The Bad Drivers of Ontario Thread

[GreyGhost]

There's only one problem with that: Speeding isn't the worst thing that's going on out there. If it would free up officers to deal with other sorts on infractions then all good, however, odds are that officers will continue to prioritize speeding infractions over others. I see people run stale yellows and reds all of the time, frequently right in front of police, with no repercussions for example. Unsignalled lane changes are the norm, rather than the exception. People roll right through stop signs every time that I'm on the road. People simply don't understand that you are required to stop behind the stop line or you have, in fact, run a stop sign or light under the law. And I routinely have to creep forward, carefully, when a light changes because I can't see past the vehicle in the left turn lane, that is stopped in the crosswalk. Having been hit from behind on my bike while doing this makes me more than a little edgy, every time I have to do this for safety.

As a start, red light cameras could be easily reprogrammed to send out warning letters for stale yellows. That data could be linked with ALPR so if a cop witnesses a vehicle running a stale yellow and they have already received one or more warning letters, obviously it is time to get out the ticket book. Hell, red light cameras could even upgrade to stale yellow tickets after a certain number of warnings. Basically, if a driver has shown they don't believe the law applies to them, they need to stop for yellow as they have proven they can't make good choices.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

As a start, red light cameras could be easily reprogrammed to send out warning letters for stale yellows. That data could be linked with ALPR so if a cop witnesses a vehicle running a stale yellow and they have already received one or more warning letters, obviously it is time to get out the ticket book. Hell, red light cameras could even upgrade to stale yellow tickets after a certain number of warnings. Basically, if a driver has shown they don't believe the law applies to them, they need to stop for yellow as they have proven they can't make good choices.

Unfortunately, a picture showing a yellow would never be considered sufficient proof. And another issue, that seems to be particularly prevalent in the GTA, is the number of drivers who think that sneaking through after their advanced green has gone red is perfectly acceptable. Current red light cameras tech doesn't address this. I've had to wait for as many as 5 left turning cars to clear an intersection after the advanced has gone red, and the oncoming through light for me is green. All 5 are frequently behind the stop line and enter the intersection on the amber or red.

 

[GreyGhost]

Unfortunately, a picture showing a yellow would never be considered sufficient proof. And another issue, that seems to be particularly prevalent in the GTA, is the number of drivers who thing that sneaking through after their advanced green has gone red is perfectly acceptable. Current red light cameras tech doesn't address this. I've had to wait for as many as 5 left turning cars to clear an intersection after the advanced has gone red, and the oncoming through light for me is green. All 5 are frequently behind the stop line and enter the intersection on the amber or red.

They could probably get something through with case law to get yellow camera tickets to stick. Something like add a camera to see the road leading up to the intersection. If a vehicle is more than xx feet from intersection when light goes yellow (xx depending on speed limit) and has more than yy feet to the vehicle behind them (easiest way would be to paint lines on the road so no photogrametry was necessary), they become yellow ticket eligible if they pass the line. You can argue with the JP that you were grossly speeding and couldn't safely stop, you weren't paying attention and couldn't safely stop, you felt that you could make it before red, etc but you wouldn't have many great defence strategies.

 

[klr_guy]

And another issue, that seems to be particularly prevalent in the GTA, is the number of drivers who thing that sneaking through after their advanced green has gone red is perfectly acceptable.

Couldn't agree more, and I'm amazed at how oncoming drivers who now have a green light are 'ok' with this.

 

[GreyGhost]

Couldn't agree more, and I'm amazed at how oncoming drivers who now have a green light are 'ok' with this.

I saw a Macan do that yesterday. When oncoming drivers honked at them, the Porsche honked back. Entitled douche. Those intentional maneuvers should be dealt with harshly by the police and courts.

 

[bitzz]

so if a cop witnesses a vehicle running a stale yellow and they have already received one or more warning letters, obviously it is time to get out the ticket book

... except... how does the cop know if the driver he has pulled over is the driver that got those red light tickets?

 

[GreyGhost]

... except... how does the cop know if the driver he has pulled over is the driver that got those red light tickets?

Doesn't need too. They are't issuing tickets for the prior offences. The owner of the car received warnings already. No roadside mercy for the driver they have in front of them. They are issuing the ticket for the offence they saw. Nothing wrong with that. If the driver is the owner, they have been notified. If the driver is not the owner, too bad your whole family sucks at driving, here's your ticket for todays offence.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Doesn't need too. They are't issuing tickets for the prior offences. The owner of the car received warnings already. No roadside mercy for the driver they have in front of them. They are issuing the ticket for the offence they saw. Nothing wrong with that. If the driver is the owner, they have been notified. If the driver is not the owner, too bad your whole family sucks at driving, here's your ticket for todays offence.

I'm betting that some civil rights group would manage to get that tossed out as a form of punishment, for unproven previous offences.

 

[GreyGhost]

I'm betting that some civil rights group would manage to get that tossed out as a form of punishment, for unproven previous offences.

You are just issuing the ticket for the offense you saw today. You chose to stop them because they ran a stale yellow unnecessarily. Cops know how to work the courts.

 

[GreyGhost]

What is up with Mayfield Road this week? At least one fatality a day. Is Caledon trying to take away Bramptons crown?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

What is up with Mayfield Road this week? At least one fatality a day. Is Caledon trying to take away Bramptons crown?

We finally got some snow that stayed down. The road would at least be wet. It's straight and wide open, so people will do well above the posted limit. And it kind of is the top of Brampton, these days.

 

[Evoex]

There's only one problem with that: Speeding isn't the worst thing that's going on out there. If it would free up officers to deal with other sorts on infractions then all good, however, odds are that officers will continue to prioritize speeding infractions over others. I see people run stale yellows and reds all of the time, frequently right in front of police, with no repercussions for example.

I chatted about this very topic with one of the cops I had as a student this past summer. He claimed that they typically do not do anything in that situation because they do not want to abrubtly enter the intersection with code (lights/sirens) and then u turn/agressively pursue someone likely in moderate to heavy traffic. The odds of creating an accident situation in the intersection are too high.

 

[GreyGhost]

I chatted about this very topic with one of the cops I had as a student this past summer. He claimed that they typically do not do anything in that situation because they do not want to abrubtly enter the intersection with code (lights/sirens) and then u turn/agressively pursue someone likely in moderate to heavy traffic. The odds of creating an accident situation in the intersection are too high.

Simple solution to that. In known problem spots (and there are many) just wait up the road. Ideally an intersection with symmetric lights so video shows car position and lights. Wave them in as they approach the cop. Don't even need to drive. Running the yellow is using up most of their attention, they won't even see the cop until after they have committed the offence.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Simple solution to that. In known problem spots (and there are many) just wait up the road. Ideally an intersection with symmetric lights so video shows car position and lights. Wave them in as they approach the cop. Don't even need to drive. Running the yellow is using up most of their attention, they won't even see the cop until after they have committed the offence.

Unfortunately, on roads like Derry and Steeles, that would be every light in all directions.

 

[GreyGhost]

Unfortunately, on roads like Derry and Steeles, that would be every light in all directions.

That makes it harder to anticipate where the cop is waiting today. Stick a cop somewhere on the road all day every day until they aren't constantly busy.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

In Milton a timer starts as soon as the light turns yellow. In the intersection still after so much elapsed time, you get a ticket. A coworker's wife got one (he was driving her car at the time) and it had the duration of time in the intersection printed on the ticket.

 

[GreyGhost]

In Milton a timer starts as soon as the light turns yellow. In the intersection still after so much elapsed time, you get a ticket. A coworker's wife got one (he was driving her car at the time) and it had the duration of time in the intersection printed on the ticket.

In the intersection or entering the intersection after the timer passes X? Many times, the only lefts that can happen are the cars that stacked in the intersection on green and proceed on yellow.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

In the intersection or entering the intersection after the timer passes X?

I don't know the specifics of how it works, just what was on the ticket.

Many times, the only lefts that can happen are the cars that stacked in the intersection on green and proceed on yellow.

You do know that is technically illegal, right? You're not supposed to enter the intersection unless you can make your turn before the light turns. Practical? No. The law? Yes.

 

[GreyGhost]

You do know that is technically illegal, right? You're not supposed to enter the intersection unless you can make your turn before the light turns. Practical? No. The law? Yes.

Only occasionally and that is the exception not the rule. Even if they pass the by-law, turning your blinker on before entering the intersection means you are legal.

Blocking intersection​

145 (1) The council of a municipality may by by-law prohibit a driver or street car operator approaching, at an intersection, a traffic control signal showing a circular green or green arrow indication from entering the intersection unless traffic in front of him or her is moving in a manner that would reasonably lead him or her to believe he or she can clear the intersection before the signal indication changes to a circular red indication. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 145 (1).

Idem​

(2) A by-law passed under subsection (1) does not apply to a driver or street car operator who enters an intersection for the purpose of turning to the right or left into an intersecting highway and signals his or her intention to make the turn prior to entering the intersection. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 145 (2).

EDIT:
To be honest, I didn't realize that HTA was so ridiculously permissive. You can get a ticket for blocking if you are proceeding straight through but technically you can't if you were turning and had your blinker on before entering. You level up as a dbag if you make your left and hang out blocking all traffic for the light cycle. I am sure this happens often in downtown Toronto.

 

[GreyGhost]

Not much to say. One dead, two airlifted (including a baby) because a guy is an irresponsible dick.

Driver accused of speeding 2x over limit in poor weather causing deadly Clearview crash faces charges

Police have arrested a man accused of speeding nearly 100 kilometres per hour over the posted limit during poor weather conditions and failing to stop at a stop sign, causing a deadly collision in September in Clearview Township.

barrie.ctvnews.ca

Police have arrested a man accused of speeding nearly 100 kilometres per hour over the posted limit during poor weather conditions and failing to stop at a stop sign, causing a deadly collision in September(opens in a new tab) in Clearview Township.

According to police, the investigation allegedly revealed the accused was speeding 173 kilometres per hour in the posted 80 zone before the crash happened on the morning of Sept. 23 at 3-4 Sideroad Sunnidale and Concession Road 9 Sunnidale.