Did they bait and switch it for a 250cc ??? Lol.
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Tips for knocking down price? Buying a new bike.
- Thread starter JCHC91
- Start date
Did they bait and switch it for a 250cc ??? Lol.
And he signed it anyway...
I'm on Kahuna's side here. From the little we know, there were a lot of red flags and the OP signed a contract despite them.
JCHC91
Well-known member
Well after a somewhat heated conversation with the salesman, I know I can cancel for sure but the refund would not happen, which he mentioned.
He mentioned using it on another bike and I asked why not just let me use it for in-store credit?
He said it's "company policy" this guy loves this phrase.
Anyway, technically couldn't I get OMVIC involved?
They misrepresented my contract in my eyes.
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He mentioned using it on another bike and I asked why not just let me use it for in-store credit?
He said it's "company policy" this guy loves this phrase.
Anyway, technically couldn't I get OMVIC involved?
They misrepresented my contract in my eyes.
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Go for it. You have the right to try.
What was the misrepresentation? Wrong bike listed? That alone should get you out of the contract no?
If it is not that and something a bit more hazy then you may have to learn the lesson again. Read and understand everything you sign.
What was the misrepresentation? Wrong bike listed? That alone should get you out of the contract no?
If it is not that and something a bit more hazy then you may have to learn the lesson again. Read and understand everything you sign.
How did they misrepresent the contract? If it's a matter of the salesman saying 'ya sure you can get a refund if you change your mind *wink*' that's not classified as misrepresentation....if they said you're buying a white bike and getting a black one...that is...
OP...the salesman offered to transfer the deposit to another bike...why not take them up on that offer? Everything is 'company policy' if the salesman doesn't want to play ball.
Anyway, I doubt OMVIC will get involved as the contract misrepresentation may not be clear to all involved...and unfortunately we have not heard from the dealer...and there are always three sides to a story....yours....theirs...and the truth in between. You signed a contract, and you gave them the money. That's just about the only facts we know.
Next bike you buy just reduce the selling price by $500 and you're golden.
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Please elaborate on how they "misrepresented the contract in my eyes".
I felt you were on the right track earlier in this thread when you said "I have learned my lesson and $500 is basically a fee ofr that lesson". You started this thread by asking how you could negotiate a lower price on the bike you had put the deposit down on.
To me this indicated that you were.
1. happy with the bike you had ordered;
2. you were hoping to reopen a deal that had already been agreed upon, (signed the contract).
When the dealership wasn't open to reducing the price and you got the advice, (which in it's basis is solid), on this forum, that the financing and insurance represented a significant investment per month for the next 5 years or so. You then realized that the deal you had made in haste wasn't a "good deal" after all.
So had the advice been that the a "deal is a deal" but you made a good purchase" would you then have simply completed the deal as agreed to or would you have still tried to back out?
Regardless of the answer. you got the advice you got and seeing it as a bad deal you are now expecting the dealership to refund you a deposit, which you gave them in good faith, and for which they in good faith used to order the bike you had agreed to purchase.
Would they be smart after all this to give you your money back?? IMHO had you not named the dealership then sure give you something back, but not all $500. But now that they have been named and they have been, again IMHO unfairly targeted in this thread, I agree with their position let you "out of the contract", but keep the deposit.
People keep saying that the dealership has incurred no cost. They have they had to order the bike, (this requires processing time), the manufacturer charges the dealer for ordering a bike, (otherwise dealers would carry every model in every color etc). The salesman took time with you, he is likely on commission but also on a base salary, (so his time is costed in). Also let's say they bow to the "peer pressure" created in this thread then what do they do next time??? If someone else puts down a deposit and then gets "cold feet" and reads this thread then they too will start a thread to "force the dealerships hand"
Do I think you would have made a bad decision in going forward with this deal?? Absolutely, but it was you who made the deal, it was then you who realized after some sage advice not to go forward. I think you should be happy that the dealership is permitting you to back out without any further penalty. When we were all younger we made impulse buys, so I don't fault in the least for that. I did it and like you I learned my lesson, and lost a deposit, but I am much wiser and a better informed consumer because of it. I am the one who tells a salesman on bigger ticket items. (like my current bike and my current car), that I am going to read the entire contract, BEFORE I sign it and if they would like I can take a blank contract home to review it rather than waste 2 hours of their time.
But i am older and also have dealt with the same bike dealership now through 4 sales contracts so I know our "history" together and that we will "work out' any issues that may arise.
I think it is a mistake to think if this thread gets 1,000, 10,000 or 100,000 views the dealership is going to budge on this, nor do I think they are obligated to. The sales man gave you a contract you "could" have taken the time to get all the details straight. I am sure he didn't say we close at 5 pm and it is 4:55pm so hurry sign it NOW..lol. As the old adage goes... "the devil is in the details"... In this case those details have bitten you in the arse. It doesn't feel good but in the end if you buy a used bike over the financing of this bike you will save MORE than the $500.
Just for full disclosure I am not affiliated with nor have I ever had any business dealings or relationship with Kahuna. I just feel they have followed the contract, (which IS black and white), otherwise why even bother having a contract.
JCHC91
Well-known member
All very valid points.
However, I would like to state that I am not pursuing a refund as my ultimatum, just trying to exhaust all possible outcomes before I cancel the contract.
As I've said. I've already lost $500 so I have nothing to lose.
To those wondering how I think they misrepresented my contract; wrong colour, wrong model listed. It's entirely a different bike.
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Then in this case you call the GM and meet with them and say
'my contract says I am getting ABC bike, you however are providing me with an XYZ motorcycle'
this is a violation of the contract and then you involve OMVIC. If you are getting a different bike then your signed contract states the it's an easy call to OMVIC. If however your salesman said ABC but signed contract states XYZ then it's no use as it's signed for XYZ bike.
if they're going to be finicky with the details then play their game.
I take it the price is off then?
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To those wondering how I think they misrepresented my contract; wrong colour, wrong model listed. It's entirely a different bike.
This "may" give you some bargaining position. Not sure OMVIC would get involved though as it would depend on the bike delivered. Also how it is a misrepresentation if for example you told the salesman I want a white CBR250, but he put down on the contract a Black CBR125, and you signed the contract for the black CBR125, and the price reflected is for the 125 then how do you prove that you "told" him it was supposed to be a white 250??
I am sure he would simply say "no I wrote down and priced the contract based on what he told me." Now if on the other hand you signed the contract and the salesman pulled the old "i'll fill it in later" then again it would be on you as you basically signed a blank contract, (except I expect the pricing was there, WITH the financing costs). Again it would be a he said he said scenario and OMVIC isn't likely to intervene. Now seeing you've chosen to cancel the deal OMVIC is likely to say it really is a moot point as it would have depended upon the bike "delivered" to you. If the contract was wrong but they still managed to order and deliver a white 250 then you would have no issue. Given the contract has been cancelled there is no way to know if they would have screwed up and tried to deliver the wrong bike.
This "may" give you some bargaining position. Not sure OMVIC would get involved though as it would depend on the bike delivered. Also how it is a misrepresentation if for example you told the salesman I want a white CBR250, but he put down on the contract a Black CBR125, and you signed the contract for the black CBR125, and the price reflected is for the 125 then how do you prove that you "told" him it was supposed to be a white 250??
I am sure he would simply say "no I wrote down and priced the contract based on what he told me." Now if on the other hand you signed the contract and the salesman pulled the old "i'll fill it in later" then again it would be on you as you basically signed a blank contract, (except I expect the pricing was there, WITH the financing costs). Again it would be a he said he said scenario and OMVIC isn't likely to intervene. Now seeing you've chosen to cancel the deal OMVIC is likely to say it really is a moot point as it would have depended upon the bike "delivered" to you. If the contract was wrong but they still managed to order and deliver a white 250 then you would have no issue. Given the contract has been cancelled there is no way to know if they would have screwed up and tried to deliver the wrong bike.
JCHC91
Well-known member
So much ambiguity. I hate contracts.
I thought OMVIC favors the customer?
. Required disclosures
1. The make, model, trim level and model year of the vehicle. 2. If the vehicle has been used as a taxi, limousine, police or emergency vehicle. 3. If the vehicle has been leased (rented) on a daily basis and has not been subsequently owned by someone other than a dealer. 4. If any collision or incident damage to the vehicle was greater than $3,000 (and the total cost of repair if known by the dealer). 5. If the vehicle has been classified under the Highway Traffic Act as irreparable, salvage or rebuilt, or was declared a total loss by an insurer. 6. If the vehicle has two or more adjacent panels that are not bumper panels that have been replaced. 7. If the manufacturer’s warranty on the vehicle has been cancelled. 8. If the vehicle has sustained any damage caused by fire. 9. If the vehicle has sustained any damage caused by immersion in liquid that has penetrated to the level of at least the interior floor boards. 10. If there has been structural damage or if the vehicle has had repairs, replacements or alterations to the structure of the vehicle. 11. If the vehicle has an anti-lock braking system that is not operational. 12. If any of the vehicle’s airbags are missing or not operational. 13. If the vehicle requires repair to any of the following: a. Engine, transmission or power train. b. Subframe or suspension. c. Computer equipment. d. Electrical system. e. Fuel operation system. f. Air conditioning. 14. If the contract is for the sale or lease of a specifically identified new motor vehicle (e.g., VIN is known, in stock, etc.), the maximum distance that will be shown on the odometer at time of delivery. 15. If the contract does not specifically identify a new vehicle (e.g., a vehicle which must be located, VIN unknown), the maximum distance that will be shown on the odometer at the time of delivery or a statement initialed by the buyer that there is no maximum. 16. If the contract is for the sale or lease of a used vehicle: a. The total distance driven. b. If the dealer cannot determine the total distance the vehicle has been driven, but can determine a distance the vehicle has been driven as of some past date, that distance and date, together with a statement that “the total distance the vehicle has been driven is believed to be higher.” c. If the dealer is unable to make any type of determination as to total distance driven or as to distance driven from a past date, that “the total distance driven is unknown and may be substantially higher than the reading shown on the odometer.” 17. If the vehicle’s odometer is broken or faulty, has been replaced or rolled back, or is in miles. 18. If the vehicle is materially different from its original or advertised production specifications. 19. If the badge or any other indication on the vehicle relates to a different vehicle model. 20. If the vehicle was previously registered in a jurisdiction other than Ontario, and if so, a statement indicating which jurisdictions. This requirement does not apply if the vehicle has since been registered in Ontario for more than seven years. 21. If the vehicle was recovered subsequent to being reported stolen. 22. A statement of any other facts that could be expected to influence the decision of a reasonable buyer or lessee to purchase or lease the vehicle on the terms disclosed in the contract.
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I thought OMVIC favors the customer?
. Required disclosures
1. The make, model, trim level and model year of the vehicle. 2. If the vehicle has been used as a taxi, limousine, police or emergency vehicle. 3. If the vehicle has been leased (rented) on a daily basis and has not been subsequently owned by someone other than a dealer. 4. If any collision or incident damage to the vehicle was greater than $3,000 (and the total cost of repair if known by the dealer). 5. If the vehicle has been classified under the Highway Traffic Act as irreparable, salvage or rebuilt, or was declared a total loss by an insurer. 6. If the vehicle has two or more adjacent panels that are not bumper panels that have been replaced. 7. If the manufacturer’s warranty on the vehicle has been cancelled. 8. If the vehicle has sustained any damage caused by fire. 9. If the vehicle has sustained any damage caused by immersion in liquid that has penetrated to the level of at least the interior floor boards. 10. If there has been structural damage or if the vehicle has had repairs, replacements or alterations to the structure of the vehicle. 11. If the vehicle has an anti-lock braking system that is not operational. 12. If any of the vehicle’s airbags are missing or not operational. 13. If the vehicle requires repair to any of the following: a. Engine, transmission or power train. b. Subframe or suspension. c. Computer equipment. d. Electrical system. e. Fuel operation system. f. Air conditioning. 14. If the contract is for the sale or lease of a specifically identified new motor vehicle (e.g., VIN is known, in stock, etc.), the maximum distance that will be shown on the odometer at time of delivery. 15. If the contract does not specifically identify a new vehicle (e.g., a vehicle which must be located, VIN unknown), the maximum distance that will be shown on the odometer at the time of delivery or a statement initialed by the buyer that there is no maximum. 16. If the contract is for the sale or lease of a used vehicle: a. The total distance driven. b. If the dealer cannot determine the total distance the vehicle has been driven, but can determine a distance the vehicle has been driven as of some past date, that distance and date, together with a statement that “the total distance the vehicle has been driven is believed to be higher.” c. If the dealer is unable to make any type of determination as to total distance driven or as to distance driven from a past date, that “the total distance driven is unknown and may be substantially higher than the reading shown on the odometer.” 17. If the vehicle’s odometer is broken or faulty, has been replaced or rolled back, or is in miles. 18. If the vehicle is materially different from its original or advertised production specifications. 19. If the badge or any other indication on the vehicle relates to a different vehicle model. 20. If the vehicle was previously registered in a jurisdiction other than Ontario, and if so, a statement indicating which jurisdictions. This requirement does not apply if the vehicle has since been registered in Ontario for more than seven years. 21. If the vehicle was recovered subsequent to being reported stolen. 22. A statement of any other facts that could be expected to influence the decision of a reasonable buyer or lessee to purchase or lease the vehicle on the terms disclosed in the contract.
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Im on both sides of the fence on this one.
1) Them not returning your deposit after you changed your mind is kind of a dick move.
2) You signed a contract, reporting them to OMVIC for not returning your deposit is kind of a dick move.
Eat the $500 and move on, its really not fair of you to report a company for them doing nothing legally wrong, and quite frankly OMVIC having to investigate it is a waste of their time and money as well. They wont give your money back, you tried. They wont give you store credit, you tried. They have already suffered plenty of bad "press" from this thread, if it was about revenge you sure got it by now. (And no I don't think it is for you, but either way their reputation has suffered from this)
Time to move on.
1) Them not returning your deposit after you changed your mind is kind of a dick move.
2) You signed a contract, reporting them to OMVIC for not returning your deposit is kind of a dick move.
Eat the $500 and move on, its really not fair of you to report a company for them doing nothing legally wrong, and quite frankly OMVIC having to investigate it is a waste of their time and money as well. They wont give your money back, you tried. They wont give you store credit, you tried. They have already suffered plenty of bad "press" from this thread, if it was about revenge you sure got it by now. (And no I don't think it is for you, but either way their reputation has suffered from this)
Time to move on.
Again i think OMVIC would say it was a moot point as it was YOU who first signed the contract, then it was YOU who cancelled the contract. So their disclosures or lack thereof are not material for OMVIC to order the contract null and void. Given that they never "attempted" to deliver to you a vehicle othewr than what was on the contract. OMVIC will look at the contract ONLY as it is a written piece of evidence. Your word that the described vehicle was different has no substantive proof to it. Plus they will ask if the vehicle details were on the contract when you signed it then why didn't refuse to sign until it was made right??? Then the investigator, (if they are a good investigator), will ask themselves who has more to gain by us ordering the contract void and ordering repayment of the refund? In other words who has more motive to fib?? Well the dealership would make money on the transaction if the deal went thru. The complainant, (you), would lose his $500 if it didn't, PLUS you asked the dealership to cancel the contract, (Before you knew you would not be getting a refund), therefore, you stand to gain $500 the dealership stands to lose any profit, (if the deal was completed), plus loss of reputation. Chances are the ruling would not favor you.
OMVIC isn't supposed to "favour the customer" nor are they to favour the dealership they are supposed to conduct an investigation and issue a ruling based on their findings.
I agree with Marl.
You asked for a refund... It isn't happening.
You asked for a store credit... It isn't happening.
Time to file it under "lesson learned"
OMVIC isn't supposed to "favour the customer" nor are they to favour the dealership they are supposed to conduct an investigation and issue a ruling based on their findings.
I agree with Marl.
You asked for a refund... It isn't happening.
You asked for a store credit... It isn't happening.
Time to file it under "lesson learned"
Dresden
Well-known member
Oh come on!!! Now you decide to tell everyone this, after 11 pages?
I think this would change a lot and may be grounds to get your money back...
I'm not even sure what to believe anymore though..
Cliffs notes of 11 pages:
1) First OP asked how to bring down the price on a new bike (none of us knew till subsequent posts that he had already placed the deposit.
2) We all jumped on here and told OP to buy a used bike and save some money
3) Then OP sees that he made a less-than-desirable financial decision and decided to try and get the deposit back
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Then this turned into a 8 page Kahuna bashing thread/because because they "should do the right thing" - nevermind contract law, because that's just for "cold hearted people"
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Now OP decides to tell us that the original contract did not even have the right bike in it.
OP, I'm not hating on you, and I repeatedly said I hope you enjoy your purchase, even if it's a new bike!
I'm sure thebandit and Paul1000 will be calling me a cold-hearted *********. But this is exactly why I don't jump to conclusions - because we never have ALL the facts.
JCHC91
Well-known member
On the contrary, I believe I did mention it once on previous postings.
I had a feeling OMVIC wouldn't get involved as this case is a minor issue.
To be competely honest with you guys, the only reason I'm even still considering a refund is because one of the other salesman I was talking to in absence of the original mentioned a refund is almost positively ensured, quote "I know you'll get it back. 99.9%"
Guess the 0.01% kicked in.
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I had a feeling OMVIC wouldn't get involved as this case is a minor issue.
To be competely honest with you guys, the only reason I'm even still considering a refund is because one of the other salesman I was talking to in absence of the original mentioned a refund is almost positively ensured, quote "I know you'll get it back. 99.9%"
Guess the 0.01% kicked in.
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JCHC91
Well-known member
I have, but I think maybe that might be taking it too far. Then again I might be able to work out a better deal.... Or else.
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JCHC91
Well-known member
I figure now is the time more than ever to mention while pursuing an alternate ending to my contract cancelation, I had been actively looking for another bike.
Alas; meet my new mean b!tch.
For sure! I'm still a newbie so our skill level is probably... Noticeably and considerably different.
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Nice! Congrats! I ride a cruiser anyway so no worries about skill level, Im not what you would call a speed demon.
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