Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

[backmarkerducati]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

And, on top of that, Toronto residents have been paying a disproportionately smaller amount in things like property tax, when compared to surrounding areas. Miller may have raised those taxes by a gazzilion percent, but it still didn't bring them up to that of the surrounding areas. This has gone on for far longer than Miller was in office and if any politician now stated that rates would go up to a reasonable level, when running for office, he'd be run out of town on a rail. The gap has simply become too large, for anyone to swallow all at once.

I guess you missed this, so here it is again:

Mississauga's Mil Rate is: 0.926648%
Toronto's Mil Rate is: 0.7457653%
Both include school taxes.

Now I could not find anything in MPAC that breaks down assessed value for like properties city to city but the real-estate boards do provide like to like comparisons for average sale prices. So the admitted leap of faith here is that ratio wise MPAC will be close to sales (not value but ratio). If anyone can like to like MPAC, it would improve the below...

For detached family homes:
Mississauga's current average price is: $603,149 times the Mil rate that is $5589
Toronto's current average price is: $840,396 times the Mil rate that is = $6267

The key here is to try and compare like homes to like homes not to compare a downtown condo to suburban track housing. If you look at the average values for all home types the Toronto numbers get pulled down more by small condos (basically mid 500s for Toronto vs low 500s for Mississauga) but is that a fair comparison, I guess it is if you want to propagate the myth.

Post numbers if you actually have better data and not just what you were told...

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

You dont need to raise taxes, we pay enough taxes as it is, eliminating waste is the key.

Here is a rough break down of trying to live in toronto:

Property tax $4,000 or $333 a month
Income tax $25% of 60K = $15,000
Car assuming its financed or leased $300 a month, of which $ 39 a month or $468 a year is tax
Fuel $3,900 a year of that $1,300 is tax
Sticker for plate $80 (100% silly tax)
Groceries $ 200 a week or $10,400 a year, of which another $1,352 is tax

Phone/cable/internet $200 a month or $2,400 a year of which another $312 is tax

Car insurance $150 a month or $1800 a year

Hydro/gas/insurance $300 a month, of which once again $ 39 a month or $468 a year is tax

So that leaves us with $22,980 a year in taxes just for regular everyday folks to pay up. Not factoring in land transfer tax or buying clothes, anything for entertainment, hey your bike parts, track days, etc... that would be another 13% assuming you have any money left.

So where do you want to get that increased tax rate from?

Eliminating waste is a free market capitalist’s idea which a socialist will never want to try.
Socialist idea to everything is to increase taxes.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Can we at least put the property tax misunderstanding to bed?
View attachment 33868
http://joedrew.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/torontos-average-property-tax-levied-vs-the-gtas/

http://joedrew.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/torontos-property-tax-rates-vs-the-gtas/

They can't, although it may have once been true today it is a urban legend that must be propagated, numbers be damned...

Yes the mil rate is less, but it is more than offset by the home values (like to like not DT 500 sq.ft condo to suburban McMansion). PT also does not include all the user fees that are extra...

 

[ZX600]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I can't see how this man can function anymore to fulfill his normal duties.

And saying you'll vote for him again, without knowing who the competition is, is silly. .

What I poorly tried to explain is that If I believe he is the best candidate, his "Mistakes" will not stop me from voting for him.

I am out of the city anyways, so this was more of an opinion than a something I will actually do.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

This one is for Rob on PT, since I notice you live in exotic Brampton...

Mil rate: 1.161747% (includes region, school and city)
Detached Home Ave Price: 482,679
Tax: $5607

Still less than Toronto at $6267

So, what again were you saying about property tax? Someone in a downtown condo pays less than a house in Brampton and that is not fair???

 

[nfq]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

What I poorly tried to explain is that If I believe he is the best candidate, his "Mistakes" will not stop me from voting for him.

I am out of the city anyways, so this was more of an opinion than a something I will actually do.

I get what you're saying.

Everyone has their own faults and vices, but Ford is just taking it completely to the next level. We're not talking about a guy that has a few drinks here or there, or smokes the odd joint. We're talking about a man that EVEN during office hours, was boozing and being belligerent. That would get you tossed on the street 100/100 times if it were a private company. How many chances does this man need? how many times can he say sorry?

A few drinks? ok
he smoked crack? Jebus. guy needs help.
Popping pain pills and linked to murder? yea. ok. now we're all nuts.

Question is, this didn't start yesterday. He was a Councillor for a long while to, where was this behaviour then? What is it about being mayor that makes him think he's playing GTA V on godmode?

 

[nfq]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

They can't, although it may have once been true today it is a urban legend that must be propagated, numbers be damned...

Yes the mil rate is less, but it is more than offset by the home values (like to like not DT 500 sq.ft condo to suburban McMansion). PT also does not include all the user fees that are extra...

For sure.

An increase in PT will be offset by a decline in housing cost. It will happen that way, so it's a matter of looking at the percentages or what $$ you get from them.

 

[klr_guy]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Question is, this didn't start yesterday. He was a Councillor for a long while to, where was this behaviour then? What is it about being mayor that makes him think he's playing GTA V on godmode?

I had a friend who used to work for one of the Toronto daily papers and then spent time on the staff of a prior mayor of Toronto - when he found out Rob had been voted in, his comment was "you wouldn't believe the skeletons in his closet".

 

[mimico_polak]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

You dont need to raise taxes, we pay enough taxes as it is, eliminating waste is the key.

Here is a rough break down of trying to live in toronto:

Property tax $4,000 or $333 a month
Income tax $25% of 60K = $15,000
Car assuming its financed or leased $300 a month, of which $ 39 a month or $468 a year is tax
Fuel $3,900 a year of that $1,300 is tax
Sticker for plate $80 (100% silly tax)
Groceries $ 200 a week or $10,400 a year, of which another $1,352 is tax

Phone/cable/internet $200 a month or $2,400 a year of which another $312 is tax

Car insurance $150 a month or $1800 a year

Hydro/gas/insurance $300 a month, of which once again $ 39 a month or $468 a year is tax

So that leaves us with $22,980 a year in taxes just for regular everyday folks to pay up. Not factoring in land transfer tax or buying clothes, anything for entertainment, hey your bike parts, track days, etc... that would be another 13% assuming you have any money left.

So where do you want to get that increased tax rate from?

If you eliminate waste, what will that save you in terms of the prices you provided? A few minor % on the property tax? Fine no tax increase at that stage. But infrastructure still gets old, parks still need to be mowed / cleaned / maintained. I'm sure that you would want a salary increase every year. Well the public sector is also entitled to it....20% jump is stupid and I wish I had it. But I don't. I lose my job in 39 days...so I guess my income tax goes down a bit until I find something new.

I see your point and agree that we get taxed / user feed through the ***. However, this is the price we pay for where we live. Healthcare, roads, schools, garbage, water...all these things cost money. This isn't Homer Simpson's world where garbage men work for free....well they do until they want to get paid!

We can move, which isn't always an option. I never said I WANT taxes to be raised. I just said that if I saw that the increase in tax went to infrastructure, or at least something VALID then I would support it.

Ideally cutting waste should be the goal, but with increases in quality of life / salaries / union agreements whatever it's just impossible to cut everywhere.

Hell if the system was perfect the GST would've been eliminated YEARS ago once the goal was achieved of paying off the war debt...but government got used to the extra $ and kept it. Were there major riots? Clashes with government? No! People just took it up the A S S like they do. And until they / we stand up properly this will not change.

 

[Paul1000RR]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

If you eliminate waste, what will that save you in terms of the prices you provided? A few minor % on the property tax? Fine no tax increase at that stage. But infrastructure still gets old, parks still need to be mowed / cleaned / maintained. I'm sure that you would want a salary increase every year. Well the public sector is also entitled to it....20% jump is stupid and I wish I had it. But I don't. I lose my job in 39 days...so I guess my income tax goes down a bit until I find something new.

I see your point and agree that we get taxed / user feed through the ***. However, this is the price we pay for where we live. Healthcare, roads, schools, garbage, water...all these things cost money. This isn't Homer Simpson's world where garbage men work for free....well they do until they want to get paid!

We can move, which isn't always an option. I never said I WANT taxes to be raised. I just said that if I saw that the increase in tax went to infrastructure, or at least something VALID then I would support it.

Ideally cutting waste should be the goal, but with increases in quality of life / salaries / union agreements whatever it's just impossible to cut everywhere.

Hell if the system was perfect the GST would've been eliminated YEARS ago once the goal was achieved of paying off the war debt...but government got used to the extra $ and kept it. Were there major riots? Clashes with government? No! People just took it up the A S S like they do. And until they / we stand up properly this will not change.

well lets start with that 1.1 billion dollars that went up in smoke...

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

well lets start with that 1.1 billion dollars that went up in smoke...

Add that to the recurring 1.1 billion spent on our beloved SeeBeeSee......

 

[Schneller]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I suppose there are those willing to support a corrupt, morally bankrupt, and world wide joke of a mayor, in return for a couple of hundred dollars less in taxes per year with reduced government services and neglect to city infrastructure.

Regarding world wide joke: just imagine tonight's late night talk show material.

If, as Doug Ford has said, that Rob Ford could commit murder on the steps of city hall and Ford Nation would still re-elect him, then there is something rotten/wrong with Ford Nation, IMO.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

This spending and taxing thing is not just about the City of course... Here is a quick breakdown of some (and no where near all) of the new taxes or tax increases that focus on working families (City/Prov/Fed) that have been implemented over the last 5 to 10 years:

Drive to work (double up if you dare to have two working parents):
Car registration fee increase(s) (the Toronto portion is now gone) but the provincial one just went up.
HST on fuel, adding the HST to gas dinged you for 8% more per litre.
Drive Clean fee
Increased speeding tax.
As it turns out in the GTA they collect way more for roads than spent on roads, yet they want more! Road tolls are next, you are screwed if you drive the target route.

Families need a place to live so they do this:
PT tax increases in the near 30% range over 10 years (doubling CPI) and this is not just Toronto.
Land transfer tax, it is families that are upgrading from small to larger homes that are targeted (prov and city). As prices go up so does the $$s
Extra Hydro user fees.
Increase in the hydro rates, specially off-peak.
HST on Hydro Bill
HST on Gas Bill
Added and increased garbage fees or garbage bag tags.
Increased water fees.
HST on water bill

Have a job:
College of trades is gouging trades people in fees (much more than they paid before), some are mandatory if you want to keep your license.
CPP and EI increases.
Increased transit fees.

And worth mentioning "again"…HST on pretty much all the above!!!!

I can go one for much more far exceeding most peoples ADD... Their one idea is to focus larger fees on one portion of the working population, like CoT, Land Transfer, and road tolls (when they come) so most do not notice (or care). They also like to call things a fee, which makes you feel like you got something for it. Or to just ding you $5, $10, $20 at a time. Regardless it all adds up to hundreds per month (take a look at the list above and put some dollars beside the items, all are small, it all adds up). Based on many comments here the strategies seem to work. But you get the idea--hopefully,,, now. Regardless most of the above are greater than the median wage increase and/or CPI.

Now I am not sure if the politicians are just evil in doing this, targeting working families in some sort of evil hidden agenda. Or do they just have a wonderful idea of how to spend with no idea WHO will pay?

Now some of this is due to service or infrastructure improvements, most of it is not—I for one do not see what I got for all this??? Most of it goes into the giant pool, that is then used to pay for whatever special program (or fiasco) they want as their legacy instead of the purpose it was collected for. Never mind paying the interest on the last guys special programs and new chairs…. Does not matter left or right, they are all doing it.

The sooner the masses come to grip with what is happening the sooner someone might run that will fix it.

 

[nfq]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

^^^ this.

Until the people get so fed up, there's an uproar, they will continue doing this.

I would GLADLY pay that $60/vehicle tax if it meant that THAT money goes DIRECTLY to ROAD improvements and NOT a general pool of funds. Why is the gas tax funding night school ESL and how does that benefit the people paying that tax?

 

[jc100]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I think this is brilliant for Canada..it makes the rest of the world forget we export asbestos, club baby seals and mine the most disgustingly filthy oil on the planet.

 

[mimico_polak]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I think this is brilliant for Canada..it makes the rest of the world forget we export asbestos, club baby seals and mine the most disgustingly filthy oil on the planet.

Finally a silver lining has been found! LoL

i wish I had the answer to what would fix all this. And I agree that we have been seeing more and more costs of living in this city. However, will we be able to get a better mayor? On a human level quite possibly....on an actual political level I have no clue who's better to lead this city. I think it'll b a long time coming before Toronto is even considered work class again.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I guess you missed this, so here it is again:

Not at all. I guess you missed my post after that.

 

[sonnythebull]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I think this is brilliant for Canada..it makes the rest of the world forget we export asbestos, club baby seals and mine the most disgustingly filthy oil on the planet.

And....say sorry for nothing ,hate success and think everything such as guns are " scary"

and P.S canadian people , please stop saying and typing yikes to everything

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

[h=5]Why would we want to fire Rob Ford? He has brought more publicity to the City of Toronto then what the Olympics did to Vancouver. Would I vote for him? HELL YEAH![/h]

 

[Mongrel]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Look, I think there's a lot of disagreement about the details of why we're all feeling poorer, but there isn't all that much disagreement about feeling poorer in and of itself.

Economic decline is a problem most of the western world (and arguably the whole world to some extent) is facing. In this mess, Canada is a barely-medium-sized nation, one that's duct-taped to a country that is not only the biggest economy in the world but which is also hell-bent on tearing apart its social fabric. These are big damn trends and bigger problems.

We're arguing about property tax rates, when the cost of the house itself has doubled in a decade, when food and gas and education and rent have all jumped. When even having a child costs a half a million bucks. We're sweating the margins while ignorning the front page. It's understandable; property tax rates are at least something you have a hope in hell of affecting. Things like global outsourcing? Not so much.

Nobody likes to admit they don't have any answers, that a problem is too big. Most peopel are happy with convenient pet theories or comforting lies! There's gravy! Money will just appear by magic and fly into everyone's pockets, if we only slay the mythical "waste" dragon!!

Whether or not I have any answers at all, let me tell you one thing I do know for sure: That in times like these, the last person I want in charge is a man who is not only dumber than I am (A low enough bar to begin with...), but dumber than the bits of concrete falling off the Gardiner.