It's all about CYA. The province states the minimum requirement and that's all that any service provides for. Requirements should definitely be increased.
|
|
|
Yet another shooting in the USA - 2
- Thread starter TheNewDude
- Start date
It's all about CYA. The province states the minimum requirement and that's all that any service provides for. Requirements should definitely be increased.
I don't know if police forces go by these minimum guidelines or if they increase the mandatory training, but whats outlined above is a joke.
1.5 hours and 100 rounds per year!! WTF?? God I hope most of them train more than that
They are their for a paycheck. Lots of cops arent physically fit, i doubt they care too much about weapon proficiency either.
rmemedic
Well-known member
It's called Simunition. It hurts, it's pretty damn real (real enough that your body reacts to the stress like a real situation) and you can practice any possible scenario with it. I've done a few days with it doing urban ops training. So yeah, there are ranges you can go to where the target shoots back (and in my case were the experienced instructors)
I love those range days. Some people will only shoot what they need to, but I go back for more and more ammo until I can't squeeze the trigger any more.
Gixxer6
Well-known member
So, no, they aren't any ranges that shoot actual BULLETS back at you...
rmemedic
Well-known member
It's nothing like paintball. Trust me, you do not want to get hit by these things, it puts your stress level through the roof with the scenarios and the fear of being shot. And considering they come out of REAL guns with a bang and fly fast enough you can't see the projectile it's pretty real.
Its real enough to properly train with... Cops are just horrible shots (but, so are most military people).
And I made no mention of simunition .... ranges that shoot live ammo at you was what I quoted.
So ???
Seriously, take your own advice and do the same....
Sorry, no points found. Found some herp and a bit of derp.....
Out of curiosity, what if any experience do you have with any kind of firearms training, be it military, LE, private security etc?
I mean, it sounds like you have none whatsoever but maybe I'm just reading into it wrong.
Out of curiosity, what if any experience do you have with any kind of firearms training, be it military, LE, private security etc?
I mean, it sounds like you have none whatsoever but maybe I'm just reading into it wrong.
Gixxer6
Well-known member
I have some, not too sure what this has to do with this situation.
All i'm saying is that you can have all the "range" experience in the world but it may not make a lick of difference if you are facing someone firing back (in regards to this NYC situation). D23 you may have been in a similar situation overseas but most cops and non-military people have never been in a gun fight, so even with range experience means very little. A close friend of mine went overseas with the seals about 10 years ago, and even some of his well trained comrads missed a large percentage of the time. In the heat of battle training is huge but it is the mentality of the fighter that wins.
You can practice hitting a heavy bag all you want but when the punches come back it's a whole new ball game.
All i'm saying is that you can have all the "range" experience in the world but it may not make a lick of difference if you are facing someone firing back (in regards to this NYC situation). D23 you may have been in a similar situation overseas but most cops and non-military people have never been in a gun fight, so even with range experience means very little. A close friend of mine went overseas with the seals about 10 years ago, and even some of his well trained comrads missed a large percentage of the time. In the heat of battle training is huge but it is the mentality of the fighter that wins.
You can practice hitting a heavy bag all you want but when the punches come back it's a whole new ball game.
rmemedic
Well-known member
My range time set me up pretty good, and I didn't get near as much as D23 has. However, I must have a bit of a personality disorder because I have no remorse for what happens to the bad guys in any situation where they are trying to kill.
FYI, range time makes a huge difference. In the world wars, only about 15% of soldiers would aim to hit the enemy. The military realized this and then changed how they train on the range, and by the time Viet Nam came around, 95% were aiming to kill. All because of how they were trained on the range.
Constant repetition makes you good. When it comes down to game time, all that muscle memory takes over and you greatly improve your chances. And by training as real as we can (which is just about as real as you can get without it being the real thing) we make ourselves ready. It's all a mental game, and when the bullets come flying, most become aggressive due to our training, even though the first time I had a real bullet shot at me was on tour.
The biggest issue is the adrenaline and what it does to your fine motor skills. This is what people need to learn how to deal with. Only way people can do that is to be put in stressful situations on a regular basis, and most cops are not exposed to it.
Well, I simply disagree. I think the more you practice hitting something, be it a target or a heavy bag, the more effective you will be when you have to hit someone IRL. If you can't do it standing still then you can't do it when someone is shooting at you. Anyways, since it's turning into BS stories about fictional friends, I'll bow out of this one.
That's like arguing a motorcyclist shouldn't bother practicing evasive/emergency maneuvers because you probably won't do it/do it properly in the heat of the moment anyway - just rollover.
Last edited:
Gixxer6
Well-known member
I agree that you will become more effective at hitting the target if all the parameters are consistance, but (in the case of the NYC shooting) bring in a moving target, pedestrian traffic, vehicle, proximity, noise, sunlight, etc. and even a highly trained gunsmith such as you would not maintain target for all of your shots. "If you can't do it standing still then you can't do it when someone is shooting at you." I'm not saying that people can't do it standing still, i'm saying that most people train standing still under ideal conditions and that the introduction of a moving target that is fighting back with a weapon with pedestrians in the background is not a typical training scenario. It baffles me that you, a "range instructor" cannot see the difference or make the connection. If you think a Veteran SEAL that is suffering through PTSD is BS then i guess you should bow out.
That's like arguing a motorcyclist shouldn't bother practicing evasive/emergency maneuvers because you probably won't do it/do it properly in the heat of the moment anyway - just rollover.
No its not, it would be if i was saying that officers should not practice shooting moving targets in a realistic situation, what i am saying is that they should be but are not training in this way because it is likely not possible to do so safely. If these officers were able to set up in a proper shooting stance with all the time and relative calmness of the range then they may have hit their target with every shot, as would most people holding a gun from that distance.
As RMEMEDIC has said "Only way people can do that is to be put in stressful situations on a regular basis, and most cops are not exposed to it". I think that this training is likely more possible in a military setting that in a city policing scenario.
Gixxer6
Well-known member
Just out of curiousity when you had that round fly past you was that an expected situation ie planned attack or the like, or was it a surprise situation? Also, I have asked my cousin about this but he is pretty tight lipped about his experience in Afghanistan, is most of your engagement planned or is it walking through city scapes and encountering the enemy?
For those wondering, regarding the pedestrians being hit by bullets, most were hit by "shrapnel", potted plants and concrete and from ricochet. Reports say that 2 people were hit directly by bullets, the shooter and 1 civilian.
First you can't answer a simple question but rather dance around it to avoid admitting you know **** all about it. Then you tell some BS story about your close "SEAL" friend who you claim says seals aren't able to hit their targets in combat (LOL) and now you are playing the guilt card because I should have known your made up friend had PTSD?
What's next? I should shut up because you are an MMA champion?
LOL
STFU
You're just another internet BS'er
Last edited:
|
|
|
|
|