropping big chunks of concrete on cars, before Ford ever took the mayoral seat, shows that money needed to be spent.

I can easily demonstrate that Miller didn't spend enough on infrastructure with a simple statement; he was spending money on non core projects, like the ones that I've previously stated, while things like the roads were in obvious disrepair. If my house is burning down I don't sit and figure out how much money I should spend on appliances, let alone Netflix downloads.

The amount that bicycles use infrastructure is immaterial, if that infrastructure doesn't exist. 1/9600th of nothing is what?
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Way back when Miller was our Councillor, I believe we had our street fully paved, dug up, patched, paved, and then dug up, and patched again. He seemed entirely oblivious to half of his new district when they changed the boundaries. The Councillor from our side, was hampered by some kind of flyers circulated that implied that he was on the take. He's now a Justice, or something like that.

We also had speed bumps put in on a steep hill, that consequently ripped the cowling under the front off of several vehicles. I see now that the speed bumps have finally been removed.

What also irks me is that we seem to have unlimited funds for speed bumps, stop signs, no turn signs, and lower speed limit signs, but not on other things that matter.

My parents asked for a stop sign at one point of a T intersection, because there was a sports car repair place at the end of the street, and a playground next door. Instead, an engineer was sent out, and the stop sign ended up being placed at the bottom of the T, where cars were parked on both sides of the street, and speed bumps along that dead end street. A month later, the speed bumps were scrapped off, and then replaced. Apparently, they were put in too high the first time. So now, the intersection is a total mess, since the car with the right of way, can't get past the one that is required to stop.

In other words, the city has had a tendency to make the same mistakes over and over again, and we need it to stop.
 
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Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Miller made no secret that he had a hate on for cars since they contradict his environmental initiatives. St. Clair streetcar line was his great debacle. Another mess was the Roncessvalles construction that lasted nearly 3 years which resulted in broken gas mains, basement floods, disrupted transit and many bankrupt businesses. Shop owners were pleading for tax breaks but no dice, tough luck. So much for the regular working people, they just weren't artsy enough for any funding.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I tried taking St. Clair after that line went in, once.

I can't see businesses thriving there even after the construction finished.

The thing about Miller was that they put in bike lanes under him, but in really weird places, while things like the Martin Goodman trail or whatever the name was changed to, was completely ignored.

I stopped riding after almost being killed by a bus, it got really messed up with the change to the Spadina streetcar right of way and Bay Street. Before that I was trailering my kids to nursery school on a daily basis.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Miller made no secret that he had a hate on for cars since they contradict his environmental initiatives. St. Clair streetcar line was his great debacle. Another mess was the Roncessvalles construction that lasted nearly 3 years which resulted in broken gas mains, basement floods, disrupted transit and many bankrupt businesses. Shop owners were pleading for tax breaks but no dice, tough luck. So much for the regular working people, they just weren't artsy enough for any funding.

Getting speed bumps or stop signs, in residential neighbourhoods, buys you votes and so it's easy to get that done, whether smart or not. Getting something like Gerrard street repaved, in a commercial area, doesn't really get you any votes.

New right-of-way. New streetcars. New streetcar platforms don't line up with the streetcar entrances. You couldn't make this stuff up.

This city is fixated on streetcars. They cause extensive surface traffic disruption when in operation. They cause extensive traffic disruption when the rails need to be replaced. They are inflexible; ie. can't easily change routes to reroute around problems (like other stuck streetcars). Toronto; you don't want light rail, but you do want streetcars? Wha?!
 
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Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Man, that reminds me of the stretch of Bloor east of Sherbourne. I take that every day for my commute and the state of that road is getting godawful.

They recently completely repaved the bit that's in front of the firehouse, but ONLY that bit. Then they repainted the bike lanes all the way to the viaduct. I mean I appreciate wider bike lanes, but that just lets me know the rest of that disaster isn't getting repaved anytime soon.

Or the number of times they patched the giant sinkhole on the viaduct without really fixing it properly, so they've been out there fixing it three times in four months. What a waste. Classic city of Toronto.

Then elsewhere I see roads in pretty good condition (a long stretch of Danforth, most recently) being repaved when that road would have been fine for at least another 2-3 years.

I honestly have no idea as to what criteria the works dept uses to repave roads, because it all seems crazy to me. Maybe they just go out and repave anything anytime a councillor ******* loudly.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I honestly have no idea as to what criteria the works dept uses to repave roads, because it all seems crazy to me. Maybe they just go out and repave anything anytime a councillor ******* loudly.

Likely what councillor most needs a boost before the next election and who has the biggest number of friends in council.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Also, streetcars aren't too bad in that if you take one streetcar and put it up against the number of buses required to carry the same number of people, the streetcar is a vast improvement.
But once traffic density gets high enough, they really ought to be converted to subways or some other high density alternative (which was actually what happened to Yonge). St Clair might not have been so bad if it was 6-lane to begin with (like the Queensway).

For example, we should have build a subway running under King St, or maybe Queen St aeons ago. But we cheaped out and now we're stuck with streetcars in places where they don't work and don't have the lines in places where they would work.

Too little money for far far far too long.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

For example, we should have build a subway running under King St, or maybe Queen St aeons ago. But we cheaped out and now we're stuck with streetcars in places where they don't work and don't have the lines in places where they would work.

Queen subway line lost out to BD line. IMHO, Toronto's transit expansion should focus on the downtown relief line. All this nonsense about extending already overloaded subway lines is amazing. But DRL = higher taxes, more traffic disruptions in downtown, building subway under downtown infrastructure, etc etc.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Is it a milk moustache?
Or just some coke residue?

Don't say it is photoshop. It was published at National Post website

ford_video_20131114_topix2.jpg
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Also, streetcars aren't too bad in that if you take one streetcar and put it up against the number of buses required to carry the same number of people, the streetcar is a vast improvement.
But once traffic density gets high enough, they really ought to be converted to subways or some other high density alternative (which was actually what happened to Yonge). St Clair might not have been so bad if it was 6-lane to begin with (like the Queensway).

For example, we should have build a subway running under King St, or maybe Queen St aeons ago. But we cheaped out and now we're stuck with streetcars in places where they don't work and don't have the lines in places where they would work.

Too little money for far far far too long.

Sure, a streetcar carries more people than a bus, but it would take a detailed study to find out if they actually move more people, in a given time frame, than a faster moving bus. They also contribute to that high traffic density that you commented on, by slowing other traffic.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Sure, a streetcar carries more people than a bus, but it would take a detailed study to find out if they actually move more people, in a given time frame, than a faster moving bus. They also contribute to that high traffic density that you commented on, by slowing other traffic.

There was a proper study done on it, in a couple west coast US cities but I read it years ago. Can't find the link now. The gist of it was that buses also slow traffic in a similar manner. They're clearly not as great of an obstruction, but they often have more stops and when you have 3-4 buses in place of a streetcar, the aggregate effect is greater.

HOWEVER, the biggest issue is actually infrastructure, more so than the vehicle. Dedicated right-of-ways, special turn signals, other intersection controls and the like make a way bigger difference than choice of surface vehicle. Those of course have impacts on car traffic, but at least SOMETHING'S moving (right now both car traffic AND streetcars/buses are slow in problem areas).

The problem is that in Toronto, the only room for those in many places is underground. Since we're trying to do all of this on the cheap, we cannibalized surface lanes instead. Whether we use streetcars/light rail or subways, the only real noticeable improvement in traffic will come with significantly more tunnelling. Interestingly, bus tunnels are usually more expensive than streetcar tunnels because they need more access exits, better venting, etc.

We flat-out cannot afford that without federal (and provincial) funding or crippling tax increases.
 
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