2012 Auto Show

[Brian P]

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Never mind...the whole industry will pull the plug on hybrids soon. The volume is so low and they are not profitable..I read they sold 26,000 hybrids in Canada last year..something like 0.2% of the total cars sold. And the Volt is really not what Toyota is offering..it's a slightly different animal.

The CAFE regulations that the US government will see to it that hybrids will continue. There are several new ones in the works. Going forward, at a certain point it's likely that more models will be available only in a hybrid version.

Buick Lacrosse - for 2012 the "e-assist" mild hybrid powertrain comes standard. This is an improved version of GM's belt-alternator-starter hybrid system - which was lame in the original version, but this time it seems to have been done better. The motor has more power (15 hp IIRC) and it's mated to a 6-speed auto tranny instead of the old 4-speed auto. It uses the hybrid system to help the drivetrain avoid having to downshift to a lower gear on hills, etc.

Honda's hybrid systems have been lame and riddled with problems (battery life, and fuel consumption that did not live up to expectations). Remains to be seen whether they'll fix this. Honda seems bent on using mechanical CVT transmissions, which aren't all that efficient ...

The new hybrid Ford Fusion looks promising. The hybrid part of it now has more power, and it's mated to a 2.0 litre 4 cylinder engine which is basically the Ecoboost engine but without the turbo. There's going to be a plug-in version called "Energi".

The old Ford Escape hybrid goes away, but there's a new Ford C-Max which is only going to be available in a hybrid version.

There's a new VW Jetta hybrid coming, too. This one has a hope of just maybe being decent to drive. Expected 45 mpg US rating (Prius is 50) but this one uses a 1.4 TSI turbocharged engine with 150 hp plus another 30-ish from the electric motor, and it's matched to a 7-speed DSG transmission. It ought to be a whole lot faster than a Prius and be more "normal" to drive ... and VW has generally been better at getting ride, handling, and steering right than Toyota has been. (No reason it should be any different from the normal Jetta.) Folks on the VW websites who poked around in the car at the Detroit show say it's got the GLI's independent rear suspension (the regular version of the current Jetta uses a beam axle) and the GLI's upgraded interior bits (the cheapened interior is what the current Jetta got raked over the coals for when it was introduced).

 

[SunnY S]

while the Volt almost doubled year-earlier sales to 603 vehicles."

Is this before GM had to buy a bunch of them back, because of their potential to catch fire after an accident?

Nothing more comforting to me after dropping $45,000, than knowing the car you are driving has the potential to burn you to death when trapped in a car wreck.

"As of January 5, 2012, GM reported that around 250 Volt owners had requested either a loaner vehicle or a potential buyback."
[SUP]


[/SUP]

 

[SunnY S]

Lol.

P.S. Take this as good natured ribbing - I'm quite enjoying the amount of info coming out of this thread, and in no way am I suggesting anyone is wrong - it's good to be passionate about stuff, even those terribad imports...

:thumbup:

 

[SunnY S]

Similar to what happened to Integras......marketing changed the name.

More like, similar to how GM keeps changing the name of their vehicles every few years, so customers don't make the connection to how bad the previous generation was.

GM :

Cavalier-----> Cobalt---------> Cruze

Honda

Civic-----> Civic-------> Civic

 

[SunnY S]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

I wonder if Honda or Toyota would get the same. Because they manufacture the civic and Lexus RX350 in Ontario. Showa also manufacture the suspension for the civic, right in Schomberg Ontario

According to Honda Canada, more than 70% of the Hondas sold in Canada, are built in Canada.

These are : Civic, MDX, CR-V, and ZDX

3 of those 4 models are selling extremely well. The Civic being Canadas best selling car for 14 consecutive years.

No gov't assistance will be required, thanks!

 

[murf]

More like, similar to how GM keeps changing the name of their vehicles every few years, so customers don't make the connection to how bad the previous generation was.

GM :

Cavalier-----> Cobalt---------> Cruze

Honda

Civic-----> Civic-------> Civic

What happened to the Integra then?
I'm sure you realize it's just marketing decisions.


Impala------->Impala------>Impala
Same for the Corvette, Regal, Yukon etc . Just names.

 

[murf]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

According to Honda Canada, more than 70% of the Hondas sold in Canada, are built in Canada.

Civic, MDX, CR-V, and ZDX

3 of those 4 models are selling extremely well. The Civic being Canadas best selling car for 14 consecutive years.

No gov't assistance will be required, thanks!

they get plenty of govt continuous govt assistance at home. That country hasn't been able to get itself out of a deep recession for 2 decades. Just imagine how bad it would be if the govt didn't protect them.

The big focus should be on the biggest car market, how them Japs doing over there?

Lol

 

[invictus43]

What happened to the Integra then?
I'm sure you realize it's just marketing decisions.


Impala------->Impala------>Impala
Same for the Corvette, Regal, Yukon etc . Just names.

I agree with SunnyS on this..you might THINK it's a name..but it's more. People, I think, like continuity..the belief that what they are buying are not lame ducks. Remember the Chevy Optra? They pull this thing over from Europe or South Korea..wherever it was from..dump it on unsuspecting customers, then pull the plug on it in 2 years. Now people are looking at their POS "Chevy" in the driveway that has no value (people don't want to buy a car that's not even produced anymore..) and they're going "WTF GM??" Yeah, GM has carried on some of their name brands, but the Honda Accord has resale value written all over it. Can you say that about a Chevy Sonic?? I'm not talking quality here..purely marketing and brand strategy..

 

[murf]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

No gov't assistance will be required, thanks!

I'm starting to think you are not aware of the auto history in Japan?

"Ironically, a natural disaster gave the first impetus to Japan's auto business, but domestic producers were unfortunately not in a position to take advantage. Tokyo's great earthquake of September 1, 1923 crippled the city's railway and tramcar system. One thousand buses were shipped from Ford in the United States. The passenger vehicle opportunity had arrived in Japan, but only the American producers could respond. Domestic manufacturers were very small-scale, primitive in production technology, and severely under capitalized. Automobile production in 1923 is estimated at less than two hundred units.

Within two years, both Ford and General Motors established wholly-owned onshore assembly operations. Japan Ford corporation was formed in Yokohama in late 1924. Japan General Motors, headquartered in Osaka, followed in 1925. By 1929, the two companies combined produced nearly 30,000 automobiles. Parts and sub-assemblies were imported from the United States for domestic assembly. Each organized a finance company and introduced the installment purchase in Japan. Within five years of their coming, Ford and General Motors controlled 85% of the Japanese market with onshore production.

A change of attitude, at least by government, began to emerge around 1930. In that year, the Ministry of Commerce and Industry - the predecessor of the Ministry of International Trade and Industry (MITI) - instructed its Domestic Industries Promotion Committee to study the future of the automobile industry and the implications of domination by foreign capital. In the following year, a formal automobile industry committee was established. During the next five years, the Ministry's view of a domestic auto industry shifted from one of moderate desirability to strong necessity. Strategies for protection and development were formulated, and by 1936 major legislation aimed at forcing Ford and General Motors out of Japan was prepared."

And on it went.........

A history of trade with Japan

"I haven't got anything against open competition. If they can build a better car and sell it for less money,
let 'em do it. But what burns me up is that I can't go into Japan. We can't build, we can't sell, we can't service,
we can't do a damn thing over there ... I think this country ought to have the guts to stand up to unfair competition."
- Henry Ford II (1969)
How many small Korean cars imported to Japan in 2008? 502!

 

[dr_sarcasm]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

Hmmm, look who JD Power & Associates ranked as the most dependable... http://www.wheels.ca/columns/article/794526

 

[RockerGuy]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

According to Honda Canada, more than 70% of the Hondas sold in Canada, are built in Canada.

Civic, MDX, CR-V, and ZDX

3 of those 4 models are selling extremely well. The Civic being Canadas best selling car for 14 consecutive years.

No gov't assistance will be required, thanks!

don't forget to mention the Toyota matrix

 

[backmarkerducati]

More like, similar to how GM keeps changing the name of their vehicles every few years, so customers don't make the connection to how bad the previous generation was.

GM :

Cavalier-----> Cobalt---------> Cruze

Honda

Civic-----> Civic-------> Civic

How about:
Vega/Monza--->Cavalier-----> Cobalt---------> Cruze

In all fairness the iconic models in GM's line-up keep their names through the generations, as others have mentioned:

Impala
Corvette
Camaro (although it was gone for a while).
All longer than the Civic has been around.

Same with Ford and the Mustang etc.

 

[murf]

They are names.......a marketing tool. As Engineers they are referred to as numeric or alphanumeric codes during the development and get a name sometimes just before Launch.

 

[optionfa]

seriously forget hybrid, go diesel!

 

[Gummiente]

They are names.......a marketing tool. As Engineers they are referred to as numeric or alphanumeric codes during the development and get a name sometimes just before Launch.

After the syllables and numbers have been test marketed first, of course.

 

[invictus43]

seriously forget hybrid, go diesel!

Honestly..TDI is probably the most sensible choice..

 

[DarylinAjax]

Honestly..TDI is probably the most sensible choice..

TDI as in "VW" TDI?

VW may be the best choice in the "affordable diesel" category at the moment but I wouldn't reco that manufacturer to anyone.

My experience with V-dubs is that while they are a fantastic vehicle to drive their reliability is dismal after 3-4 years of ownership. I've owned five VW's (and one Audi) and was on a first-name basis with my local dealer's service manager before I finally had enough - I drive a Nissan now.

IMO VW's have solid bodies, engines, and transmissions but it's everything else that seems to be the issue (for me: seats, brakes, ignition coils, window winder, wiper linkage, computer, ABS sensors, HVAC, innumerable "bad grounds" etc etc.).

To get the payback on diesel at say 20K km's per year you need to keep the vehicle 8-10 years. That's waaaay past the best-before date for this manufacturer. No thanks.

I've not given up hope on buying a diesel however. Kudos to Mazda for their soon-to-be-released diesel and I hear other manufacturers are getting in the game (finally!).

Soon VW will have some real competition in the "Affordable Diesel" category. About time!

 

[SunnY S]

What happened to the Integra then?
I'm sure you realize it's just marketing decisions.


Impala------->Impala------>Impala
Same for the Corvette, Regal, Yukon etc . Just names.

What happened to Integra name? Easy, around mid 90s, Acura discovered that the model names of the car garnered more recognition than the luxury Acura brand itself. So they did away with Legend, Vigor, and Integra, and adopted alpha numerical names for the models, just as BMW, Audi, M-B and others do.


As for Impala---->Impala? I'm pretty sure there was a Caprice Classic model inserted in there at some point. Jus sayin.

 

[SunnY S]

How about:
Vega/Monza--->Cavalier-----> Cobalt---------> Cruze

In all fairness the iconic models in GM's line-up keep their names through the generations, as others have mentioned:

Impala
Corvette
Camaro (although it was gone for a while).
All longer than the Civic has been around.

Same with Ford and the Mustang etc.

Perhaps the Iconic names, like the Corvette and Camaro is fitting, since they use the same basic V8 engine architecture from 1955.

But if you look at the history of their pathetic mini vans,

Lumina APV---------> Venture-------->Uplander--------> and now, the korean made Orlando with, the "Corvette inspired interior" according to GM marketing malarky.

 

[Gummiente]

the korean made Orlando with, the "Corvette inspired interior" according to GM marketing malarky.

An attempt to pacify the average owner who was forced to sell his zippy two door coupe when he knocked up his then girlfriend, making him feel slightly better about having to commute in a minivan ever since she removed his testicles for safekeeping in her purse. Same idea why they came out with "Sport" versions of the minivans. Like adding boy racer, pinstriped bodywork and alloy rims could ever compensate for the loss of a beloved Camaro or Mustang.

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