So doing 1:23's all day on my SV what group would I be in, by the books?
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Tmp thurs may 2
- Thread starter carboncat
- Start date
So doing 1:23's all day on my SV what group would I be in, by the books?
weird...cuz that gsxr is a 600, i thought the duc would have more hp than the gsxr.
It's not only about power. I can pass 600's down the straight on my SV just by getting a wicked drive out of the final turn (which is my normal line anyway).
B
Bigevildoer
Guest
That would require a system similar to Pro 6 for all track day organizers. Numbers to make it easy for everyone, and have people at track to actually time people and record the results. People will tend to fudge times in order to ride with friends etc. Sign up for a group, and if you're obviously too fast or too slow, a timer is set. Allow 2-3 laps for an average.
Something like:
If you're 1:24 and under at TMP, bump to red.
If you're 1:25-1:30 at TMP, bump to Yellow
If you're 1:31 and up, Green.
Those numbers are simply pulled out of my might fine behind and have no value - simply used for an arguable reference point.
Would be good if all organizers ran the same numbers, but that would require a centrally administrated database with all the hours necessary for registration etc. But, that would be a ton of work that I'm sure the organizers would be willing to go in on.
well ya, I was just saying cuz he had mentioned there was a HP discrepancy, but I didn't think it was the duc at that particular disadvantage.
Yeah, I'm not sure. Gixxer 600 has a lot of power, and maybe it's lighter.
Green, drop another second and your in yellow lol.
triggerhappy
Well-known member
I was commenting on the footage from the yellow group that was posted, I wasn't riding.
Isn't that the Brazilian flag?
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Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
SFer
Well-known member
So because I'm in the edge of yellow and green but I'm totally comfortable bein passed and for the most part hold good lines for anybody to pass me. I have to get stuck with someone doing a 1:40-2:00 lap! F that.
How come yellow gets 5 second of play and ability to pass, and I (theoretically) get stuck with 28 second disparity and only 2 straights?!
If you want to use those numbers as an arguable reference point.... But if you change yellow to 1:32-1:33. I'm completely ok with what you said
lolThe fighting words are in complete jest but I am totally curious what everyone's opinion is. I wasn't the slowest in the infield but obviously most of the group passed me once depending on when they started their lap.
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There's a certain moderator on here, probably either out enjoying a nice Friday evening or sat weighing his banhammer in his hand, who swings his old fart 400 around pretty well. To me, and probably him and a lot of others, it's all about lines, consistency and decent corner speed. I know that Pro 6, despite their farily tight guidelines, always look at the rider, the bike and the laptime as a package.
On that basis I would say your 1.23 is an extremely valid red group time at TMP. However, unless there's any sort of connect between track day provider and track day rider then lap times as the sole decider are bound to not always work. And thats part of TMPs problem. There really isn't any connect. And there really doesn't seem to be any desire to build one.
I'm pretty sure we've been down this road before. Bottom line is people need to check their egos, but they won't. The only other choices are strict guidelines, peer pressure or ******** like me making an issue out of terrible intermediate riders. Maybe I was too fast for intermediate on this particular day. But for every cherrypicker like me, there were 10 more who should have been in green.
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You only needed half a lap to tell you were in the wrong group, i'm surprised you continued the rest of the session. Your closing speeds compared to the rest of the group were night and day different(actually somewhat dangerous to yourself). You ran a decent pace there last year, you should be running red any time you go back to tmp.
But if you change yellow to 1:32-1:33. I'm completely ok with what you said
Don't think that's a good idea. For one, it will put me right in the Red group, and I'll be mid-pack in there too. There will be 20+ bikes running much faster than me, then me, then 20 bikes running slower than me. There will be 2-3 people in Intermediate, and about 5 bikes in Green. I knew it that one day I'll be running with the fast boys, but not so soon, lol
That said, it's a lot of fun passing people, and if it's somebody doing 1:40+, it's effortless to pass them, even for a newbie like myself. Like I said earlier, did it in Green in the in-field between the two consecutive left turns (not counting the kinky place) a few times, and once between 5 and 7 (if 7 is the left turner), and nobody seemed to care. Also, it's much more fun to pass people than being passed, at least that's how I feel
Fiery, I'm here - procrastinating while I should be finishing an overtime (and overdue) project for work ...
Going strictly by lap times doesn't work. Having half the power of a modern 600 costs me on every straightaway - the longer the straightaway, the more it costs. But straightaway speed isn't an indicator of how well someone is riding. Consistent, predictable cornering lines and on-track behaviour in general are hallmarks of a good rider. Lap times are an indicator but the type and size of bike have to be accounted for. I think I've done 1:24 at TMP, 2 minutes and small change at Shannonville long track. Those would be unremarkable times for a modern 600, but if anyone out there has a Lightweight Sportsman or Vintage Lightweight eligible bike and would like to challenge those times ... bring it on. We need more competitors in SOAR Vintage.
For a track day, 1:23 on an SV at TMP ought to be red-group eligible.
Going strictly by lap times doesn't work. Having half the power of a modern 600 costs me on every straightaway - the longer the straightaway, the more it costs. But straightaway speed isn't an indicator of how well someone is riding. Consistent, predictable cornering lines and on-track behaviour in general are hallmarks of a good rider. Lap times are an indicator but the type and size of bike have to be accounted for. I think I've done 1:24 at TMP, 2 minutes and small change at Shannonville long track. Those would be unremarkable times for a modern 600, but if anyone out there has a Lightweight Sportsman or Vintage Lightweight eligible bike and would like to challenge those times ... bring it on. We need more competitors in SOAR Vintage.
For a track day, 1:23 on an SV at TMP ought to be red-group eligible.
B
Bigevildoer
Guest
So because I'm in the edge of yellow and green but I'm totally comfortable bein passed and for the most part hold good lines for anybody to pass me. I have to get stuck with someone doing a 1:40-2:00 lap! F that.
How come yellow gets 5 second of play and ability to pass, and I (theoretically) get stuck with 28 second disparity and only 2 straights?!
You'll note I mentioned that I pulled those time numbers from my posterior regions, specifically as an arguable point.
Each track organizer would have to look at each rider on an individual basis -- again, this takes extra people and therefore money. Any group time numbers would also be on a sliding scale. If there are a whack of people in green, and some are obviously being held up; and there's room IF there's room in yellow, move them up . If Red is sparsely populated, maybe move some of the better yellows up.
This would really take a lot of manpower/logistics from any track organizer. As mentioned earlier, the marshals at TMP May 2 really seemed more interested in their tan than anything else. I popped a rather excessive wheelie coming to the station at turn 6(?) by due to a bit of ham fisted throttle manipulation exiting turn 5 - the marshal didn't even turn their head my way. Using the way TMP ran the day, this idea of times/groups would never work.
I'm a slower yellow rider or upper green. I was thinking about a bump until I counted the numbers. 19 in Yellow? I'll gladly stay in a 9 rider green group.
It could be argued that I was in the right group and about 20 other people were in the wrong group.
Anyway, I spoke to Doozerdave about laptimes in red just before this session and then jumped up after the video session. If i'm moving up to red I need to be comfortable with my times and my lines before I do so.
SFer
Well-known member
Don't think that's a good idea. For one, it will put me right in the Red group, and I'll be mid-pack in there too. There will be 20+ bikes running much faster than me, then me, then 20 bikes running slower than me. There will be 2-3 people in Intermediate, and about 5 bikes in Green. I knew it that one day I'll be running with the fast boys, but not so soon, lol
That was meant as max. Someone had posted 1:25-1:31 I stretched it 1-2 seconds.
That said, it's a lot of fun passing people, and if it's somebody doing 1:40+, it's effortless to pass them, even for a newbie like myself. Like I said earlier, did it in Green in the in-field between the two consecutive left turns (not counting the kinky place) a few times, and once between 5 and 7 (if 7 is the left turner), and nobody seemed to care. Also, it's much more fun to pass people than being passed, at least that's how I feel
And if they had stuck to their guns on the no passing except on straights?...
How would you have felt?
Someone said something about ego.
It's not an ego thing. At least not for me. Here's why I go yellow
Last year I started in green and every single lap I was stuck behind 1-10 people in the infield. Actually sitting up and putting hand in the knee kinda slow.
I'd past most but the liter bikes that i couldn't catch on the straight and basically be stuck behind the liter bikes for every single lap.
There were less people yesterday. And without the passing rules being enforced I for sure would have gone green. (If i new they weren't actually enforcing) But I'm not paying $130 to be stuck behind someone for 11 corners. Sometimes all the corners.
I would think it drastically depends on who shows up on the day of. And how strict they are on passing.
If 3-4 of the fastest moved to red, where they really belonged
1. They wouldn't be frustrated
2. I could have taken pictures :cough:cough: you know who you are
and 2-3 slowest infielders moved to green (that might include me) I'd be ok IF I could still sensibly pass in green. Thats my thoughts D/t what i went through last year.
And I understand the fast yellows dilemma. But you get held up for 1 maybe 2 corners by the slower riders. Imagine how angry you'd be if you were held up for the whole lap, every lap.
That's this track day noob's perspective. :shrug
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