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Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
- Thread starter Scuba Steve
- Start date
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
We just have to recognise that all reports are filtered through someone else's eyes, plus the old "telephone game" problem of losing fidelity with each stage of transmission. It means as an audience we need to be active participants in reading by evaluating for ourselves the reasonableness of the sources, their self-interest, and balancing the different perspectives with what we know, the context, and our own experience.
Whether the reports in the media are flawed or not, they still shape public opinion. In fact some of them make it a rule to distort reality (Sun, Star). That doesn't make them any less influential (unfortunately), it just changes what people think. It's been this way for centuries, and for the good. It was the invention of the printing press that lead to the Magna Carta, and the more information that is out there, the better off we all are.
We just have to recognise that all reports are filtered through someone else's eyes, plus the old "telephone game" problem of losing fidelity with each stage of transmission. It means as an audience we need to be active participants in reading by evaluating for ourselves the reasonableness of the sources, their self-interest, and balancing the different perspectives with what we know, the context, and our own experience.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
I read this three times and all I got was rope-a-dope.
It all sounds so reasonable at first blush but ultimately it's on par with "consult your physician".
I read this three times and all I got was rope-a-dope.
It all sounds so reasonable at first blush but ultimately it's on par with "consult your physician".MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
Yo are right, no question about that. Unfortunately for him, he's in a pretty bad situation. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
Option A: He supports the legal process against Ms. Shannon Everett, to the fullest extend of the law and to make an example out of the situation, so it doesn't happen again.
Option B: He lets it go. Publicly.
Option A is going to backfire on him. The media will have another feeding frenzy. All his opposition will come together behind the young lady, getting more organized every time - Crowdfunding to buy the best lawyers in town for the defense, PR campaign against him, commentary on why he hates women, and so on. And copycats, willing to get charged as well, throwing things at his face to show solidarity with Ms. Everett.
Option B means that now it is open season on him, for real. Cream pies on the face -- every time he leaves the office. Bodyguards to go with him, even to the washroom in City Hall.
As soon as I heard the news, I thought that the best way out is not to arrest or prosecute Ms. Everett. Not because it is a solution, but because the alternative is worse.
Yo are right, no question about that. Unfortunately for him, he's in a pretty bad situation. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
Option A: He supports the legal process against Ms. Shannon Everett, to the fullest extend of the law and to make an example out of the situation, so it doesn't happen again.
Option B: He lets it go. Publicly.
Option A is going to backfire on him. The media will have another feeding frenzy. All his opposition will come together behind the young lady, getting more organized every time - Crowdfunding to buy the best lawyers in town for the defense, PR campaign against him, commentary on why he hates women, and so on. And copycats, willing to get charged as well, throwing things at his face to show solidarity with Ms. Everett.
Option B means that now it is open season on him, for real. Cream pies on the face -- every time he leaves the office. Bodyguards to go with him, even to the washroom in City Hall.
As soon as I heard the news, I thought that the best way out is not to arrest or prosecute Ms. Everett. Not because it is a solution, but because the alternative is worse.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
Option C: He publicly declares that he's hands-off, on the situation, and will let play out as it would for any regular citizen.
The problem is that he's shown a reluctance to speak on virtually anything, so Option C is unlikely.
Option C: He publicly declares that he's hands-off, on the situation, and will let play out as it would for any regular citizen.
The problem is that he's shown a reluctance to speak on virtually anything, so Option C is unlikely.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
You don't know reality. Nobody does. Anything people say about anything is their own interpretation and is certain to contain at least some flaws. The whole challenge in understanding the world is to come up with an interpretation that is the least flawed. There is no right and wrong, even when something is written in the press. There is only wrong, and less wrong. It's up to us all as individuals to determine for ourselves which is which.
I read this three times and all I got was rope-a-dope.
You don't know reality. Nobody does. Anything people say about anything is their own interpretation and is certain to contain at least some flaws. The whole challenge in understanding the world is to come up with an interpretation that is the least flawed. There is no right and wrong, even when something is written in the press. There is only wrong, and less wrong. It's up to us all as individuals to determine for ourselves which is which.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
that he was reported chasing after her option c probably won't fly even if he does speak up. it will probably be played out that he threatened to crush her after the drink was thrown. big mayor vs little helpless woman... she was a dumb *** for throwing the drink, he was a dumb *** for chasing her. next i can see some woman provoking him into hitting her publicly by attacking him first. just a backhand in defence is all it's going to take. it's dirty pool but it will work.
that he was reported chasing after her option c probably won't fly even if he does speak up. it will probably be played out that he threatened to crush her after the drink was thrown. big mayor vs little helpless woman... she was a dumb *** for throwing the drink, he was a dumb *** for chasing her. next i can see some woman provoking him into hitting her publicly by attacking him first. just a backhand in defence is all it's going to take. it's dirty pool but it will work.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
Truth and reality can be known when intimate with an event. At an ever expanding circle and increasing complexity things are going to get muddled. At this point social media commentators start dealing in flavours and pulse. And then you have the wackos. I'm not sure a million voices half way around the world are going to add much of value. Just adds to the frenzy. That shouldn't diminish the truth. The truth is out there. Perception is not reality.
Personally, I don't believe anything I can't verify with my own eyes. That doesn't mean I think everything else is bull$#@%. It just means I don't have to have a locked in position. I don't think there's ever been a time, on this forum, that I've quoted anything from news media to support an arguement. How could I?
Truth and reality can be known when intimate with an event. At an ever expanding circle and increasing complexity things are going to get muddled. At this point social media commentators start dealing in flavours and pulse. And then you have the wackos. I'm not sure a million voices half way around the world are going to add much of value. Just adds to the frenzy. That shouldn't diminish the truth. The truth is out there. Perception is not reality.
Personally, I don't believe anything I can't verify with my own eyes. That doesn't mean I think everything else is bull$#@%. It just means I don't have to have a locked in position. I don't think there's ever been a time, on this forum, that I've quoted anything from news media to support an arguement. How could I?
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
If TPS has the video, then it's evidence. You don't reveal evidence to the media or the public, as doing so can prejudice the possible jury pool for a trial. You don't do it until disclosure for the trial. In this case there are two people, other than The Mayor, who are in that video (as shown in the published picture) and are charged with various crimes.
If TPS has the video, then it's evidence. You don't reveal evidence to the media or the public, as doing so can prejudice the possible jury pool for a trial. You don't do it until disclosure for the trial. In this case there are two people, other than The Mayor, who are in that video (as shown in the published picture) and are charged with various crimes.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
Funny note on that topic - Quebecor (parent company of the Sun) tried to get even that law repealed, so they'd be allowed to just make up stuff and present it as "news"
Funny note on that topic - Quebecor (parent company of the Sun) tried to get even that law repealed, so they'd be allowed to just make up stuff and present it as "news"
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
First of all, you're not giving yourself enough credit. You believed that walking in front of a moving vehicle was going to hurt well before you saw it happen. This is how people survived before video. We learn that impact with fast-moving objects hurts, and impact with heavy objects hurt, so we extrapolate that impacts with heavy, fast moving objects will hurt a lot. The same is true for the crack allegation. I don't have to see the video, I can extrapolate from what I learned about Rob Ford, the media, and other sources that it is likely to be true. Of course, my degree of certainty is far below my degree of certainty that walking in front of a moving vehicle will injure me, but I still believe it enough to be willing to state it openly and risk the embarrassment of being proven wrong later, as the story unfolds.
Secondly, while you are right that perception is not reality, the fact is that perception matters more than reality. The guy who believes that a fast moving bus can't hurt him is not going to have any problem stepping out into traffic, reality be damned. Of course, this person would be labelled insane but the same principles applies to everybody, sane or not. The guy who bets on red in roulette is not insane, but he's not motivated by reality either. He's motivated by his belief. Some of us believe that a mayor who shoots from the hip and who focusses solely on cutting down the budget is the best thing for the city. Others believe a mayor who is diplomatic and weighs the pros and cons of adding more services is best. Reality has nothing to do with either view. These preferences are built up on layer upon layer of personal beliefs, that force us to conclude one way or another on what a good mayor would look like, in order to avoid collapsing our whole belief structure into a pile of cognitive dissonance.
In this story, people who believe the mayor is a good guy, but who also believe that smoking crack is bad, have to structure their opinion on the subject of the video in a manner that avoids contradiction within their own belief system. I've always believed the mayor has mental health problems (this is not a judgement, I have mental health issues too), so I have no problem accepting that he smoked crack.
First of all, you're not giving yourself enough credit. You believed that walking in front of a moving vehicle was going to hurt well before you saw it happen. This is how people survived before video. We learn that impact with fast-moving objects hurts, and impact with heavy objects hurt, so we extrapolate that impacts with heavy, fast moving objects will hurt a lot. The same is true for the crack allegation. I don't have to see the video, I can extrapolate from what I learned about Rob Ford, the media, and other sources that it is likely to be true. Of course, my degree of certainty is far below my degree of certainty that walking in front of a moving vehicle will injure me, but I still believe it enough to be willing to state it openly and risk the embarrassment of being proven wrong later, as the story unfolds.
Secondly, while you are right that perception is not reality, the fact is that perception matters more than reality. The guy who believes that a fast moving bus can't hurt him is not going to have any problem stepping out into traffic, reality be damned. Of course, this person would be labelled insane but the same principles applies to everybody, sane or not. The guy who bets on red in roulette is not insane, but he's not motivated by reality either. He's motivated by his belief. Some of us believe that a mayor who shoots from the hip and who focusses solely on cutting down the budget is the best thing for the city. Others believe a mayor who is diplomatic and weighs the pros and cons of adding more services is best. Reality has nothing to do with either view. These preferences are built up on layer upon layer of personal beliefs, that force us to conclude one way or another on what a good mayor would look like, in order to avoid collapsing our whole belief structure into a pile of cognitive dissonance.
In this story, people who believe the mayor is a good guy, but who also believe that smoking crack is bad, have to structure their opinion on the subject of the video in a manner that avoids contradiction within their own belief system. I've always believed the mayor has mental health problems (this is not a judgement, I have mental health issues too), so I have no problem accepting that he smoked crack.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
I pretty much treat almost everything they say as made up, anyway, since their slant pulls actual news out of all original proportions.
I pretty much treat almost everything they say as made up, anyway, since their slant pulls actual news out of all original proportions.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
That wasn't enough for their business model.
That wasn't enough for their business model.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
Wouldn't they have to bring charges immediately? He is committed a crime so...
It would not take months as you put it for them to get and present the evidence.
At the most a week for them to line up their ducks for a Judge.
So the Police are letting a law breaking crack head run the city?
Wouldn't they have to bring charges immediately? He is committed a crime so...
It would not take months as you put it for them to get and present the evidence.
At the most a week for them to line up their ducks for a Judge.
So the Police are letting a law breaking crack head run the city?
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
Even if they have the video, which we don't know, they would want to verify that it was undoctored. If it was genuine, they still wouldn't be able to tell what was in the crack pipe, it would be circumstantial evidence. It might be more useful as a tool to investigate further, where was it taken, with whom, on who's camera, and hunt down those leads.
A court of law has much higher standards of evidence than the court of public opinion.
Even if they have the video, which we don't know, they would want to verify that it was undoctored. If it was genuine, they still wouldn't be able to tell what was in the crack pipe, it would be circumstantial evidence. It might be more useful as a tool to investigate further, where was it taken, with whom, on who's camera, and hunt down those leads.
A court of law has much higher standards of evidence than the court of public opinion.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
You're assuming that there is a video and that, if it does in fact exist, that it's genuine. I assume neither. You're also assuming that it would be enough evidence, in and of itself, to support a charge and conviction. This is not the case.
You're assuming that there is a video and that, if it does in fact exist, that it's genuine. I assume neither. You're also assuming that it would be enough evidence, in and of itself, to support a charge and conviction. This is not the case.
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
You can't prove the video does not exist any more than you can prove god doesn't exist. the only way to prove with out a doubt that the video exists is to produce the video, just like the only way to prove god exists is produce them. lots of people believe in god and are willing to fight over which way to believe god exists, believing in a video doesn't take much faith comparatively speaking
the video doesn't prove he smoked crack, just that he smoked something out of a crack pipe
You can't prove the video does not exist any more than you can prove god doesn't exist. the only way to prove with out a doubt that the video exists is to produce the video, just like the only way to prove god exists is produce them. lots of people believe in god and are willing to fight over which way to believe god exists, believing in a video doesn't take much faith comparatively speaking
the video doesn't prove he smoked crack, just that he smoked something out of a crack pipe
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Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
Read and absorbed your whole post. Looks like we have a different take on things. No need to drag it out further imho. But I would like to address the gambler as that's a good example.
That looks like a line I might read in an expose on problem gambling or editorials about bringing casinos downtown etc. It reads like a fact. That's my initial perception. But is it a fact? My intuition says probably not.
re: cognitive dissonance, well played. I do that myself sometimes
Read and absorbed your whole post. Looks like we have a different take on things. No need to drag it out further imho. But I would like to address the gambler as that's a good example.
That looks like a line I might read in an expose on problem gambling or editorials about bringing casinos downtown etc. It reads like a fact. That's my initial perception. But is it a fact? My intuition says probably not.
re: cognitive dissonance, well played. I do that myself sometimes
Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!
The parent fears for their child's safety among strangers when, statistically, he is both more safe today than in the past, and more safe around strangers than people known to him.
The person who has had a bad experience with police thinks that most are corrupt, when the opposite is statistically so.
The gambler thinks that the longer he plays the more likely he is to win the big pay-off, when the statistical likelihood doesn't change from play to play.
We believe what we want to believe, no matter what evidence there is to the contrary.
Read and absorbed your whole post. Looks like we have a different take on things. No need to drag it out further imho. But I would like to address the gambler as that's a good example.
That looks like a line I might read in an expose on problem gambling or editorials about bringing casinos downtown etc. It reads like a fact. That's my initial perception. But is it a fact? My intuition says probably not.
re: cognitive dissonance, well played. I do that myself sometimes
The parent fears for their child's safety among strangers when, statistically, he is both more safe today than in the past, and more safe around strangers than people known to him.
The person who has had a bad experience with police thinks that most are corrupt, when the opposite is statistically so.
The gambler thinks that the longer he plays the more likely he is to win the big pay-off, when the statistical likelihood doesn't change from play to play.
We believe what we want to believe, no matter what evidence there is to the contrary.
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