The Childfree Movement

My wife and i just had a baby and he is AWESOME!!!

Our thinking was that we are successful, good looking and intelligent. Don't have a a baby unless you possess all those traits... seriously don't...
 
I now have to get those stupid stick figure stickers for my bike.

I have a kid, and if I had to choose between being a dad and not being a dad, dad wins every time. Unfortunately, it's not until you have kids that you can truely know if you want them or not. At which point, either you're unhappy or the kid is, and generally speaking, it's the kid that suffers.
 
Wanting a kid so someone will look after you and/or keep you company when you are old is selfish, 100%. You can not say "it is a fair trade" An unselfish act is one where you knowingly do something where you will receive no benefit, simple. Having a kid because you want to make a mini you, or continue your genes as it were, or to raise a person who shares your values and interest perhaps, is an act of vanity. Neither of these things are wrong or bad. It is normal human nature and we all are self serving and vain at times. It could be argued that a small dose of each is part of our survival. The good news is that when you have a kid, it is not all sunshine and roses and they generally force you to live a selfless life to a large degree. So when parents go on and on about how can you non parents be so selfish and not share your lives, it is because they in fact are very likely living a selfless existence and the insurmountable love they feel for these little beings that they brought into the world makes them know it is completely worth while.
I think that the people who know how hard and how draining being a parent is before they decide to get pregnant are in fact having kids for unselfish reasons. I am not one of those. I do not see how it is possible to know how hard being a parent is unless you experience it first hand. But what do I know? A lot of people are far more realistic than me.
 
Ya, I don't think so. So what, in your opinion, are the two most defining features of a man????

And "cognitive" is not correct for sure in this statement even if you are just guessing. Depression is a chemical imbalance whether that chemical imbalance is due to environmental factors, genetic predisposition or a traumatic life event. A chemical imbalance occurs. It has nothing to do with cognition.

Also, I do believe women getting "pissy" when they grow old and are childless is the result of a chemical imbalance as well.
Asking me what the defining features of a man are, is irrelevant.

There's actually more evidence of depression being a cognitive problem. The TRUE chemical imbalances are very extreme cases. If you knew anything about psych, you'd see that medication has a higher relapse rate into depression than cognitive restructuring or behavioural therapy. Toronto has some of the best mental health clinic experts (read: some of the highest success rates in the world) and what do you think they stress more, cognitive therapy or medication? The former.

But more importantly, the fact that you would even claim that "[depression] has nothing to do with cognition" makes me wonder if you have any idea what you're talking about. Across cultures & societies, women have higher depression rates so there are a plethora of studies on the causes of depression (especially in relation to menopause).

If you look at racism on the other hand, the root of it is fear. Fear of what you might ask? Fear that those different looking people are going to harm you and your family thus interfering with your imperative to procreate and keep on living. Like I posted earlier, if you really think about it, the root cause for a lot of human behaviour stems from our natural programming to reproduce.
That's exactly my point, though: since we're long past the point of following biological imperatives, it makes it hard to discern whether they're bitter because they haven't lived up to societies expectations or because some sort of biological reminder goes off. Case in point: there are plenty of old, childless couples who are perfectly happy.

something an ******* would say.

Its pretty disgusting the amount of twisting of the word "selfish" that is going on.

The fact that there is a bunch of jackholes that think that just because someone may conceivably benefit ( even if in a totally tangent or remote way), that makes the action "selfish" is just the words of a bunch of miserable creatures that have never given any sort of genuine sacrifice and like to tear down those that have.

Mother Theresa isn't selfish because her life's work and devotion probably gave her a sense of satisfaction.

Grow the **** up
I think the only reason you find it so repulsive is because we've made being selfish taboo. We've perverted the word over the years. But I think it's a very accurate description once you can get over that. People calling Mother Theresa selfish aren't taking away from what she did (at least I don't, when I say it) - they're calling a spade, a spade. I highly doubt she'd devote her life to helping people if she didn't get some sort of satisfaction out of it.

The same can be said about the father who kills himself working overtime to support his family. You think it isn't worth it to him? If it wasn't, he wouldn't be doing it (ie the dad that left his family to go hide in Philippines/avoid child support). The only difference is that we find one to be noble, and the other reprehensible. But they're both selfish at the core.

Look at the word neutrally.
 
Asking me what the defining features of a man are, is irrelevant.

There's actually more evidence of depression being a cognitive problem. The TRUE chemical imbalances are very extreme cases. If you knew anything about psych, you'd see that medication has a higher relapse rate into depression than cognitive restructuring or behavioural therapy. Toronto has some of the best mental health clinic experts (read: some of the highest success rates in the world) and what do you think they stress more, cognitive therapy or medication? The former.

But more importantly, the fact that you would even claim that "[depression] has nothing to do with cognition" makes me wonder if you have any idea what you're talking about. Across cultures & societies, women have higher depression rates so there are a plethora of studies on the causes of depression (especially in relation to menopause).


That's exactly my point, though: since we're long past the point of following biological imperatives, it makes it hard to discern whether they're bitter because they haven't lived up to societies expectations or because some sort of biological reminder goes off. Case in point: there are plenty of old, childless couples who are perfectly happy.


I think the only reason you find it so repulsive is because we've made being selfish taboo. We've perverted the word over the years. But I think it's a very accurate description once you can get over that. People calling Mother Theresa selfish aren't taking away from what she did (at least I don't, when I say it) - they're calling a spade, a spade. I highly doubt she'd devote her life to helping people if she didn't get some sort of satisfaction out of it.

The same can be said about the father who kills himself working overtime to support his family. You think it isn't worth it to him? If it wasn't, he wouldn't be doing it (ie the dad that left his family to go hide in Philippines/avoid child support). The only difference is that we find one to be noble, and the other reprehensible. But they're both selfish at the core.

Look at the word neutrally.

Edit; No, it is totally relevant! That statement in and of itself makes you sexist and bias. What is the basis for this statement? How about I say the two main defining features of a man are the length of his junk and the size of his pocket book? SOMETHING tells me you won't agree with that. Perhaps I should just respond with "that is irrelevant"...ffs! Run for office already :angry1:

First, total cop out. That won't fly. You clearly have no source and have pulled this from your ***. Women's two most defining features are not "child birth and sex". Just what are you thinking with this crap? Hence my question about what your almighty omnipotence might define a males two "most defining features". Please, on this 95% male forum, grace us with your insight :rolleyes:

Second point...nice try, fail again.
I know a lot about psych and I call your bluff that in fact you know exactly what you read on line. Is there a cure for cancer? No. The simple answer is no. The same goes for chemical imbalances in people. The reason they recommend cognitive therapy over medication is because all people react differently to medication. If the mind can be trained to manage the chemical imbalance, as long as it is within acceptable societal parameters...ie; not schizophrenia or worse, then the end result is more predictable. Such can not be said for medications for such imbalances. Creating selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (to name one!) that works uniformly is not an exact science...go figure.

Further....do you even know the definition of the word cognitive? My guess would be no. While "cognition" is 100% affected by depression, cognition disorders are not in general a cause of common depression (in other words yeah, people who can't think good get sad about it) and are completely unrelated to general "depression". I have no idea where you got your information from but your "knowledge" is superiorly lacking.
 
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Look at the word neutrally.

No. its a negative word, you are the one trying to pretend it isn't. Tell 1000 people that Mother Theresa is selfish and see what you get back. Sorry, you don't get to make up your own meanings of words.

being selfish is about putting yourself ABOVE the well being of others. That is its dictionary definition. You are trying to place every act in the "selfish" category simply because the doer derives some non-tangible benefit, that is just ridiculous.

3 people died in Colorado just recently shielding their girlfriends from bullets with their bodies, others stayed to help the wounded and saved lives. would you go to their funerals and call them selfish?

BTW. expecting something back doesn't make something selfish either.
If I lend money out to someone, I expect to be paid back, that doesn't make it not a favour.
 
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Jesus Murphy. No one would be motivated to do *anything* unless there is personal motivation or gratification involved. Even if there is not immediate material return there is still that warm squishy feeling inside one gets from doing something for someone else. If we were to label all these acts 'selfish' then the word would lose all meaning.

Being selfish is being consistently unable to look past your immediate personal considerations and taking others into account.
 
I even Copied the dictionary definition a few pages earlier.......I guess some dont like the actual definition.
 
I now have to get those stupid stick figure stickers for my bike.

Like this? ;)

bikekids.jpg
 
My wife told me this weekend that she wanted to get those stick figures for her car. I told her straight up that if she put those on, I would NEVER drive her car. Since she won't drive long distances she won't put them on now. Lol.
 
Can I just add a little fuel to the fire at this point and say that Mother Theresa was no saint at all and in fact some of the things she did could be construed as downright evil.

Carry on.
 
Can I just add a little fuel to the fire at this point and say that Mother Theresa was no saint at all and in fact some of the things she did could be construed as downright evil.

Carry on.

Please site your examples of her being evil.
 
Nice book review of a Hitchins book.. http://www.population-security.org/swom-96-09.htm

This is not the only source.

Wow...the woman dedicated her life helping people you and I wouldn't stop to spit on, and this is how she was repaid? What I find hilarious, are these "accusations" came out after her death. If this was all true someone should of had the guts and evidence to take her on alive, instead of making a buck on destroying her reputation after she died.
 
All I can say is that we didn't have a choice whether or not to have kids until very recently in human history.

family_decals.jpg
 
That's exactly my point, though: since we're long past the point of following biological imperatives, it makes it hard to discern whether they're bitter because they haven't lived up to societies expectations or because some sort of biological reminder goes off. Case in point: there are plenty of old, childless couples who are perfectly happy.
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I respectfully disagree with your point. Human beings are not long past biological imperatives. The imperative exists and will continue to exist regardless of whether we follow it or not. What you are insinuating is that we have evolved past the point of our calling to procreate and that is totally ridiculous. My point is very much contrary to what you are saying because I believe that this calling to procreate triggers a lot of behavioural tendencies that you seem to think are 'other' imperatives when really they are not. Procreation is part of the cycle of life and will always be.

This does not apply 100% of the time, there are always outliers and in this case a small percentage of the global population that will not procreate - whether it is by choice or because they cannot.

You can credit intelligence and human sophistication for this "Childree Movement" but it would be very easy to argue that this is just darwinism at work. Like I've already posted, I support personal choice 100% to do whatever you want but to ignore human history, our biology, the importance of reproduction and cycle of life is just ridiculous.
 
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