Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!! | Page 73 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I think you may have been the only one to comment on the actual numbers! The rest seem to just care about the shenanigans. Post 1339 has the numbers for budget, tax, etc if anyone is actually interested, I guess most are not...

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...kicked-out!!&p=2104136&viewfull=1#post2104136

The reason why his support was and to a certain extent still is strong in the burbs is working families just do not have much more to give. Under Miller residential property tax increased over 29% while CPI only increased a little more than 16% over the same time. In addition he added the vehicle registration tax and the land transfer tax (plus a bunch of other user fees), in short he more than doubled inflation in costs to working families (they are the ones with cars, they are the ones buying homes...). While it is great to spend 2X to get 2X in services, that only works if you have a bunch of free money to pay the 2X in the first place, otherwise you stick to the used Chevy. Even worse, much (some would argue most) of the spending increases under Miller were not for what was needed (more services, better infrastructure) instead it was for pay increases for city employees, that also far outstretched inflation or what most of the working families see every year in pay increases. City employee pay is a fat chunk of the operating budget.

There is also a reason the Gardiner and infrastructure is failing, under spending on the things that really need it.

Personally, unless another candidate gets this I would vote for Ford again--because of this, shenanigans be damned.
Absolutely agree, we should never consider options we can't afford. However I don't believe people are one tax increase away from destitution.

But let's say you're right, and many people are at the limit of their ability to keep up with the cost of living. It's possible. Then the city has to make do with the income level is has now (or less?) Seen as how it already can't keep up with expenses as I mentioned (social housing, infrastructure, transit are all crippled) then what does that lead to down the road, 10 or 20 years from now?

Myself, I can only see two possible outcomes to the scenario where the city can't raise any more funds. But I'd like you to give us your vision of how the city turns out in the longer run, if it genuinely can't afford to increase revenues now?
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Absolutely agree, we should never consider options we can't afford. However I don't believe people are one tax increase away from destitution.

But let's say you're right, and many people are at the limit of their ability to keep up with the cost of living. It's possible. Then the city has to make do with the income level is has now (or less?) Seen as how it already can't keep up with expenses as I mentioned (social housing, infrastructure, transit are all crippled) then what does that lead to down the road, 10 or 20 years from now?

Myself, I can only see two possible outcomes to the scenario where the city can't raise any more funds. But I'd like you to give us your vision of how the city turns out in the longer run, if it genuinely can't afford to increase revenues now?

Not every family is at the end of their rope, just some, once they are done, it will be the next group, then the next... Just like people have to make hard choices where to spend their money so do governments in the modern world. They need to decide what is important and what is not. What is good for the future and what is just some money spent today that does nothing to support the future.

The tax increases out strip inflation. As I noted in another posting they are also targeting working families (at all levels of gov, left AND right). Many of them are also "flat" (fee based) which makes them regressive in nature, the less the family makes the higher the percentage of income goes to the tax.

City pay increases outstrip inflation and are triple the median household income increase for the city. Is that improving services? Is it right or even moral to ask the people with no increase to pay for another's fat increase? City staff pay is a huge portion of the operating budget. Not saying union breaking, pay cuts or even pay freeze, but maybe it is time to be tough and say pay increase is locked to inflation or better yet the median income increase for the city.

For services we need to decide are they more important than another service or more important than crumbling infrastructure. Yes we may need to cut some, it is called a hard choice. Everyone has to make them, why not the government?

Sure most people can come up with a little more for taxes, but why should anyone pay more and not get anything for it? Why should anyone have to pay an extra fee for something they have already paid for in other taxes? I have no issues paying to fix the Gardiner (as an example), but to be fair I already paid for it, the last guy chose to use that money for something else, so now I have to pay again, and again.

There are about 700,000 households in the city of Toronto. If we leave all other revenue sources constant every 700K we spend extra is an extra $1 per household, every 700K we save is $1 less per household. Every $1B is ~1400 per household or over 2K before tax. For some here that is joke money, maybe one good dinner, for a good portion of the city that is big money. How many times should we pay for the same thing? Take a look at the Miller budgets, infrastructure became the "surplus" to be spent the next year on what?

In short it is about tough choices. It is not a infinite pool of money. There is no revenue problem. The poorer you are the harder they are hitting you...
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

The city will go the way of some major US cities in the future. If they continue to increase taxes / fees / levies / tolls the people will flee out of the city into the suburbs.

Mississauga / Oakville / Burlington / Barrie / King / Milton / Georgetown....all of these areas had very affordable housing only a few years ago. Now however, people are realizing they can't afford to buy in Toronto so they're moving to the outlying regions. Even those outer regions are seeing huge price increases because of the demand now there...however still not on par with Toronto housing.

Even GO has opened up the direct line to Barrie back up again because there's demand. And there will be more demand with increasing population in the outer reaches of the GTA.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

^^Been to places like Georgetown lately? Affordable? Not anymore. The city has already taken over there too.

This is what they're building/built in Georgetown south. My dad just sold his. Nice houses and all but they cater to a select market. It used to be cheap up here but everywhere is the same now. You have to go even further north to find deals anymore.

http://www.remax.ca/on/halton-hills-real-estate/na-15135-danby-rd-treb_w2755134-lst
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

^^Been to places like Georgetown lately? Affordable? Not anymore. The city has already taken over there too.

This is what they're building/built in Georgetown south. My dad just sold his. Nice houses and all but they cater to a select market. It used to be cheap up here but everywhere is the same now. You have to go even further north to find deals anymore.

http://www.remax.ca/on/halton-hills-real-estate/na-15135-danby-rd-treb_w2755134-lst

Life plan... go way waaaaay west and a bit north.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I hear that. I'm still wondering why I came back here. Ten years in Calgary. Anything beats this toilet bowl and it's crackhead politicians :D

I keep hearing that the jobs are no longer in the GTA....so to make good money one must go either EAST....or WEST....just not here. I think I'll have to expand my geographical job search limit.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I keep hearing that the jobs are no longer in the GTA....so to make good money one must go either EAST....or WEST....just not here. I think I'll have to expand my geographical job search limit.

I hear that they'll be building a gas electrical plant in Napanee.....
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I keep hearing that the jobs are no longer in the GTA....so to make good money one must go either EAST....or WEST....just not here. I think I'll have to expand my geographical job search limit.

I hear tat there are no jobs anywhere except Toronto... and that I ill starve if I move to Kelowna.

I hear that they'll be building a gas electrical plant in Napanee.....

OOooo wonder if the need sparky apprentices. Nice and close to Vermont, and it gets me out of the city but still reasonably close to my Gf
 
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Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I had a good offer out in Quebec...but wife didn't really want to move so we refused it. There's a lot of work out in NFLD with the new building of the oil fields, and some hydro work out in Goose Bay.

Ideally....I'd find something that's a 2 weeks on and 1 or 2 weeks off site....that I'd jump on tomorrow if I could.
 
BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Not every family is at the end of their rope, just some, once they are done, it will be the next group, then the next... Just like people have to make hard choices where to spend their money so do governments in the modern world. They need to decide what is important and what is not. What is good for the future and what is just some money spent today that does nothing to support the future.

The tax increases out strip inflation. As I noted in another posting they are also targeting working families (at all levels of gov, left AND right). Many of them are also "flat" (fee based) which makes them regressive in nature, the less the family makes the higher the percentage of income goes to the tax.

City pay increases outstrip inflation and are triple the median household income increase for the city. Is that improving services? Is it right or even moral to ask the people with no increase to pay for another's fat increase? City staff pay is a huge portion of the operating budget. Not saying union breaking, pay cuts or even pay freeze, but maybe it is time to be tough and say pay increase is locked to inflation or better yet the median income increase for the city.

For services we need to decide are they more important than another service or more important than crumbling infrastructure. Yes we may need to cut some, it is called a hard choice. Everyone has to make them, why not the government?

Sure most people can come up with a little more for taxes, but why should anyone pay more and not get anything for it? Why should anyone have to pay an extra fee for something they have already paid for in other taxes? I have no issues paying to fix the Gardiner (as an example), but to be fair I already paid for it, the last guy chose to use that money for something else, so now I have to pay again, and again.

There are about 700,000 households in the city of Toronto. If we leave all other revenue sources constant every 700K we spend extra is an extra $1 per household, every 700K we save is $1 less per household. Every $1B is ~1400 per household or over 2K before tax. For some here that is joke money, maybe one good dinner, for a good portion of the city that is big money. How many times should we pay for the same thing? Take a look at the Miller budgets, infrastructure became the "surplus" to be spent the next year on what?

In short it is about tough choices. It is not a infinite pool of money. There is no revenue problem. The poorer you are the harder they are hitting you...
I'm sorry, you seem to be defending your position that people are overburdened by taxes. I agreed to accept that position for the sake of argument, so you don't need to convince me.

My question was, how do you think the city will turn out in 10-20 years without increasing revenue (or only in proportion to inflation)? Give us your vision of Toronto of the future on existing levels of revenue.
 
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Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I'm sorry, you seem to be defending your position that people are overburdened by taxes. I agreed to accept that position for the sake of argument, so you don't need to convince me.

My question was, how do you think the city will turn out in 10-20 years without increasing revenue (or only in proportion to inflation)? Give us your vision of Toronto of the future on existing levels of revenue.

The existing course of actions cannot continue and something borderline drastic has to happen before we're all forced into something we don't want.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

The existing course of actions cannot continue and something borderline drastic has to happen before we're all forced into something we don't want.

After 30 years worth of inattention, I think that you can drop the word "borderline."
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

After 30 years worth of inattention, I think that you can drop the word "borderline."

Guess I'm an optimist haha.

Funny for the day: [video=youtube_share;BtAosEp5R04]http://youtu.be/BtAosEp5R04?t=2m52s[/video]
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I'm sorry, you seem to be defending your position that people are overburdened by taxes. I agreed to accept that position for the sake of argument, so you don't need to convince me.

My question was, how do you think the city will turn out in 10-20 years without increasing revenue (or only in proportion to inflation)? Give us your vision of Toronto of the future on existing levels of revenue.

Admittedly it is a hard problem to solve, thanks to decades of incompetence and waste there is a big wrong to right. I cannot cover all the issues here as well but here is a "taste." Toronto I think is still saveable, provincially I think we are screwed.

It is not about stopping revenue growth or never raising taxes it is about keeping it in line with inflation and/or median income growth, the catch is the first couple years this may not be possible (see wages). We also have to consider not just the percentage tax increase, with the density increase that has taken place in the last 10 years the PT base has ballooned (it also comes with more costs BUT where are the economies of scale?). The density continues to increase and will for a while, so revenue will also increase here. One area that may not be popular but we need to be very careful with commercial property tax to avoid becoming Hamilton, we need more businesses here not less. At the same time I would not reduce ANY current tax, people have already adjusted--the only exception being the residential land transfer, it needs to go.

City employee wages (and benefits) need to follow reasonable increases that are also inline with not double or triple inflation (this is the big one in so many ways). The catch is we may have to keep raising taxes until the current contracts are up (couple of percent), because we are stuck with increases over the next couple years from the previous guys (we have to pay for this somehow). If the unions do not want to participate this may mean contracting out. Really there should be deep pay cuts (>10%) to undue Miller's damage but that is not going to happen realistically. May also have to be layoffs or hiring freezes in some of the areas where we are overstaffed (Police come to mind due to the number we have per person compared to other well run cities, but there are others).

The city needs to take a good hard look at every service and decide what should and should not be funded, this will mean some service reductions. There are many services and facilities that are underused today, identify, combine, save. Toronto public housing (or whatever it is called), sell off the damn houses and put the money into the building repairs! We will have to reduce and actually eliminate some services. The idea of "no service cuts" is ridiculous. We also need to stop offering services that other levels of government already offer (i know it just transfers the tax burden by why do it twice, let them make the hard choice). We should also look at the 905 and ask ourselves, why are we offering this or that service (or a better service) when they are not--what makes us so special.

Parades and festivals need to submit a cost benefit analysis if they want city funding. I have no problem giving them money IF the city makes more money back. Some that no longer need the funding will be cut-off. Some my end up going away, are they more important than infrastructure? They may need to seek out more corporate funding.

The city needs to move faster, things like synchronizing the traffic lights should take $$ priority over more bike lanes. I was shocked in my travels to see how many cars (compared to here) can be moved simply by syncing the lights, the system is not that expensive these days and we need the upgrades anyway. Downtown is a grid which suits this well. I would do this one first just due to the bang for the buck. Then we can address bike lanes (ON SIDE STREETS) once the cars move faster and safer. Transit improvements are next. Moving people faster reduces the cost to businesses and will help encourage our commercial tax base to stick around or even increase.

Transit spending needs to be smarter, putting transit ROWs down hydro fields is way cheaper than digging up main streets. A subway under (or above) a hydro field will be cheaper and less disruptive per km to build than a new LRT down the middle of an existing road. The hydro fields cross the main roads, that is where the stations go, bus routes can be re-routed to work with the new system. I have been looking at this for a long time and what can be done is pretty impressive. Some of the routes could also be surface bus ROWs. The hard one that must be done is the downtown relief line, no hydro fields downtown, no way to do it but suck it up. I would make sure TTC fares increase every couple of years with inflation. May also do a model like the tube where one time cash fares (casual user) are much higher than passes, just has to be well thought out.

Gardiner needs to be addressed. Regrettably 10 years ago it could have been level all the way to Spadina and then level again past Jarvis, only Spadina to Jarvis would have required the expensive replacement. But some previous geniuses let condos be built beside it compounding the problem. One idea I have here is build it in a modular fashion above the CN ROW through the city. It will be put up in sections (which will be shipped in by rail!) during off peak time, this can be done to have almost no rail interruption. It is less disruptive than a big dig. It is less disruptive than tearing it down and putting it back in the same place. Everyone has a fear of elevated highways in the long term but the material technology has improved and things like smog that damaged the Gardiner have decreased.

The key here, reduce cost growth via wages, reduce some services. Take a look at the major projects and go beyond the idea of immediate gratification. Transit growth may just be a couple of kms a year as part of a long term plan (it may be small improvements every year instead of some grandiose big dig like we do today).

I would not rule out alternate funding streams. Casino I actually think is a good idea if done right, many of the so called "world class" cities have one, it is easy to see what does and does not work (instead of all the drama). I also have no issue selling out to corporate sponsorship, Pepsi Expressway...

Finally as I noted before. I am also not entirely against an increase IF it goes to what they say it will. If we get a 3% increase to replace the Gardiner, it damn well better go to replacing the Gardiner, not to giving CUPE more money, only to ask for another increase for the Gardiner....
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Admittedly it is a hard problem to solve, thanks to decades of incompetence and waste there is a big wrong to right. I cannot cover all the issues here as well but here is a "taste." Toronto I think is still saveable, provincially I think we are screwed.

It is not about stopping revenue growth or never raising taxes it is about keeping it in line with inflation and/or median income growth, the catch is the first couple years this may not be possible (see wages). We also have to consider not just the percentage tax increase, with the density increase that has taken place in the last 10 years the PT base has ballooned (it also comes with more costs BUT where are the economies of scale?). The density continues to increase and will for a while, so revenue will also increase here. One area that may not be popular but we need to be very careful with commercial property tax to avoid becoming Hamilton, we need more businesses here not less. At the same time I would not reduce ANY current tax, people have already adjusted--the only exception being the residential land transfer, it needs to go.

City employee wages (and benefits) need to follow reasonable increases that are also inline with not double or triple inflation (this is the big one in so many ways). The catch is we may have to keep raising taxes until the current contracts are up (couple of percent), because we are stuck with increases over the next couple years from the previous guys (we have to pay for this somehow). If the unions do not want to participate this may mean contracting out. Really there should be deep pay cuts (>10%) to undue Miller's damage but that is not going to happen realistically. May also have to be layoffs or hiring freezes in some of the areas where we are overstaffed (Police come to mind due to the number we have per person compared to other well run cities, but there are others).

The city needs to take a good hard look at every service and decide what should and should not be funded, this will mean some service reductions. There are many services and facilities that are underused today, identify, combine, save. Toronto public housing (or whatever it is called), sell off the damn houses and put the money into the building repairs! We will have to reduce and actually eliminate some services. The idea of "no service cuts" is ridiculous. We also need to stop offering services that other levels of government already offer (i know it just transfers the tax burden by why do it twice, let them make the hard choice). We should also look at the 905 and ask ourselves, why are we offering this or that service (or a better service) when they are not--what makes us so special.

Parades and festivals need to submit a cost benefit analysis if they want city funding. I have no problem giving them money IF the city makes more money back. Some that no longer need the funding will be cut-off. Some my end up going away, are they more important than infrastructure? They may need to seek out more corporate funding.

The city needs to move faster, things like synchronizing the traffic lights should take $$ priority over more bike lanes. I was shocked in my travels to see how many cars (compared to here) can be moved simply by syncing the lights, the system is not that expensive these days and we need the upgrades anyway. Downtown is a grid which suits this well. I would do this one first just due to the bang for the buck. Then we can address bike lanes (ON SIDE STREETS) once the cars move faster and safer. Transit improvements are next. Moving people faster reduces the cost to businesses and will help encourage our commercial tax base to stick around or even increase.

Transit spending needs to be smarter, putting transit ROWs down hydro fields is way cheaper than digging up main streets. A subway under (or above) a hydro field will be cheaper and less disruptive per km to build than a new LRT down the middle of an existing road. The hydro fields cross the main roads, that is where the stations go, bus routes can be re-routed to work with the new system. I have been looking at this for a long time and what can be done is pretty impressive. Some of the routes could also be surface bus ROWs. The hard one that must be done is the downtown relief line, no hydro fields downtown, no way to do it but suck it up. I would make sure TTC fares increase every couple of years with inflation. May also do a model like the tube where one time cash fares (casual user) are much higher than passes, just has to be well thought out.

Gardiner needs to be addressed. Regrettably 10 years ago it could have been level all the way to Spadina and then level again past Jarvis, only Spadina to Jarvis would have required the expensive replacement. But some previous geniuses let condos be built beside it compounding the problem. One idea I have here is build it in a modular fashion above the CN ROW through the city. It will be put up in sections (which will be shipped in by rail!) during off peak time, this can be done to have almost no rail interruption. It is less disruptive than a big dig. It is less disruptive than tearing it down and putting it back in the same place. Everyone has a fear of elevated highways in the long term but the material technology has improved and things like smog that damaged the Gardiner have decreased.

The key here, reduce cost growth via wages, reduce some services. Take a look at the major projects and go beyond the idea of immediate gratification. Transit growth may just be a couple of kms a year as part of a long term plan (it may be small improvements every year instead of some grandiose big dig like we do today).

I would not rule out alternate funding streams. Casino I actually think is a good idea if done right, many of the so called "world class" cities have one, it is easy to see what does and does not work (instead of all the drama). I also have no issue selling out to corporate sponsorship, Pepsi Expressway...

Finally as I noted before. I am also not entirely against an increase IF it goes to what they say it will. If we get a 3% increase to replace the Gardiner, it damn well better go to replacing the Gardiner, not to giving CUPE more money, only to ask for another increase for the Gardiner....

Backmarker for Mayor!

What surprised me was that there was a recession, everyone was losing their job while the city was asking for more.
 
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Backmarker for Mayor!

What surprised me was that there was a recession, everyone was losing their job while the city was asking for more.

The garbage strike was icing on the cake.
 

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