Which gun should be banned next?

[FiReSTaRT]

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It's kinda wrong to classify bears as predators to us. Maybe the grizzly. If you keep granola bars properly sealed they leave you alone.


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Dude, an oilfield worker was attacked in the middle of a large work camp and it was by a black bear, not a grizzly. I only worked small camps, we definitely had strict policies about food storage/garbage disposal but still needed a bear-chaser on staff.

 

[daught]

Lol, explain that to the typical citiot who hasn't seen a bush outside of his hipster-chick girlfriend's crotch

1. you were anti gun a few years ago and live in etobicoke.
2. ???
3. You get in to guns, you go to shooting ranges, maybe hunt and now you are an NRA die-hard, outdoors expert, calling anyone else names.

Dude, an oilfield worker was attacked in the middle of a large work camp and it was by a black bear, not a grizzly. I only worked small camps, we definitely had strict policies about food storage/garbage disposal but still needed a bear-chaser on staff.

Just because they have policies doesn't mean everyone follows them. One slip will have a bear nosing around. You are not even supposed to eat or keep food where you camp. I am pretty sure those people slip, or some are even negligent knowing they have bear chasers around.

I wonder how she acted around the bear. I've seen people freak and run when they think they see a bear in the bushes. That's a really bad idea.

 

[RockerGuy]

I won't blame the bear & I won't blame coyotes. Are we encroaching on their territory or are they encroaching on our territory? Hard to tell, with cities expanding, there is nowhere for them to go. I really don't blame them.

If one were to attack me I won't hesitate to defend myself

 

[mmmnaked]

1. you were anti gun a few years ago and live in etobicoke.
2. ???
3. You get in to guns, you go to shooting ranges, maybe hunt and now you are an NRA die-hard, outdoors expert, calling anyone else names.

People smarten up once in a while. Its refreshing.

 

[mmmnaked]

I get calls from farmers asking me to come out and get rid of Coyotes that are taking out livestock.
Last year the GFs parents HAD a Coyote that was being overly bold and was seen literally at the back door. Until I received a phone call and looked after the issue.
Up here we have bears walking the streets, Coyotes in the back yard. And there is no doubt Mountain Lions roaming around not too far outside of the GTA.
I don't fear animals, but that's because unless I'm on the mountain bike I'm usually armed when I'm in the bush lol.

I have coyotes in my backyard and Im in 'downtown' Mississauga... my house abuts a ravine and I hear them all the time. One night I was having a beer in front of the house and a coyote leisurely walked 20 feet by me on the sidewalk. I scared the bastard away because they're obviously getting ballsier as time passes. It's not yet reached a point where I'd wanna shoot them, but I'm fairly sure the city will have a good hard look at it as soon as someone's little dog is killed, or worse, a small child harmed.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

People smarten up once in a while. Its refreshing.

Before, I was anti-handgun but pro-hunting, coming from a peasant lineage The biggest influence on me changing my mindset were Aminal's posts in a helmet thread along the lines of "maybe we should stop nannying and let adults be adults". That's how I got a fresh look on the gun debate. The other part of it was actually getting educated on the topic. The biggest anti-gunners don't know anything about guns and just spew out blind propaganda and Hollywood "facts".

 

[rmemedic]

Before, I was anti-handgun but pro-hunting, coming from a peasant lineage The biggest influence on me changing my mindset were Aminal's posts in a helmet thread along the lines of "maybe we should stop nannying and let adults be adults". That's how I got a fresh look on the gun debate. The other part of it was actually getting educated on the topic. The biggest anti-gunners don't know anything about guns and just spew out blind propaganda and Hollywood "facts".

This. Most anti-gun/hunting people either don't have any info, or the info they do have is far from fact. However, it's nearly impossible to talk sense in to them.

Right now there are people protesting the spring bear hunt. They are actively interfering with hunts which is ILLEGAL. One of these nut jobs is going to get lost. They are concerned about cubs loosing their mothers... But considering the rule is to not shoot sows if cubs are present, and the fact these hunters are obviously law abiding because they waited for the hunt to be brought back instead of poaching, the risk is low about that happening... And it's not like the bear population is suffering right now.

 

[Doug Tait]

Just saw this quote today - seems appropriate.

"In the debate over guns, both sides are angry.
The pro-gunners are angry at the ignorance, lies, and distortions of the anti-gunners and
the anti-gunners are angry with the pro-gunners for presenting facts."
- David Champion

 

[promac]

How's that ban on pot working? Bans only affect people who aren't the problem. Promote gun safety. Stalk, harass & abuse the rights of criminals instead.

 

[meester_jamie]

[h=3]one mans opinion... from [url]http://ehowa.com/ nsfw
Smart Gun, Dumb Idea.[/URL][/h] Smart guns soon could be the only kind sold legally in New Jersey under a state law that has languished on the books for over a decade. The law, which requires the state's gun dealers to exclusively sell smart guns within three years after the first one hits the market, has been largely forgotten since the Legislature adopted it in 2002. Earlier in 2014, German company Armatix releases the P1 smart gun, which uses radio frequency technology in its .22-caliber digital pistol, which unlocks with a digital watch and a PIN. If someone who isn't wearing the watch grabs the gun, it immediately deactivates. And now The Brady Campaign is suing the NJ Attorney General to force him to start enforcing the state's smart gun law.

Personally, I'm behind the Brady Campaign on this one. Why? Because it's ****ing New Jersey. The ******** of shitholes. If we can't wall the ****er up, fill it with water and drown em ahh? Then force em all to use smart guns, it'll accomplish the same thing, it'll just take longer. Personally I can't wait for this law to go into effect for the Garden state. I look forward do the first of many new articles detailing how some single mother and her daughters were gang raped and butchered, their meth fueled attackers shrugging off the .22 rounds as if they were mosquito bites. I can't wait to hear about the husband stabbed to death, his smart gun knocked out of his hands and sliding across the floor to the feet of his wife who watched in horror as the home invader slid a butcher knife into his belly while she watched in horror and pulled endlessly on the unresponsive trigger. I can't ****ing wait to hear about the entire family left to burn in an arson fueled inferno, after an ex husband swung a crowbar and smashed the RFID bracelet on his ex wife's wrist, rendering her smart gun a paperweight. And boy howdy, I just sit here tingling with anticipation when some teary eyed bastard tries to explain how he wanted to defend his daughter from the guy pulling her out of the window, but all he kept seeing on his RFID watch was "WARNING BATTERY" every time he tried to fire. And I hope you'll be as enthused as I am when you hear about the single girl who was brutally raped and murdered as she was getting out of the shower, because while her smart gun was indeed in her nightstand right where she left it, her attacker saw the RFID bracelet sitting on the bathroom sink and already smashed it.
Look, I can sit here and rattle off a laundry list of reasons never to depend upon .22lr for self-defense, and then a second laundry list of reasons never to depend upon a smart gun for self-defense. So the very worst ****ing thing you could ever want to defend yourself with, is a .22 caliber smart gun, especially one that costs $10,000. Keep in mind that a top of the line large caliber handgun runs no more than $1,000, and a regular ol dumb .22 handgun runs around $350. And again, the cost of the Armatix P1? $10,000. So if you live in New jersey, have fun defending your family and paying your bills. So if smart guns are such an awesome idea, fine, have law enforcement use them first. Limit all the cops in New Jersey to smart guns for 5 years, and then let me know how it works out. If you still think it's a good idea, fine, then I'll do exactly what this kid does.

 

[unL33T]

Ever heard of drunk drivers who have been convicted 10+ times?

How will a law exactly stop someone who has no respect for the law? Whats to stop a person who's license is suspended from getting into a car and killing someone again? Double ban? Triple ban?

I've seen a guy get sent home from traffic court with no fines simply because he had been fined and jailed for so many things so many times the judge just said, "Well you already owe us $20000, have been thrown in jail, and are jobless. More fines aren't going to accomplish anything and jail didn't seem to make a difference. Just get out of here."

I highly doubt most shootings are done with legal fire arms, anyway.

 

[RockerGuy]

I've seen a guy get sent home from traffic court with no fines simply because he had been fined and jailed for so many things so many times the judge just said, "Well you already owe us $20000, have been thrown in jail, and are jobless. More fines aren't going to accomplish anything and jail didn't seem to make a difference. Just get out of here."

I highly doubt most shootings are done with legal fire arms, anyway.

They should reinstate public flogging. That'll teach him

 

[tricky]

I look forward do the first of many new articles detailing how some single mother and her daughters were gang raped and butchered, their meth fueled attackers shrugging off the .22 rounds as if they were mosquito bites. I can't wait to hear about the husband stabbed to death, his smart gun knocked out of his hands and sliding across the floor to the feet of his wife who watched in horror as the home invader slid a butcher knife into his belly while she watched in horror and pulled endlessly on the unresponsive trigger. I can't ****ing wait to hear about the entire family left to burn in an arson fueled inferno, after an ex husband swung a crowbar and smashed the RFID bracelet on his ex wife's wrist, rendering her smart gun a paperweight. And boy howdy, I just sit here tingling with anticipation when some teary eyed bastard tries to explain how he wanted to defend his daughter from the guy pulling her out of the window, but all he kept seeing on his RFID watch was "WARNING BATTERY" every time he tried to fire. And I hope you'll be as enthused as I am when you hear about the single girl who was brutally raped and murdered as she was getting out of the shower, because while her smart gun was indeed in her nightstand right where she left it, her attacker saw the RFID bracelet sitting on the bathroom sink and already smashed it.

Hahahaha

Those are the ramblings of a fear mongering crazy person

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Hahahaha

Those are the ramblings of a fear mongering crazy person

Some facts for you:

1) The official and verifiable figure is about 850,000 cases of legitimate self-defense with the use of a firearm every year in the US. Those are just the reported cases and don't include cases where a gun was presented and/or shots were fired, the attacker ran off and the victim never reported it to the police, which have been estimated to run in the 2,000,000 range.

2) Currently, in Canada and the UK, about 50% of forceful entries into home happen with the homeowner present. In the US, where people are allowed to have guns ready for self-defense and most households have guns, only 13% of breakins happen with the homeowner present.

Bottom line, adding complexity to guns reduces reliability and interferes with the owner's basic human right to defend his life.

 

[unL33T]

I'm not really a "gun guy" but the increasing reports of home invasions, especially while the people are home, has also started to put me a little on edge.

Then again, our self defense laws are kind of crappy, too.

 

[tricky]

Some facts for you:

1) The official and verifiable figure is about 850,000 cases of legitimate self-defense with the use of a firearm every year in the US. Those are just the reported cases and don't include cases where a gun was presented and/or shots were fired, the attacker ran off and the victim never reported it to the police, which have been estimated to run in the 2,000,000 range.

2) Currently, in Canada and the UK, about 50% of forceful entries into home happen with the homeowner present. In the US, where people are allowed to have guns ready for self-defense and most households have guns, only 13% of breakins happen with the homeowner present.

Bottom line, adding complexity to guns reduces reliability and interferes with the owner's basic human right to defend his life.

Baaaah.... I just can't get onboard with the anti gun control crowd. I suppose I am the product of my environment, I have never really been worried about home invasion or any of that. If America is truly as bad as you and buddy say, then I suppose my opinion would get me killed there eventually.

I'm a simple man, I see the contrast between America and any pro-gun control nation, and the choice to me is easy. Again.. simple man... I don't care if guns reduce the number of home invasions with the owner present, that is a very specific statistic that doesn't do anything for me. I'm sure there are a greater number of negative statistics out there.

That being said, I know gun control would never work in America, guns are too deep seeded in the culture. Even if you could implement control, it'd be too little way too late. I'd expect you'd need a few generations before you start seeing any positive result.

I think Canada is close to striking a fair balance. Obviously the system fails in some (or more than some) aspects, but I think they have the right idea. Handguns should be restricted, autos and sawed offs prohibited, and long guns (including ARs) should be non-restricted. That's my take.

And I know you know this is all coming from a guy with quite a few firearms.

 

[Macs]

Some facts for you:

1) The official and verifiable figure is about 850,000 cases of legitimate self-defense with the use of a firearm every year in the US. Those are just the reported cases and don't include cases where a gun was presented and/or shots were fired, the attacker ran off and the victim never reported it to the police, which have been estimated to run in the 2,000,000 range.

2) Currently, in Canada and the UK, about 50% of forceful entries into home happen with the homeowner present. In the US, where people are allowed to have guns ready for self-defense and most households have guns, only 13% of breakins happen with the homeowner present.

Bottom line, adding complexity to guns reduces reliability and interferes with the owner's basic human right to defend his life.

**** the legal system. If I get brought up on storage charges I have faith in the NFA and CSSA to help me out.

I have my handguns stored legally in my biometric lock safe, with loaded magazines stored with them (but not in them). This system of storage is 100% legal according to the RCMP's website, the Ontario CFO AND YRP. If someone decides to break in I can be in the safe, locked and loaded in 7 seconds. It takes about that time to unlock my phone (assuming I don't drop it under the bed) and dial 911. My gf can do that while I do something useful. It's also been statistically proven that the threat of a firearm is enough to get burglars to run. I don't really give a **** if the cops wanted to collar their bad guy, I'm not putting my safety or my gf's safety in jeopardy by locking us into a bedroom. Take into account as well that I have 3 ballistic vests in our closet and ain't nobody coming up those stairs or down that hallway without eating whatever caliber I get in my hands first.

And the reason I don't use a non-restricted is simply the fact it takes a LOT longer to get the shotgun out and loaded.

That being said, I know gun control would never work in America, guns are too deep seeded in the culture. Even if you could implement control, it'd be too little way too late. I'd expect you'd need a few generations before you start seeing any positive result.

I think Canada is close to striking a fair balance. Obviously the system fails in some (or more than some) aspects, but I think they have the right idea. Handguns should be restricted, autos and sawed offs prohibited, and long guns (including ARs) should be non-restricted. That's my take.

And I know you know this is all coming from a guy with quite a few firearms.

Guns are deeply rooted in Canadian culture too, we're just too apologetic to take a hardline stance like the NRA. We also don't have "arms" written into our constitution although arguably Section 7 of the charter can be used to infer the same thing. I grew up hunting with my family despite a hard anti-gun mom, and I have more than a few knocks on my knuckles and wrists from unsafe handling of my .22 and before that my BB rifle. I shot my first deer when I was 16 and my first moose when I was 19. I'm not here to say we need anything, I firmly believe that some aspects of our current gun control are borderline unconstitutional if not outrightly so. I support licensing, I support the prohibited class (but think it should be downsized to Full-autos only).

My major issue is the Restricted class and all the BS and red tape that comes with it. Where was Kimveer Gill's ATT to bring his guns to Dawson? Where was the ATT for the guy that shot Jane Creba? Magazine capacity restrictions? Oh come on. Pins are idiotic and easy to defeat. ATC to protect life, do I think it's needed? No, but i don't NEED to compete in IPSC either. Subjective tests of knowledge and proficiency, same as getting a PAL. And remove anything prohibited or restricted by name.

My grandfather fought in 2 world wars, he went to Kosovo, he went to Korea. Why do we need to sell his Luger to a museum or american collector or make it a dewat? Why can't I inherit what is rightfully mine?

 

[tricky]

Guns are deeply rooted in Canadian culture too, we're just too apologetic to take a hardline stance like the NRA. We also don't have "arms" written into our constitution although arguably Section 7 of the charter can be used to infer the same thing. I grew up hunting with my family despite a hard anti-gun mom, and I have more than a few knocks on my knuckles and wrists from unsafe handling of my .22 and before that my BB rifle. I shot my first deer when I was 16 and my first moose when I was 19. I'm not here to say we need anything, I firmly believe that some aspects of our current gun control are borderline unconstitutional if not outrightly so. I support licensing, I support the prohibited class (but think it should be downsized to Full-autos only).

My major issue is the Restricted class and all the BS and red tape that comes with it. Where was Kimveer Gill's ATT to bring his guns to Dawson? Where was the ATT for the guy that shot Jane Creba? Magazine capacity restrictions? Oh come on. Pins are idiotic and easy to defeat. ATC to protect life, do I think it's needed? No, but i don't NEED to compete in IPSC either. Subjective tests of knowledge and proficiency, same as getting a PAL. And remove anything prohibited or restricted by name.

My grandfather fought in 2 world wars, he went to Kosovo, he went to Korea. Why do we need to sell his Luger to a museum or american collector or make it a dewat? Why can't I inherit what is rightfully mine?

Absolutely the gun culture is rooted here, as it is with any once-frontier or remote nation... but it is not nearly as widespread or ingrained in the people as in America, with their 2nd amendment rights.

I was shooting BB guns, paintball guns, airsoft as a kid until I got my PAL. I shoot regularly and sometimes hunt with friends... the number of firearms I own is in the double digits. I say this just so you understand where I'm coming from. I absolutely understand the history they have here in Canada.

The ATT, I'd scrap it. But I would keep handguns restricted, for the increased scrutiny in the application process and the registry of who owns what.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

That's a nice setup. With that being said, some NR's can also rock it.. The VZ58's can be adapted to take 10rd xcr pistol mags and a native vz58 pistol mag is just waiting to hit our market. My T97 was perfect with 10rd LAR mags and the reports of using the 14rd PCV mags are encouraging.

Tricky: Just because you don't feel the need to defend yourself doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who do. Why would you want to interfere with the basic human right to defend their life/limb? I personally wouldn't carry a handgun on a daily basis but wouldn't wanna deny someone the option to do so. My take on it is like this:

1) Criminal and mental history checks are fine on a will issue basis. Basically, if they wanna deny you your permit, they have to document it properly and the process should be appealable to an independent 3rd party
2) A firearm is a firearm is a firearm. If you're licensed to own one, there shouldn't be any restrictions on what you should own. Full auto isn't all its cracked up to be. Watch some MLI vids and generally speaking, only yahoos will shoot their M4's in full auto.
3) Storage regs should go away and be dealt with through existing legislation. If somebody sets bear traps around his kids' playpen and a kid gets his arm broken, I'm sure there are laws that will take care of the idiot. If a guy living alone in a cabin in the woods likes to keep a shotgun on the kitchen table, that should be his business
4) ATC's should also be issued on a will-issue basis, upon passing a 1 day course. People who carry legally are less likely to get involved in confrontations since they know what will happen to their guns if ANY culpability can be proven on their part. BTW I've been in situations where an ATC would have saved me from armed robbery.

 

[tricky]

Tricky: Just because you don't feel the need to defend yourself doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who do. Why would you want to interfere with the basic human right to defend their life/limb? I personally wouldn't carry a handgun on a daily basis but wouldn't wanna deny someone the option to do so.

It quite simply goes back to the big picture for me. If I contrast America with any other nation with gun control, I see a strong correlation between gun control and a reduction in homicides.

This document (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/85-002-x2001011-eng.pdf) shows that the 2000 homicide rate in America was 3x higher than here, aggravated assault about 2x, robbery about 2x, while B&E and auto theft rates were 1.2x higher in Canada than America.

So would you rather have much much higher murder, assault and robbery rate, or would you rather have a 20% higher chance of B&E and getting your car jacked?

Answers simple for me.

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