The Childfree Movement
- Thread starter Jinster81
- Start date
A lot of people being overly defensive over what is, ultimately, a lifestyle choice. Yeah, I understand that those who choose not have kids get lots of questions from other people about it. I wouldn't get your backs up over it - it's probably just a conversation topic, and not so much that they're overly concerned with your personal life.
I admit that I *really* want to have kids, and will do so hopefully in the near future. It becomes much more calculated and costly when you're in a same-sex marriage for obvious reasons. It also grinds my gears when many people carelessly have unwanted, unplanned children when there are those out there who have to strive to make it happen.
I admit that I *really* want to have kids, and will do so hopefully in the near future. It becomes much more calculated and costly when you're in a same-sex marriage for obvious reasons. It also grinds my gears when many people carelessly have unwanted, unplanned children when there are those out there who have to strive to make it happen.
RC8BOY
Well-known member
How do you live with such a bleak outlook on life. Just reading your post makes me want to drink!
awyala
Guest
Not to sound doom and gloom but you're right.
One country cannot impose child limitations on another. Hell, even the Americans chastise and mock the Chinese for their own self imposed 1 child law! America should be praising them for not unleashing Gog and Magog! Hehehe (have fun researching that reference). But in all seriousness, replacing one nation's own child stock with adult immigrants will result in reverse cultural domination and a massive demograhic shift. The sad reality is, self imposed (main stream) procreation limitation will, yes, keep the slice of pie big for all those in lets say Canada...however all those with smaller slices of the pie, constantly being bombarded with Western media promoting that lifestyle, will either a) invade and take your resources, b) migrant invasion or c) rise to power on their own.
All forms are dangerous for this society and possible quite inevitable.
Scenario a) (the most doom and gloom)...but also the very thing that Europe did to much of the world. Rapid expansion and desire for resources conquered and taken from those who were too weak or termed "savage" to defend. Not unrealistic.
Scenario b) migrant invasion, again not unrealistic, similar to the Turkic take over of the Arab world from pretty much 1100 to 1918. Conquest through incorporation (possible the best possible scenario). Expect the West to change dramatically while still retaining some key features. But "Westerners" may cease to be the elite in this society, they may simply share in a portion of it.
Scenario c) (currently underway) A massive geo political power shift. Whether or not India, China or Russia ever go to out right war with the West is not really the issue. Their mere rise through economic might and a series of small scale proxy wars (Syria for example), will be enough to radically limit Western resources and life styles. The global pie will be shared, whether you like it or not. Their populations will spread (peacefully) to less dense areas and they will dominate in business and culture...all rather peacefully. And because we love our material society so much, guess what, we will be taking loans from them to pay for the things we want, and in the end we will become their economic slaves. This was successfully achieved by Britain conquering the Ottoman Empire nearly 200 years in advance of the military invasion in 1914. The British conquered the Ottomans through a death of a thousand cuts, and primarily through loans and economic manipulation.
If you think capping your reproduction and spending / borrowing money to fund a lavish lifestyle is doing the world any good, well yes on average it is, you are paving the way for the less fortunate masses to have their turn at the helm. The very idea to reduce reproduction to have a materialistic lifestyle is the sign of the end of a given society. And it may be unstoppable. The Indians don't care to limit their reproduction, nor do the Chinese really (this is only temporary until they can secure more resources), and the more the West takes pot shots at them for being in humane, the more this will bite the West in the face when they turn around, launch an invasion and allow unlimited Chinese reproduction.
India is a mess, with incredibly high mortality rates, even if they cut their reproduction, as they advance and as health advances, even a cut birth rate will result in net growth. India and China is not Africa, their numbers cannot be held in check with disease, tribal wars, and economic oppression. And when China and India begin to use Africa as it's sweatshop to manufacture cheap goods for Easten consumption, so too will Africa begin to rise through trickle down economics that saw China and the Tigers rise. Soon African numbers will rise. And guess who will be too weak, too few, and with too ugly a history to resist Eastern conquest of the West?
For that matter, there are Western leaders of industry that will long have abandoned ship and migrated their business to the East. The rich 1% in the West wont stick around, they will be a portion of the rich 1% in the East too, at least some of them. Look for Western names popping up in Eastern businesses. Then you will see the West is done.
Giving up production, instead choosing indulgence over productivity.....all the while the other side of the world is working their assess off and multiplying at an incredible rate...well that is a recipe for a society's fall.
And the US has already screwed it up, by critising China for it's procreation policies, the US and the West can no longer demand that of any other nation nor itself. Merely it will have to buy out every citizen with the dream of material goods, by promoting a "selfish" lifestyle. By convincing it's population that a luxury car consumes less of your income than a child, by convincing their people that boasting of your M series BMW is more respected than raising a good child, by doing this the society will prize the appearance of success over the tools to achieve success. Meanwhile China will indoctrinate their people to prize hard work and sacrifice to achieve success over the outward symbols of it. Every society rises and falls on this basis, so they too will fall, but they will also have their turn on the top.
America rose to power through isolationism, galvanizing the family unit, hard industrious work, innovation, and prior to that during their ugly phase, the exploitation of others. Someone has to ultimately sacrifice, whether it be an oppressed slave class, a class of people robbed of their resources, or the individual making a sacrifice for the whole of one's society (on a mass scale).
The Childfree movement is a weakness, clinging to scarce resources because as a society we can no longer afford 3 kids, a nice car and a big suburban house on 1 man's salary. Now you need 2 salaries, and you get a cramped condo and a scooter. The option to downsize scares some of you, clearly. You are addicted to this material life, and you will sacrifice your children to hold onto it. You will take loans to keep it, loans from your sworn enemies. You will ignore all these things, when you strut and showboat your material property in the face of other members of your society and even your enemies who you borrowed the money from. You will, to feel good about yourself, prize the trait of "selfishness", proudly boasting of it, and entice others to join your "movement". Your rivals and enemy however is not doing the same...you rival will call in the loan, and send out their armies, of pent up frustrated angry men with 5 kids to feed back home being bombarded by Holywood movies of a dream lifestyle.
These other cultures make the very things you prize and lend you money to become addicted to them, from your iPhones to your Beamers, to your Porsches to your designer clothes and so on.
So why again is it better to have fewer kids to maintain a (globally) excessive lifestyle?
I can understand if you chose to scale back consumption....by not having a child and not having a car...to be a global eco-moral-shining example for all the world to appreciate your foresight, leadership and humble attitude; to stave off a rising aggressive China by demonstrating that we should all limit our consumption, that America will lead by reducing its footprint, lifestyle and thus sharing it with the world. Sure that would be noble. But that is not what the Childfree movement is about, the Childfree movement is a weakness, and an addiction to consumption and to maintain one's own high levels of consumption they will block another (their own kin's) mouth from eating, from taking away from their own plate! Not because there isnt enough to share, but because they don't want to reduce their lavish lifestyle by even a downgrading in status of car!!!! I respect a hipster parent who bikes across town with their child in tow, living in a split (maisonette) Victorian home...but I can't say the same for the Childfree movement bragging about their high consumption levels.
PS, Chinese and Indians prefer boys, often aborting girls (yet another luxury the West has morally condoned and is biting them in the *** - I am referring to the recent controversy over allowing Asian parents to know the sex of their child at 16 weeks in Ontario). This male preference skews demographics to a male majority. And a male majority means aggression, too many men competing for too few women in 20 years time. This means male aggression is vented through competition. Global. Male armies out to seek their share of the good life! Any population with a male majority means an increase in violence, risk taking, and higher male mortality. China will direct this outward in the form of an Army and when they smell a weakness in Western battles via the proxy war tests, that Chinese army will one day begin to flex, as will an Indian army. America will undoubtedly attempt to pit India against China while also creating a war zone buffer between China and Mid East resources, but if India doesn't rise fast enough to form a sufficient bullwark, or if Russia sways the power by siding with China (as they are doing), this last ditch ploy by the West to form an Anglo alliance with Indian cannon / nuclear fodder wont work. India may elect to stay neutral and pick up the pieces.
This Childfree movement is symptom of a much larger unstoppable process.
And as I have said, the odd individual here and there that elects not to have children...no big deal, that's fine. But if you seriously contend that this should be a mainstream movement in support of a material life....that is an ominous sign.
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awyala
Guest
There is an expensive difficult way...or there is an easy way.
Pray tell, what's the easy way?
awyala
Guest
The non-institutional way. The natural way. If that option isn't available then one must rely on regulated institutional processes to acquire a child.
Everyone strives to have a child as you put it. The unplanned part is not the striving part...the raising is the striving part. The act of procreating itself is made addictively easy for a reason. Same sex couplings or not, the striving is not related to the biological process itself.
And where someone is infertile, there is additional strife, granted, but when that isn't an issue, why complicate it?
killerkeith
Well-known member
A half dozen Plowman's Ales, and asking for a volunteer.
I know...what's so hard about lying on your back for 30 seconds?
It *is* complicated, whether you think so or not. The very method of having such child creates a million issues that can arise....I realize that the biological process is simple, but these days the legal issues are complicated....
A half dozen Plowman's Ales, and asking for a volunteer.
I've had plenty of volunteers. But I won't take any of them up. I want the process to be as anonymous as possible - no personal complications.
I figured as much, but I couldn't resist mentioning Plowman's Ale.
And you make a lousy straight man.........er, woman............ah, you get the picture.
LOL. I'm lousy with most straight applications........
Red_Liner740
Well-known member
I like reading your posts, but can we please not paint the no-child choice as merely a way to enjoy the materialistic life and nothing else. Its not black and white like that....
awyala
Guest
No no please don't get me wrong. The choice is fine. No problem with that. The problem occurs when a movement begins to develop that prioritizes lifestyle / class / materialistic priorities over production and human procreation.
As I have said, a successful stable society can absorb a quantity of fringe behaviours, even counter productive ones like welfare leaches or credit card fraudsters, or under the table workers. The problem is when any of these societal behaviours becomes mainstream or acceptable as attractive. As long as they remain fringe and in no great numbers it is all good, well, tolerable at the very least. Even openly admitting one is too selfish for children is fine, but don't glorify being selfish, admission is different from boastful pride. Even so, a portion of society can be selfish and society will still plod along.
That being said, there are some serious decadent trends in society currently, that will lead to an undesirable outcome a few generations down the line. And I believe that is the theme that has kicked off another thread so I'll stop harking back to that line of thinking in this thread at this point.
PS I didn't mean to paint it as black and white, I was largely responding to a passive aggressive post by another poster who painted the picture of having a family as some dark obese slovenly life sapping reward-less lifestyle compared to his sailing, hot sexing, luxury car cruising, travelling brag fest. Presenting marriage and children in that kind of light is unjust, where as you rightly point out things are not black and white. None of those luxuries in life are bad, but the real honour comes in achieving them AFTER taking care of priorities in life.
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Just like to say thank you to the breeders who brought their screaming brats to the restaurant I had breakfast in this morning. The little girls high pitched scream was particularly effective in ruining the experience for me. I would also like to applaud your ability to ignore the death like stares from everyone else trying to eat as your little shitrats fought and cried the entire time. Well done. You really took care of the priorities in life and I applaud you.
Hope to see you again and hope you are sitting right behind me on my next eight hour flight.
Hope to see you again and hope you are sitting right behind me on my next eight hour flight.
awyala
Guest
Just like to say thank you to the breeders who brought their screaming brats to the restaurant I had breakfast in this morning. The little girls high pitched scream was particularly effective in ruining the experience for me. I would also like to applaud your ability to ignore the death like stares from everyone else trying to eat as your little shitrats fought and cried the entire time. Well done. You really took care of the priorities in life and I applaud you.
Hope to see you again and hope you are sitting right behind me on my next eight hour flight.
Can you do any better?
It appears you have a penchant for death rather than life, with the fascination for assualt rifles and the crusade and all. Death or trolling, one of those.
Ahhh the fear of a Liberal.....
Actually it's both my job and a past time. Although I don't kill anything other than paper when it comes to the latter.
Didn't know I wasn't allowed to like something, outside of ****** diapers and spoiled brats throwing pissy fits in a mall when they can't have everything they want.
Speaking of crusaders......It also appears you have a penchant for this thread and feel everything posted here is directly addressed to you.
I assure you, in my case anyway, it isn't.
Actually it's both my job and a past time. Although I don't kill anything other than paper when it comes to the latter.
Didn't know I wasn't allowed to like something, outside of ****** diapers and spoiled brats throwing pissy fits in a mall when they can't have everything they want.
Speaking of crusaders......It also appears you have a penchant for this thread and feel everything posted here is directly addressed to you.
I assure you, in my case anyway, it isn't.
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Gixxer6
Well-known member
Just like to say thank you to the breeders who brought their screaming brats to the restaurant I had breakfast in this morning. The little girls high pitched scream was particularly effective in ruining the experience for me. I would also like to applaud your ability to ignore the death like stares from everyone else trying to eat as your little shitrats fought and cried the entire time. Well done. You really took care of the priorities in life and I applaud you.
Hope to see you again and hope you are sitting right behind me on my next eight hour flight.
I guess we can assume that your parents left you at home when they went out for food or gagged and muzzled you to prevent others from being perturbed by your uncontrollable screams, as you appear to be a bit of a complainer. In any event it seems that they did an excellent job at raising a well adjusted young man who is unaware or incapable of realizing that Saturday and Sunday mornings are typically times for families to go out for breakfast.
I will however apologize on the behalf of other parents as I personally would have taken my child out of the restaurant to calm him/her down. I am sure that as a mature adult you approached the parents calmly and asked them to do the same.
I assume that you are in the military or some such thing as you told AWYALA that you use assault rifles for a living. If you are a member of the military what exactly do you think you are fighting/serving for, if not the people (ie families)?
Is that the one for the fancy cars, boats and all? High ranking officer?
As I got in my M3 the other day to try out my latest unnecessary and extremely expensive modification I thought to myself, self, I wish instead of this awesome but impractical sports car I had a minivan so I could spend money on putting stick figure characters, DVD players and child seats in it instead.
As I drove over to the dock to check up on my 32 foot Donzi that was being detailed and filled with premium, as I upgraded the two already massive high HP engines to even bigger ones I thought to myself, self, look at that fat balding guy with the screaming kids arguing with his equally fat wife about the price of a rental boat. I wish I could let myself go like that and not worry about image and expensive clothes. The freedom of wearing ill fitting Walmart wear that is child vomit resistant seems so easy. Buy a general size, throw it on, done. No need to worry about current styles. I also wished I had a wife like that with a strong opinion of everything I want to spend my money on who also didn't care how she looked.
Later on that day as I was pounding $5 a pop .338 Lapua Magnum rounds down range one after the other like they were going out of style I started thinking, what if instead of this really expensive high power rifle with it's equally expensive scope that I bought one day on a whim I had a room full of musical instruments and sports equipment that were used for a week then discarded by my children who don't understand what money is but want want want and cry cry cry for every trend they (or their friends) encounter. Wouldn't that be grand?
Later on that evening as my GF and I were going at it on the couch, stairs, kitchen table, pretty much every room of the house I thought to myself, self, this takes a lot of effort. I wish instead of this any place any time rodeo sex we have I could instead just climb on my wife after the kids were asleep and slowly, quietly have sex in the dark in her smashed out kid cannon. I mean, at least it would only be a few nights a month and the same thing so there would be no effort on my part at all.
Yes, every time we are sitting around at work talking about the exotic countries we visited and the amazing things we have done whilst on vacation I am always secretly jealous of three times divorced guy who came back to Canada and sat in his small appt. watching hockey and drinking cheap beer instead. Such simplicity. Always knowing exactly what is going to happen day after day.
So, don't call me selfish. In reality I want what you have married people. I just never got that far in life and I'm miserable. Crying myself to sleep on my bed made of money. I mean, I have so much of it now, never having to spend it on diapers and grocery sucking food disposal units or putting it away for 4-7 years of paying for 1-3 post secondary educations that won't add any letters to my name....that it's piling up.
Maybe I'll rent a warehouse to keep it all in. Meh, too much effort. I think I'll just pay someone to rent one for me.
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