The "Official" Watch Thread and all Things Horological

[jc100]

I’m not sad for you for investing $20 bucks supporting an industry based on robbing designs from others and supporting patent infringement. I’m sad you went to a snooty festival and met a sleazy salesman and had determined he was sleazy because he noticed your watch . Lot of fakes may be hard to pick out in 15 second glance .
I think you could better pick your venues than snooty festivals if you have to invest leisure time .


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It was Toronto. I stumbled across this thing that turned out to be some kind of upper class pet show thing so I stayed for a bit? I thought the watch thing was amusing what can I say?

My leisure time is quite valuable these days so I don’t bother going to Toronto at all anymore.

That particular watch was a gift too so it cost me diddly squat.

 

[jc100]

I do actually appreciate the mechanics of an automatic watch but I got that out of my system with a Seiko 5 with a display back many many years ago. It’s a great watch but the thing is a pain in the ass to deal with and I have a thing about accurate timekeeping. My current favourite aside from the Garmin technobeast thing I have is a Citizen Blue Angels watch. As much as I admire a mechanical watch I kind of marvel at a device that requires no batteries, is accurate, sets itself to an atomic clock and looks good too.

 

[crankcall]

My wife has a garmin tech watch . It does all the outstanding stuff you expect , email, texts , heart rate and fitness tracking . She would wear nothing else unless it’s a formal dress up night . I’ve told her these days that may be new formal wear . I don’t own one because I don’t want to be that connected.

As an aside my buddy found out he had a heart condition which eventually required surgery because his watch notified him of his irregular heart beat .

My watch can tell time, accurate enough to make it to meetings on time . But I cook pizza using a Siri set timer .


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[backmarkerducati]

On that note, how are people storing their valuable watches? At a bank? In a safe? A good one or a fire safe? Locked or open? On your dresser/WIC? Not in a locked location but in an obscure location? Obviously not too many details should be shared.

I am keeping my eyes open for a proper safe for cheap (eg we want it out, you provide labour and a little money). Something like a TL-30 in the 800-1000 lb range. I picked up a few S&G code locks as I still haven't ruled out building one or more (or converting a dial to button for ease of access). Makes it easier to transport if I construct in place although then I would be welding inside my house.

When we were looking at houses, one had converted a bedroom into a WIC with a center island with a glass top and pull out watch/jewelry drawer. Over 100k in watches in the unlocked case not covered by cameras and the agent sat in the kitchen while we explored. I was shocked. When we were selling our house, I took everything stealable out as I knew agents would be useless wankers.

Another house for sale had pictures of the garage containing a gun safe. Wtf. Can you make it any easier to steal? Lots of room to put a vehicle in, close the door and take your time loading the safe in the vehicle. Open it later.

On a similar note, if anyone has a firesafe with valuable to them but useless to others stuff (like old pictures, documentation, etc), leave the key in it. It is both not that hard to get open and very easy to steal intact. Theives will take all of your precious possessions. If they open it and see a bunch of kids drawings, they may leave some of your precious to you stuff.

EDIT:
My inlaws inherited a fire safe. The bugger thing is a 24" cube with no lips or handles and a plug door and sits on a stand. They throw a tablecloth over it and use it as a side table. Unless you bump into it, it disappears into the old people aesthetic. With two or more people, stealing it wouldn't be too hard. With one person, it really sucks to move (and it has nothing valuable in it).

A friend bought an old house with a beautiful lacquered safe on wheels in the attic. Heavy as hell. Thieves could probably tumble it down the stairs to get it out. It would destroy parts of the house in the process (maybe even the first wall it encountered at the bottom of the attic stairs as it may just go straight through to the driveway like a wrecking ball).

Always a risk talking about this in a public forum... I store most offsite (safe deposit box) and rotate them. I also have an insurance rider to cover them.

I am shopping for an antique style "floor" safe that is not super crazy heavy, in the 300 lbs or less range, but someone would need to take offsite to force open. I plan to store some off cut 2X4s in it, maybe some air tags.

 

[jc100]

My wife has a garmin tech watch . It does all the outstanding stuff you expect , email, texts , heart rate and fitness tracking . She would wear nothing else unless it’s a formal dress up night . I’ve told her these days that may be new formal wear . I don’t own one because I don’t want to be that connected.

As an aside my buddy found out he had a heart condition which eventually required surgery because his watch notified him of his irregular heart beat .

My watch can tell time, accurate enough to make it to meetings on time . But I cook pizza using a Siri set timer .


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I’m with you there. I’ve found my stress level goes down considerably when I don’t have constant email alerts. I actually stopped my work email notifications so I save looking at the inbox until I’m ready to rather than being reactive to notifications and the change in my mood has been a revelation.

On holiday I usually take my watch off too. It’s a symbolic thing to remind myself I don’t need to do anything to any particular schedule and it works. I feel more relaxed.

 

[backmarkerducati]

I just liked the look and not the price. They both told the same time, actually, the fakes were more accurate.

You can get the "look" without the label on the watch from other quality brands (with very few exceptions) and at a much better quality for the price of a actually passable counterfeit. The entire I want the look (and the label) without the price is the same mindset albeit old timey as social media influences today (and why they do it as well). Anything counterfeit: bag, watch, clothing, whatever is greasy and scummy and a reflection on the persons integrity, specially when the style is legitimately sold by real brands for the same price. As for time keeping, mostly BS and one of the many scummy/greasy things counterfeit wearers say to themselves to try and "justify" counterfeits.

A certified chronometer mechanical watch (COSC) is in the range of -4s to +6s per day by spec (new master spec is even tighter yet). A decent regulated non certified mechanical watch is in the ±30s a day range. A quality quartz movement (maybe $20 CDN for the calibre) will be an order of magnitude (or two) better than certified chronometer (one of the reasons for the quartz crisis in the 70s).

A counterfeit watch using a quartz movement will not fool anyone for more than literally one second (seriously!), even by the naked eye, and is not "passable" by any standards. They may be more accurate than a regular mechanical, maybe even COSC but they are not using $20 calibres in $50 watches so it is hit and miss like a watch from Shoppers Drugmart (likely the same movement).... The next tier up will use a Chinese generic millionsmart or like mechanical movements, non regualted, typically off by minutes a day unless you are lucky but they do not scream counterfeit in one second (getting into the low $100s). The higher grade will use a ETA knockoff, other knockoff or like and MAY get into the ±30s if the manufacturer cared enough to adjust it, $500 and up range.

In summary:
Someone wants accuracy, get a quartz Timex, costs less than the passable counterfeits, will last longer, more accurate than a Rolex and they have some the same style BTW... a plus is it does not damage your brand but sorry no old timey social influencer cred. A counterfeit that is quartz is not passable by any means but may be more accurate. A mechanical counterfeit will in no way keep better time. Quartz counterfeits are for the highest ranking of fools, the mechanicals will not keep better time by design. Counterfeits feed orgnaized crime BTW, here and where they are made.

 

[jc100]

You can get the "look" without the label on the watch from other quality brands (with very few exceptions) and at a much better quality for the price of a actually passable counterfeit. The entire I want the look (and the label) without the price is the same mindset albeit old timey as social media influences today (and why they do it as well). Anything counterfeit: bag, watch, clothing, whatever is greasy and scummy and a reflection on the persons integrity, specially when the style is legitimately sold by real brands for the same price. As for time keeping, mostly BS and one of the many scummy/greasy things counterfeit wearers say to themselves to try and "justify" counterfeits.

A certified chronometer mechanical watch (COSC) is in the range of -4s to +6s per day by spec (new master spec is even tighter yet). A decent regulated non certified mechanical watch is in the ±30s a day range. A quality quartz movement (maybe $20 CDN for the calibre) will be an order of magnitude (or two) better than certified chronometer (one of the reasons for the quartz crisis in the 70s).

A counterfeit watches using a quartz movement will not fool anyone for more than literally one second (seriously!), even by the naked eye, and is not "passable" by any standards. They may be more accurate than a regular mechanical, maybe even COSC but they are not using $20 calibres in $50 watches so it is hit and miss like a watch from Shoppers Drugmart (likely the same movement).... The next tier up will use a Chinese generic millionsmart or like mechanical movements, non regualted, typically off by minutes a day unless you are lucky but they do not scream counterfeit in one second (getting into the low $100s). The higher grade will use a ETA knockoff, other knockoff or like and MAY get into the ±30s if the manufacturer cared enough to adjust it, $500 and up range.

In summary:
Someone wants accuracy, get a quartz Timex, costs less than the passable counterfeits, will last longer, more accurate than a Rolex and they have some the same style BTW... a plus is it does not damage your brand but sorry no old timey social influencer cred. A counterfeit that is quartz is not passable by any means but may be more accurate. A mechanical counterfeit will in no way keep better time. Quartz counterfeits are for the highest ranking of fools, the mechanicals will not keep better time by design.

You seem a bit worked up about the whole thing? I actually like to see how close the counterfeits can get to the real thing and it’s amazing how well they hold up. I find that’s really art too in a way no? The skill of the counterfeiter.

The alternate take is that a subset of people have been manipulated into overspending a small fortune on a mechanical device through highly efficient marketing that in the case of Omega isn’t even an item in limited supply and is effectively mass produced. That’s pretty greasy too but apparently effective.

 

[backmarkerducati]

You seem a bit worked up about the whole thing? I actually like to see how close the counterfeits can get to the real thing and it’s amazing how well they hold up. I find that’s really art too in a way no? The skill of the counterfeiter.

The alternate take is that a subset of people have been manipulated into overspending a small fortune on a mechanical device through highly efficient marketing that in the case of Omega isn’t even an item in limited supply and is effectively mass produced. That’s pretty greasy too but apparently effective.

Dude, counterfeiting is counterfeiting, it is illegal and run by organized crime. There is no "justification" or art form. "I want it but it costs too much" is not justification.

BTW, they counterfeit Swatches, Seikos, same people, Apple watches, cell phones, clothing, bags, sporting goods, safety equipment, whatever all at multiple price points (not just highend)....etc.. It is a big scumbag scammer thing to knowingly participate in at any level. It drives up the legit costs for everyone at every level it is not some victimless crime on big companies. Sadly some people get suckered in and ripped off others even more sadly knowingly participate.... integrity is low on the list for someone that has to have the label and knowledge participates.

Sorry, scammers are scumbags, I don't care what the scam is and at what price point.

 

[jc100]

Dude, counterfeiting is counterfeiting, it is illegal and run by organized crime. There is no "justification" or art form. "I want it but it costs too much" is not justification.

BTW, they counterfeit Swatches, Seikos, same people, Apple watches, cell phones, clothing, bags, sporting goods, safety equipment, whatever all at multiple price points (not just highend)....etc.. It is a big scumbag scammer thing to knowingly participate in at any level. It drives up the legit costs for everyone at every level it is not some victimless crime on big companies. Sadly some people get suckered in and ripped off others even more sadly knowingly participate.... integrity is low on the list for someone that has to have the label and knowledge participates.

Sorry, scammers are scumbags, I don't care what the scam is and at what price point.

I see you have strong views on preserving the fragile endangered creatures knows as Swiss millionaires and the customer base of the companies owned by those people as obviously people knowingly shopping for fakes/copies one day go out and buy Vasherin Constantin by the boatload the next day.

Relax, for a very few watches I like the dial and couldn’t actually care about what’s inside, I’m glad you do.

 

[killvino]

maybe I'm the minority but I also look at watches based on value/future pricing.
Learned this the hard way from my wife regarding luxury goods (purses).
All of my 'real' watches I've picked because I like the look and functions but also because of the price I got it for.
I can sell all of them for same price now and some significantly more (200%+).

this would not happen with fakes or fashion/everyday quartz watches and especially smart watches.

regarding storage, I have most of my watches in my gun safe bolted into the concrete basement floor and wall joints. Next house, will probably just create a safe/vault room/closet to include my wife's items. Biggest thing is insurance on them and all of our higher cost items in the house. When I am away for a long period (vacation, etc.) they go to a family member or friend.

 

[crankcall]

We have a safe , it alarmed , the house is alarmed , we are insured.
I been robbed twice , house burgled in Campbellville , cash, some jewelry and booze , Milton house , cleaned about 5k in power tools out of the garage .
We now have watch/jewelry/ passports in an alarmed safe . Gun vault alarmed and bolted to office wall . House alarmed and insured .
If they want in bad enough , they will figure out how to get it . We hope by making it inconvenient enough they won’t try.


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[jc100]

We have a safe , it alarmed , the house is alarmed , we are insured.
I been robbed twice , house burgled in Campbellville , cash, some jewelry and booze , Milton house , cleaned about 5k in power tools out of the garage .
We now have watch/jewelry/ passports in an alarmed safe . Gun vault alarmed and bolted to office wall . House alarmed and insured .
If they want in bad enough , they will figure out how to get it . We hope by making it inconvenient enough they won’t try.


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Compared to back in the UK Canada is so peaceful. Family home in UK burgled twice, once when my mum was inside. My university place robbed but I lived on the top floor and the burglars were lazy and stopped at the floor below. The students on the ground floor were held up by gunpoint a bit before the burglary.

I like Canada.

 

[backmarkerducati]

I see you have strong views on preserving the fragile endangered creatures knows as Swiss millionaires and the customer base of the companies owned by those people as obviously people knowingly shopping for fakes/copies one day go out and buy Vasherin Constantin by the boatload the next day.

Relax, for a very few watches I like the dial and couldn’t actually care about what’s inside, I’m glad you do.

Ok there Robinhood. Taking the VC as an example, the problem is they sell fake VCs with boxes and papers so they find their way into the market, both by the greasy people that knowingly buy them but also now they go into the market scamming people. But OK you're Robinhood so...

Other brands all the way down the chain have this happen. Even if they ONLY sold them to people knowingly they filter into the used markets to rip regular people off. The same thing happens with down market items like Swatch, and Seiko. Same for microbrands. Counterfeits with boxes and papers for no other purpose but to scam everyday people. In the end the big problem I have is not the big companies profits but the scamming of everyday people and anyone that supports scamming.

AGAIN, same things happens to all kinds of industries, did you know they sell counterfeit firearms and gun parts? Maybe you do know that and are totally cool with that....IDK.

FAKE!

www.nramuseum.org

Sorry, if you came here hoping for a pat on the back for your counterfeit watch CSB. YOU pointed out you buy counterfeits, I guess we assume everything else you own is counterfeit? BTW $50 counterfeits are not passable and that "greasy sales guy" was likely not shocked instead judging....

 

[crankcall]

We have a safe , it alarmed , the house is alarmed , we are insured.
I been robbed twice , house burgled in Campbellville , cash, some jewelry and booze , Milton house , cleaned about 5k in power tools out of the garage .
We now have watch/jewelry/ passports in an alarmed safe . Gun vault alarmed and bolted to office wall . House alarmed and insured .
If they want in bad enough , they will figure out how to get it . We hope by making it inconvenient enough they won’t try.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

 

[jc100]

Edit: double post..happening a lot today.

 

[jc100]

Ok there Robinhood. Taking the VC as an example, the problem is they sell fake VCs with boxes and papers so they find their way into the market, both by the greasy people that knowingly buy them but also now they go into the market scamming people. But OK you're Robinhood so...

Other brands all the way down the chain have this happen. Even if they ONLY sold them to people knowingly they filter into the used markets to rip regular people off. The same thing happens with down market items like Swatch, and Seiko. Same for microbrands. Counterfeits with boxes and papers for no other purpose but to scam everyday people. In the end the big problem I have is not the big companies profits but the scamming of everyday people and anyone that supports scamming.

AGAIN, same things happens to all kinds of industries, did you know they sell counterfeit firearms and gun parts? Maybe you do know that and are totally cool with that....IDK.

FAKE!

www.nramuseum.org

Sorry, if you came here hoping for a pat on the back for your counterfeit watch CSB. YOU pointed out you buy counterfeits, I guess we assume everything else you own is counterfeit? BTW $50 counterfeits are not passable and that "greasy sales guy" was likely not shocked instead judging....

You’re awfully touchy. I’m getting the same kind of vibes as the gay marriage thing annoying some because they think it devalues their own marriage.

Get a grip man, it’s jewelry, it looks shiny on your wrist.

Ok there Robinhood. Taking the VC as an example, the problem is they sell fake VCs with boxes and papers so they find their way into the market, both by the greasy people that knowingly buy them but also now they go into the market scamming people. But OK you're Robinhood so...

Other brands all the way down the chain have this happen. Even if they ONLY sold them to people knowingly they filter into the used markets to rip regular people off. The same thing happens with down market items like Swatch, and Seiko. Same for microbrands. Counterfeits with boxes and papers for no other purpose but to scam everyday people. In the end the big problem I have is not the big companies profits but the scamming of everyday people and anyone that supports scamming.

AGAIN, same things happens to all kinds of industries, did you know they sell counterfeit firearms and gun parts? Maybe you do know that and are totally cool with that....IDK.

FAKE!

www.nramuseum.org

Sorry, if you came here hoping for a pat on the back for your counterfeit watch CSB. YOU pointed out you buy counterfeits, I guess we assume everything else you own is counterfeit? BTW $50 counterfeits are not passable and that "greasy sales guy" was likely not shocked instead judging....

As for guns and gun parts, the Turkish have cloned most popular firearms. The function is identical to the original, the fit and finish is often a bit off. I have examples of both but then I know what I’m getting into.

As for counterfeits knowingly being sold as the real thing, I agree with you. That’s scummy behaviour but that’s not what I’ve experienced myself. Someone by the side of the road with a case full of merchandise isn’t likely to be carrying $50k worth of gear in my experience.

 

[backmarkerducati]

You’re awfully touchy. I’m getting the same kind of vibes as the gay marriage thing annoying some because they think it devalues their own marriage.

Get a grip man, it’s jewelry, it looks shiny on your wrist.


As for guns and gun parts, the Turkish have cloned most popular firearms. The function is identical to the original, the fit and finish is often a bit off. I have examples of both but then I know what I’m getting into.

As for counterfeits knowingly being sold as the real thing, I agree with you. That’s scummy behaviour but that’s not what I’ve experienced myself. Someone by the side of the road with a case full of merchandise isn’t likely to be carrying $50k worth of gear in my experience.

How is your fake/replica/counterfeit Beretta 1301 comp working out? Does it even shoot?

 

[jc100]

How is your fake/replica/counterfeit Beretta 1301 comp working out? Does it even shoot?

I wouldn’t buy a fake Beretta as it needs to function smoothly and correctly under high heat and pressure conditions with lots of metal on metal moving parts. A watch needs to tell the time. Next false equivalency?

 

[xfactor]

I look at Luxury watches this way: I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but f it.
Primarily, It's another way of storing value for long term growth while I get to enjoy something I like. Secondarily, it tells a certain story and projects a certain image (just like anything else we have and do).

As a value based investor, I can ask, what's the intrinsic value of a watch? Material + labour at the very bottom and marketing and sales as the additives. So, if that's the valuation calculus, then obviously we can't see any movement of any watch exceeding $5,000 unless we are talking about exotic minerals and such. So, why pay $65,000 for a rose gold Rolex Sky Dweller? hmmm.

Well, supply and demand my good man. Through, hook or crook they have established a brand recognition and it's not that you're wearing a watch that tells time, you're wearing a Rolex which have anointed the wearer with certain privileges and an image. So, yea, the valuation come from the adherence to that brand which you identify as something that is well crafted, has longevity, can be sold or pawned off in bad times, and rare, plus much more. These are the reasons to buy anything. So, if buying a Rolex gives me capital growth while I get to enjoy it, seems like it's too good to be true, but it's not.
Rolex watches rose in value more than stocks or gold over the past decade

I agree to a point with JC100 (Jesus?), yea we have all been swindled by business that's abhorrently elevated prices for just having a brand and riding the wave of some old time pedigree. If everyone decides that Rolex is useless and stop buying it, the value of Rolex is just as another Grand Seiko or worse. But, I think you know that's not going to happen, and even if Omega is producing .5 Million watches per year, so what? 8 Billion people, right? That still leaves the 80 Million 1%rs to fight over those half a million Omegas per year.

The price we pay is for the image or the stories that we weave. So to the point that counterfeiting is purely a technical problem and if the original piece and the counterfeit pieces is factory identical, are we being swindled by the original brand owner? To me, it's a no; cause I'm not just paying for the quality of the movement and the rarity and the polish of the metal. I'm paying for much more, I'm paying for something that defines me and add to that the power and the story of a brand and it's goodwill value.

Even a counterfeit that's 100% identical is still a counterfeit cause it's a faking something that it's not, and that's a story that I don't want to tell.

 

[ToSlow]

Looking at the omega and Rolex in Vegas, no way in hell would I spend that kinda money on a watch. Even if i could afford it