Shooting in Connecticut

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Red_Liner740 said:
And quit with this "high capacity" BS. STANDARD capacity magazine for an ar-15 is 30 rounds. LOW capacity are 20 and 10.

What i love is people who have never handled a firearm, havent a frigging clue how an AR-15 even ejects or loads a magazine are telling me how a 30 round vs 10 round is gonna save lives...
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Yes 30 rnds is standard that is still high capacity. As that is why the gun was originally designed with a smaller calibre to hold more bullets rather than less rounds and more stopping power that they had in the M14 style. The AR15 was designed to kill humans not hunt. Other than competition shooting what is the need for 30rnds at once?

I have shot an AR15 many times. Just because I don't agree with something doesn't mean I have no experience. Get off your high horse. Extensive regulation seems to work just fine here in Canada.
 
AdRath said:
Yes 30 rnds is standard that is still high capacity. As that is why the gun was originally designed with a smaller calibre to hold more bullets rather than less rounds and more stopping power that they had in the M14 style. The AR15 was designed to kill humans not hunt. Other than competition shooting what is the need for 30rnds at once?

I have shot an AR15 many times. Just because I don't agree with something doesn't mean I have no experience. Get off your high horse. Extensive regulation seems to work just fine here in Canada.
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Do you think a crazed psycho will lose sleep over breaking mag capacity laws? Do you think homey's gonna ask the CFO for an authorization to transport his Glock to go busta cap in dat suckaz ***? A person prepared to take a life is really gonna worry about equipment regulations?

The reason why we have less violence is that we have a more equitable society and less confrontational culture.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Do you think a crazed psycho will lose sleep over breaking mag capacity laws? Do you think homey's gonna ask the CFO for an authorization to transport his Glock to go busta cap in dat suckaz ***? A person prepared to take a life is really gonna worry about equipment regulations?

The reason why we have less violence is that we have a more equitable society and less confrontational culture.
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Its about making them harder to get. If high capacity mags aren't made anymore they become harder to get outside military circles.

If all rules were based on 'If it won't stop everyone then why bother' we wouldn't have any. It seems only when people talk about gun control does it become an all or nothing conversation which isn't the case.

You can't stop all hardened criminals but gun control measures which have minimal effect on the majority of law abiding shooters are a good step to prevent those who break reality from having the capability to shoot 30 individuals without having to pause and reload.
 
^^ +1.

The crux of this argument kind of follows most of the arguments on here which is:

I will be inconvenienced by X....therefore I don't want to do X even though X makes a minimal impact on my activities.

X= no lane splitting, highway speed limits blah blah blah.
 
AdRath said:
Its about making them harder to get. If high capacity mags aren't made anymore they become harder to get outside military circles.

If all rules were based on 'If it won't stop everyone then why bother' we wouldn't have any. It seems only when people talk about gun control does it become an all or nothing conversation which isn't the case.

You can't stop all hardened criminals but gun control measures which have minimal effect on the majority of law abiding shooters are a good step to prevent those who break reality from having the capability to shoot 30 individuals without having to pause and reload.
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How hard will it be to get any capacity magazine once 3d printers are more common? http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...acity-ammo-clips-to-thwart-proposed-gun-laws/

Anyway, back to the numbers.
Please refer to the USA Department of Justice report on Homicide, page 27: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

All of the excitement lately has been regarding magazines and rifles, however, looking at the stats you will see that rifle homicide is about on par with knife deaths as well as other objects and other blunt objects. The majority of the firearm homicides were committed using handguns, which I can't think of any that have 'high capacity' magazines.

You may also note, from these statistics, that most firearm homicides are committed by 17 year old black males.

So maybe the focus should be on analyzing why young black men are killing each other rather than blaming the tool.

Stop looking at this problem emotionally. If you want to reduce firearm homicide consider where the majority of firearm homicides are occurring and solve that problem, not just a band-aid solution that primary effects law-abiding citizens -- not the ones committing the crimes.
 
jc100 said:
^^ +1.

The crux of this argument kind of follows most of the arguments on here which is:

I will be inconvenienced by X....therefore I don't want to do X even though X makes a minimal impact on my activities.

X= no lane splitting, highway speed limits blah blah blah.
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No, we are saying what is the point of banning X when banning X will do nothing to solve the problem. The problem is not X, it is Y, so leave me and my X alone.
 
jc100 said:
Only in your minority opinion.
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Is that the best come back you've got?

After I post links to department of justice stats which clearly indicate that rifle homicide (and a very small percentage of rifles have high capacity magazines) is roughly on par with knive deaths and blunt object deaths -- yet this is somehow only my opinion?

Like I said above -- leave emotion out of this and consider the numbers. Rifles and rifles with high capacity magazines are not the problem. 17 year old black kids with handguns that want to shoot each other are -- according to the numbers.
 
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Diesel said:
No, we are saying what is the point of banning X when banning X will do nothing to solve the problem. The problem is not X, it is Y, so leave me and my X alone.
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The whole conversation of High Cap mag/assault rifle ban in the states has been sparked by two incidents recently where banning X would have would have led to a very different outcome.

Again just because you can't prevent all deaths due to X doesn't mean you shouldn't try and prevent the most horrific ones when X was at the core and banning X inconviences only a very small percentage of the population.
 
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AdRath said:
Its about making them harder to get. If high capacity mags aren't made anymore they become harder to get outside military circles.
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I don't see how much harder they would be to get if production stopped today. No serial numbers, no idea how many were made, probably a few billion of them in the US alone. Flea markets, ebay, gun forums, Wacko survivalist forums, the State of Nevada .... endless supply.

Even the legal 5/30 round mags here are just 30 rnd mags with a pin in them. You can buy a 100rnd twin drum magazine or 100 rnd box type magazine pinned to 5 rnds as well.

100 rnd surefire....

Surefire4full.jpg


100 rnd C-mag

ccm000-4.jpg


Glock version of C-mag

beta_glock.jpg


Standard Hi cap Glock mag 33rnd

glock.jpg
 
D23 said:
I don't see how much harder they would be to get if production stopped today. No serial numbers, no idea how many were made, probably a few billion of them in the US alone. Flea markets, ebay, gun forums, Wacko survivalist forums, the State of Nevada .... endless supply.

Even the legal 5/30 round mags here are just 30 rnd mags with a pin in them. You can buy a 100rnd twin drum magazine or 100 rnd box type magazine pinned to 5 rnds as well.
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Those magazines serve no legal purpose outside of the military application and should be restricted as such and destroyed.

Explosives are highly regulated because of the sheer amount of damage that is possible and I feel the same way for these. I have yet to hear a good reason to have these legal and in the hands of civilians.
 
jc100 said:
Only in your minority opinion.
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Minority? You better read some news on the incredible pushback that this weapons grab is having in US.

States, Sheriffs, Police departments have sent letters stating they will not infringe on 2nd amendment and any federal agents that try will be arrested. How many other departments feel the same way but havent sent a letter in?
 
AdRath said:
Those magazines serve no legal purpose outside of the military application and should be restricted as such and destroyed.
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Says Canadian you. Their legal purpose is to hold more rounds to lessen the down time reloading in States that allow them. It's still illegal to use them against people. Same as a 1 rnd bolt action rifle.

Persoanally I have no use for hicap mags and have no interest in spending hundreds of dollars for a 5/100 mag that is just weight and more moving parts to fail.

If someone does and aquires it legally who are we to say they can't have it?

The fact remains there are billions of mags like that out there and they don't go stale. A mag from viet nam era M-16 will work in my ST-15 so.....

Enjoy waiting for them to all turn into dust I guess.
 
Pre 9-11 there was a certain chemical I could get relatively easily for my research. If I could get it so could others. Post 9-11 they restricted that chemical and I now had to go through a massive amount of red tape to prove that I would be using it for research purposes and that it would be kept in a safe environment, locked with limited access etc etc...that chemical was a precursor that could be used to manufacture one half of a binary chemical nerve gas in just a few simple steps. It inconvenienced me to have to go through red tape to get a compound that was in free circulation before but the simple action of restriction now made the chemical harder to get...and rightly so. I see that as analogous to this argument.
 
Similarly. We deal with Homeland Security often when sending international wires, often our amounts are hundreds of millions. Also a post 9-11 thing.

Inconvenience, yes, but I wouldn't suggest that Homeland Security shouldn't have any tabs on that kind of thing.
 
Red_Liner740 said:
I dont know where this whole "USA has no background checks thing is coming from...."

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

there you go. Every firearm purchase from an FFL has to be first verified with NICS. IS that not a background check?

Purchasing a firearm with an intent to sell to someone else is already illegal, so putting up more laws wont stop anyone.

In the end, a determined criminal will use any and all means to gain an upper hand. Just look at the extend that Columbian Drug Cartels have gone to in an effort to smuggle drugs into US. Frigging submarines!
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Just one example.
In Arizona, it is legal for a person to walk up to another on a street corner, hand him cash for a firearm and simply walk off with it, with no need for a background check into his psychological or criminal history.

The Feds also can not mandate gun dealers keep inventories. so there is no way for the ATF to check if dealers are even doing the background checks at all.


I don't see how these laws are worth defending. I am just talking about reasonable gun legislation. I think controlling the secondary market is pretty important.
 
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We should get rid of speed limits because it's an inconvenience and slows you down.
We should get rid of stop signs because they once again slow you down.
We should get rid of traffic lights or allow people to run the red if they think no cars are coming.

One mans "inconvenience" is another mans life.

There is ZERO need for a civilian to have these assault type weapons.
And IF there is such a need then you go through a rigorous system of approvals much like the other person mentioning about the chemical agent used for their research. You are just being ruled by fear.

These are interesting points of views.
Some are speaking about sport shooters being inconvenienced.

You could be one of those teachers or if you were in a movie theater and some deranged or not deranged person opened fire.
If they have to reload every 5 or 10 shots then you have a better chance of survival to flea or to attack the shooter vs. the shooter just almost endlessly and rather quickly spraying bullets towards you.

Can someone please answer the following:
1. Why do civilians need hollow point bullets/armour piercing bullets?
2. Why does a civilian need a Tech9 or similar guns considering hunters do no use these?

If you want to join the gun fun in the USA then perhaps this is not the country for you.
 
I for one is not defending loose gun laws. There are certain laws in Ontario i do agree on, while others i disagree. Its certain things like a total ban that gets me fired up. Sometimes u have to put your foot on the ground & say enough is enough & just push back.

Sometimes people give a band aid soln. to a bigger problem

Sent from my Phone, dont judge the grammar
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