2012 Auto Show

[SunnY S]

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Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

Hmmm, look who JD Power & Associates ranked as the most dependable... http://www.wheels.ca/columns/article/794526

Lincoln? They havent sold enough cars for JD to make an accurate assessment for true quality representation.

BMW sells more 3 series models alone, then ALL of Lincoln franchise models combined.

 

[SunnY S]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

they get plenty of govt continuous govt assistance at home. That country hasn't been able to get itself out of a deep recession for 2 decades. Just imagine how bad it would be if the govt didn't protect them.

The big focus should be on the biggest car market, how them Japs doing over there?

Lol

I only concern myself with being able to buy the best cars I can buy in the country I live in. If I had to worry about world politics, I'd lose sleep that Greece is getting a $173 billion dollar bailout.


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[SunnY S]

Honestly..TDI is probably the most sensible choice..

If you study automotive trends, diesel is not "in the future". At least for the North American market.

Honda, Toyota, and even GM have recently put back on the shelf the plans for diesel engines.

I'm not knocking diesels or saying they're bad.

Everything points to hybrids and electrics for the future.


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[SunnY S]

. Same idea why they came out with "Sport" versions of the minivans. Like adding boy racer, pinstriped bodywork and alloy rims could ever compensate for the loss of a beloved Camaro or Mustang.

Cmon now....who wouldnt want THIS over a silly Mustang? That cool pink "Sport" logo and pinstriping on the side, and think of the extra downforce all those aerodynamic aids provide!

It sure beats a "Corvette interior inspired" Chevy Orlando minivan!

 

[dr_sarcasm]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

Lincoln? They havent sold enough cars for JD to make an accurate assessment for true quality representation.

BMW sells more 3 series models alone, then ALL of Lincoln franchise models combined.

Agreed.

Honestly, I was a bit shocked to see it was Lincoln. I mean, c'mon...really...Lincoln?

 

[murf]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

I only concern myself with being able to buy the best cars I can buy in the country I live in. If I had to worry about world politics, I'd lose sleep that Greece is getting a $173 billion dollar bailout.


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Why mention bailouts and Japanese govt then?

No gov't assistance will be required, thanks!

 

[invictus43]

If you study automotive trends, diesel is not "in the future". At least for the North American market.

Honda, Toyota, and even GM have recently put back on the shelf the plans for diesel engines.

I'm not knocking diesels or saying they're bad.

Everything points to hybrids and electrics for the future.


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Yup, I understand. North America just isn't a diesel market for various reasons..gov't regs..consumer demand.. But as far as payback goes, I think they make more sense than hybrids. I'm still not quite clear on where all those old batteries are going.. And I'm not really convinced electrics are the future either..that electricity has to get generated and delivered and our grid can't do it currently.

 

[murf]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

Lincoln? They havent sold enough cars for JD to make an accurate assessment for true quality representation.

BMW sells more 3 series models alone, then ALL of Lincoln franchise models combined.

What is the statistically significant sample size then? 5000+ a month isn't?

 

[OpenGambit]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

Screw all of this, The Honda FCX Clarity is the future.

 

[NP6000]

If you study automotive trends, diesel is not "in the future". At least for the North American market.

Honda, Toyota, and even GM have recently put back on the shelf the plans for diesel engines.

I'm not knocking diesels or saying they're bad.

Everything points to hybrids and electrics for the future.


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This is incorrect, along with many other things you have posted in this thread. GM is developing a diesel for NA market. As is Mazda.

Hybrids and full electrics are not the (near) future. They are a very small part of the current market share, and are estimated to represent ~ 5% of total market share by 2025.

The near term will be engine and vehicle downsizing, supercharger/turbocharger/twin charger, tri turbo setup, exhaust heat recovery systems, increased compression ratios, increased DI pressures, electro hydraulic valve actuation, different versions of BMW's valvetronic technology.

Near-medium term technologies being developed are HCCI/PCCI combustion systems, lean burn stratified DI injection with lean NOx traps, variable compression ratio engines, opposed piston engines, split cycle engines and the list goes on.

 

[SunnY S]

This is incorrect, along with many other things you have posted in this thread. GM is developing a diesel for NA market. As is Mazda.

Hybrids and full electrics are not the (near) future. They are a very small part of the current market share, and are estimated to represent ~ 5% of total market share by 2025.

The near term will be engine and vehicle downsizing, supercharger/turbocharger/twin charger, tri turbo setup, exhaust heat recovery systems, increased compression ratios, increased DI pressures, electro hydraulic valve actuation, different versions of BMW's valvetronic technology.

Near-medium term technologies being developed are HCCI/PCCI combustion systems, lean burn stratified DI injection with lean NOx traps, variable compression ratio engines, opposed piston engines, split cycle engines and the list goes on.

Yes, the list goes on...........Hybrid and electric tech will continue to be developed and adopted.......

Watch for variation of hybrid technologies known as "flybrids" which will rely less on batteries..... http://www.flybridsystems.com/ Flybrid technology uses electric motors/generators on the front axle to transmit braking energy to an electrified flywheel, spinning it up to 40,000 rpm for potent kinetic energy  that is later returned to the motors to boost acceleration.

Companies such as Ferrari, Porsche, Jaguar are all developing some sort of hybrid/flybrid technology.

Audi is working on electric motors for its R8, as is Mercedes with their SLS eDrive super car.

Toyota is, or will soon be passing its diesel development work to BMW, so that it can "continue to focus on hybrid and battery technologies"

Acura's upcoming NSX will be powered by an internal combustion engine combined with an electric motor, and a further 2 electric motors for the front wheels to make some sort of Electric SH-AWD system.

The next Honda Accord will feature a hybrid system with 2 electric motors, one to charge the battery, and the other to spin the wheels. Early previews of the system are promising. This system apparently gives the car much improved highway mileage. Something current hybrid cars are lacking.

 

[Brian P]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

Screw all of this, The Honda FCX Clarity is the future.

Not going to happen. When you look at the big picture and not just the vehicle and get the politics out of it, hydrogen as a motor vehicle fuel makes no sense whatsoever. The laws of thermodynamics work against it at too many steps in the process.

 

[caboose56]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

I'm still chuckling over the statement about GM's lack of racing pedigree. That's gold, Jerry! GOLD!

 

[SunnY S]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

What is the statistically significant sample size then? 5000+ a month isn't?

This is an average of just over 400 cars per state per month, whats the median age of the average Lincoln owner? 50? 60? or more?

How much driving do these people actually do? Occasional Sunday drives?

Is their Lincoln their daily driver?





US dealers are pleading with Ford to make a competitive product due to their sluggish sales. Ford wants them to spend $1 million+ dollars to upgrade each showroom, and feels thats the problem. Yeah, ok.

Besides, that last JD link was referring to 2008 vehicles......lets see how Ford and Lincoln are doing in 2011....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43511239/Ford_Quality_Tumbles_in_J_D_Power_Survey


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[caboose56]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

This is an average of just over 400 cars per state per month, whats the median age of the average Lincoln owner? 50? 60? or more?

How much driving do these people actually do? Occasional Sunday drives?

Is their Lincoln their daily driver?

Another statement straight out of the 1990s. The MKX and MKZ aren't really "old people" cars.

 

[NP6000]

Yes, the list goes on...........Hybrid and electric tech will continue to be developed and adopted.......

Watch for variation of hybrid technologies known as "flybrids" which will rely less on batteries..... http://www.flybridsystems.com/ Flybrid technology uses electric motors/generators on the front axle to transmit braking energy to an electrified flywheel, spinning it up to 40,000 rpm for potent kinetic energy  that is later returned to the motors to boost acceleration.

Companies such as Ferrari, Porsche, Jaguar are all developing some sort of hybrid/flybrid technology.

Audi is working on electric motors for its R8, as is Mercedes with their SLS eDrive super car.

Toyota is, or will soon be passing its diesel development work to BMW, so that it can "continue to focus on hybrid and battery technologies"

Acura's upcoming NSX will be powered by an internal combustion engine combined with an electric motor, and a further 2 electric motors for the front wheels to make some sort of Electric SH-AWD system.

The next Honda Accord will feature a hybrid system with 2 electric motors, one to charge the battery, and the other to spin the wheels. Early previews of the system are promising. This system apparently gives the car much improved highway mileage. Something current hybrid cars are lacking.

Hybrid based on battery technology will be on a limited scale, unless the cost of the batteries and e-motors come down in price dramatically. That is looking less likely than the improvements in combustion technologies for CI, SI and PCCI/HCCI, which come a reduced cost and increases profit for the manufacturers.

At the moment, I think it is only Toyota that turns a profit on Hybrids.

Energy recovery systems will proliferate, but calling them "hybrids" would be a bit of a stretch. The masses can't afford the cost of these technologies anyways. How many people can afford the standard R8, mercedes SLS, etc ? Those are mostly design exercises, the added cost is the barrier to these technologies becoming common place.

Let me be the first to say that if I could afford to drive an R8 or SLS, fuel economy can be damned...

 

[murf]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

This is an average of just over 400 cars per state per month, whats the median age of the average Lincoln owner? 50? 60? or more?

How much driving do these people actually do? Occasional Sunday drives?

Is their Lincoln their daily driver?





US dealers are pleading with Ford to make a competitive product due to their sluggish sales. Ford wants them to spend $1 million+ dollars to upgrade each showroom, and feels thats the problem. Yeah, ok.

Besides, that last JD link was referring to 2008 vehicles......lets see how Ford and Lincoln are doing in 2011....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43511239/Ford_Quality_Tumbles_in_J_D_Power_Survey


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Again, what is a statistical significant amount? There are plenty of Lexus models that sell less than Lincoln.
Or are you now saying it's not a statistics issue, it's an age issue?
Looks like the Lexus quality results are invalid in that case lol


http://www.egmcartech.com/2009/09/0...s-56-is-it-headed-for-the-same-fate-as-buick/

 

[SunnY S]

Hybrid based on battery technology will be on a limited scale, unless the cost of the batteries and e-motors come down in price dramatically.

Energy recovery systems will proliferate. The masses can't afford the cost of these technologies anyways. How many people can afford the standard R8, mercedes SLS, etc ? Those are mostly design exercises, the added cost is the barrier to these technologies becoming common place.

Remember when plasma TV's cost $18,000 and were exclusively for the rich?

 

[SunnY S]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

Again, what is a statistical significant amount? There are plenty of Lexus models that sell less than Lincoln.
Or are you now saying it's not a statistics issue, it's an age issue?
Looks like the Lexus quality results are invalid in that case lol


http://www.egmcartech.com/2009/09/0...s-56-is-it-headed-for-the-same-fate-as-buick/

Whether you choose to believe it or not, Lincoln are struggling and sinking fast. Their US market share is a piddly 0.8%. Their owners median age is the oldest of all the luxury car groups at 62, and they possess the least median income.

2011 US sales :

BMW 247,907
Lexus 198,522
Lincoln 85,633

The Lincoln is only available in North America, so with these pathetic figures, IMHO, its hard to guage an accurate number of true quality. The Lexus and BMW are sold to WORLDWIDE markets, and in greater numbers, so there are several Quality reports available all over the world to better guage their products from people that actually own them!


Cadillac

Average Age of Owner: 62
Median Income: $129,656
4-Year College Degree: 21.90%

BMW

Average Age of Owner: 49
Median Income: $169,289
4-Year College Degree: 29.07%

Lexus

Average Age of Owner: 56
Median Income: $141,745
4-Year College Degree: 26.45%

Mercedes-Benz

Average Age of Owner: 53
Median Income: $174,558
4-Year College Degree: 27.74%

Audi

Average Age of Owner: 49
Median Income: $183,601
4-Year College Degree: 31.66%

Lincoln

Average Age of Owner: 62
Median Income: $113,782
4-Year College Degree: 25.47%

 

[caboose56]

Re: GM still facing huge pension shortfall

Whether you choose to believe it or not, Lincoln are struggling and sinking fast. Their US market share is a piddly 0.8%. Their owners median age is the oldest of all the luxury car groups at 62, and they possess the least median income.

On what stats are you basing your opinion that they are struggling and sinking fast? Or are you just sharing your personal opinion again?

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