Shooting in Connecticut

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If anyone wants to be "a gun tootin ", "it aint guns it the government" and "if you are a in favor of any gun restrictions you are a simpleton" why dont you go live in the land of the fearful and not so brave, ( because you have to hide behind your gun) . That is not a society I want to live in, and yes I have travelled extensivly through out the US and in countries where any place Canada has to offer is a walk in the part. I am just waiting for one of you guys to start quoting World Freeman Society philosophy.
 
Gun laws didnt help in Norway:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

"He decided to obtain a semi-automatic rifle and a Glock pistol legally in Norway, noting that he had a "clean criminal record"

Relaxed gun laws in other European countries work fine:

"Policy in the Czech Republic is in many respects less restrictive than elsewhere in Europe (see Gun politics in the European Union
Self-defense is an acceptable justification to obtain a firearms license. The Czech gun laws also permits a citizen to carry a concealed weapon without having to specify a reason.

It is generally not common for licensed gun owners to commit violent crimes with their guns, and most of the gun crimes are committed with illegal weapons that are beyond the control of the law.

General attitude to gun ownership is that there is no point in banning guns because criminals will get guns no matter how tight the law is. Also the fact that Czech Republic has a strong tradition in firearms manufacturing and competition shooting contributes to generally moderate attitude to gun control."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_Czech_Republic
 
ItIsWhatItIs said:
WTF is going on here, why are we not trying to ban knives?

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/327431/china-video-reveals-school-knife-attack

It happened around the same time as newtown.
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Did you even read the article? Because of the strict gun control he ONLY had a knife and not a gun. Did you miss the part where no one died? In your blind haste you just made the best point for gun control in this thread. Lives were saved due to strict gun laws.

The same situation in the land of the paranoid cowboys resulted in 26 DEATHS.
 
gwelfmike said:
If anyone wants to be "a gun tootin ", "it aint guns it the government" and "if you are a in favor of any gun restrictions you are a simpleton" why dont you go live in the land of the fearful and not so brave, ( because you have to hide behind your gun) . That is not a society I want to live in, and yes I have travelled extensivly through out the US and in countries where any place Canada has to offer is a walk in the part. I am just waiting for one of you guys to start quoting World Freeman Society philosophy.
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This is my experience. The ones who want to cary a gun everywhere are usually paranoid afraid individuals. Guns make cowards brave. A man is so afraid of other men, needs guns to make himself feel equal. This is the real problem with gun culture in the states and what makes guns bad. Adam Lanza (like many other inadequate individuals out there) is a wimp however with a gun he can rise above his naturally selected notch in life's hierarchy and make himself a 'big man'

Here is a prime example of another small man using his gun instead of his brain.
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/19/3973853/missouri-man-accused-of-shooting.html

And people wonder why guns should be regulated. It isn't just what they can do in the wrong hands but also what impact they have on a persons state of mind. Good thing in this case no bystanders were hit.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
My recommendation is to read up on Bath School Disaster - the worst school massacre in US history and reconsider what you just wrote
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In today's controlled explosives market and watch of certain chemicals that wouldn't have happened. I bet explosives loving citizens feel violated they can't stash explosives to protect themselves in case ze German zombies come. Like I said people are way too nuts to have access to such destructive materials.

Not saying you can prevent every murder if you ban guns, but you have to be delirious not to believe it won't prevent some.
 
AdRath said:
Did you even read the article? Because of the strict gun control he ONLY had a knife and not a gun. Did you miss the part where no one died? In your blind haste you just made the best point for gun control in this thread. Lives were saved due to strict gun laws.

The same situation in the land of the paranoid cowboys resulted in 26 DEATHS.
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yeah, if you say so.
 
gwelfmike said:
If anyone wants to be "a gun tootin ", "it aint guns it the government" and "if you are a in favor of any gun restrictions you are a simpleton" why dont you go live in the land of the fearful and not so brave, ( because you have to hide behind your gun) . That is not a society I want to live in, and yes I have travelled extensivly through out the US and in countries where any place Canada has to offer is a walk in the part. I am just waiting for one of you guys to start quoting World Freeman Society philosophy.
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I'm a sports shooter and don't feel the need to own a gun for self-defense. With that being said, I would not begrudge any law-abiding citizen the opportunity to own a firearm should they wish to do so and have no history of violence. Canada already has a lot higher rate of firearm ownership than most of the world. 1 in 3 Canadians already own a firearm. Most of us own firearms for hunting or sports shooting, but we're still armed to the teeth and have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. If you wanna go with paranoia, look at the Swiss.. They have a 45% firearm ownership rate as an invasion-deterrent measure, mostly what would actually classify as "assault rifles" and are also at the bottom of the pile for violent (or any) crime.

Our current body of laws would prevent law-abiding citizens from committing violent crimes. You own a hammer, I own a hammer, it's a tool. You hit someone with it, it becomes a weapon with all the legal connotations. Same goes for firearms. Anybody crazy enough to attack someone with a gun or a hammer won't be concerned over legal niceties.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
I'm a sports shooter and don't feel the need to own a gun for self-defense. With that being said, I would not begrudge any law-abiding citizen the opportunity to own a firearm should they wish to do so and have no history of violence. Canada already has a lot higher rate of firearm ownership than most of the world. 1 in 3 Canadians already own a firearm. Most of us own firearms for hunting or sports shooting, but we're still armed to the teeth and have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
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No one here is disagreeing with Canadian gun laws. What people are suggesting that the states examine their 'Every idiot should have a gun' policy. Not everyone should be able to own a weapon. Now when you get into the cary conceal it gets even more important to monitor who is walking around with a loaded pistol. In Virginia they just past a law not requiring people to be assesed after they pass their first cary and conceal test because having to re-qualify could prevent people from carrying a gun. Well ya no **** I think it should. Some people shouldn't have guns. It is mass paranoia that you should always be packing in case the boogey man shows up.

FiReSTaRT said:
If you wanna go with paranoia, look at the Swiss.. They have a 45% firearm ownership rate as an invasion-deterrent measure, mostly what would actually classify as "assault rifles" and are also at the bottom of the pile for violent (or any) crime.
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They also have mandated military service and are part of a reserve army in the need to defend just like the IDF. You can't compare training in a strict enviroment with the lax guns attitude toward storage and care that is demonstrated over and over in the states. When you don't take serious weapons seriously it leads to problems. If you have a loaded gun under your pillow in case the boogey man comes that isn't proper care/storage and respect for firearms. Most of these clowns even have small children in the house and then wonder why gun accidents happen.

FiReSTaRT said:
Our current body of laws would prevent law-abiding citizens from committing violent crimes. You own a hammer, I own a hammer, it's a tool. You hit someone with it, it becomes a weapon with all the legal connotations. Same goes for firearms. Anybody crazy enough to attack someone with a gun or a hammer won't be concerned over legal niceties.
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The issue is not something being used as a weapon it is the amount of damage that can be done. Grenades are made illegal due to their possible deadly impact. I feel the same about high capacity mags. 556 rounds aren't anything special but packing them into a 30 round mag raises the ability to kill mass amounts of things. Something that isn't needed for a shooting range or hunting. The downsides outweigh the positives. Sure you can kill people with a hammer but you can't mass kill an entire class of kids with a hammer in a matter of minutes. Just look at the attack on a school in china. Same situation a mentally deranged man attacked kids in a school. What makes it different was due to gun control it was only a knife instead of a gun an ZERO kids died as opposed to 26 deaths. The facts are pretty clear that just because something can kill doesn't make all weapons equal.
 
AdRath said:
No one here is disagreeing with Canadian gun laws. What people are suggesting that the states examine their 'Every idiot should have a gun' policy. Not everyone should be able to own a weapon. Now when you get into the cary conceal it gets even more important to monitor who is walking around with a loaded pistol. In Virginia they just past a law not requiring people to be assesed after they pass their first cary and conceal test because having to re-qualify could prevent people from carrying a gun. Well ya no **** I think it should. Some people shouldn't have guns. It is mass paranoia that you should always be packing in case the boogey man shows up.



They also have mandated military service and are part of a reserve army in the need to defend just like the IDF. You can't compare training in a strict enviroment with the lax guns attitude toward storage and care that is demonstrated over and over in the states. When you don't take serious weapons seriously it leads to problems. If you have a loaded gun under your pillow in case the boogey man comes that isn't proper care/storage and respect for firearms. Most of these clowns even have small children in the house and then wonder why gun accidents happen.



The issue is not something being used as a weapon it is the amount of damage that can be done. Grenades are made illegal due to their possible deadly impact. I feel the same about high capacity mags. 556 rounds aren't anything special but packing them into a 30 round mag raises the ability to kill mass amounts of things. Something that isn't needed for a shooting range or hunting. The downsides outweigh the positives. Sure you can kill people with a hammer but you can't mass kill an entire class of kids with a hammer in a matter of minutes. Just look at the attack on a school in china. Same situation a mentally deranged man attacked kids in a school. What makes it different was due to gun control it was only a knife instead of a gun an ZERO kids died as opposed to 26 deaths. The facts are pretty clear that just because something can kill doesn't make all weapons equal.
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Bulletin, Your opinion, as to what the US should do, amounts to squat. Point #1 Canada was an ENEMY to the US. Point #2 Canada represents a monarchy the US Fought to break free of and a haven for Independence cowards. Point #3 Ontario wasn't populated until after American Independence. The English population of Ontario represents the Independence Haters and Queen lovers. Nuff said, Canada has zero cred to the average american.
 
Firststart,

I understand what you are saying about hunting, have I hunted ? Yes. Did I like it, not so much. I just find it easier to go to the butcher or the fish store to get my meat. The problem with the average joe citizen owning a gun for protection, they do not know how to handle it in a crisis sitution, this is not from me, this is from some of guys I know who trained long and hard for crisis situations, either military or police. And handling a gun for hunting is a lot different from handling a gun in crisis mode.

Also, when is the last time you read in the paper " man with hammer kills 5 and self while robbing a bank"

or

"Man with hammer kills 20 children and 7 adults then turns the hammer on himself ?"
 
@AdRath - You are describing a scenario where guns should be handed out indiscriminately and I'm not for that. I am for safety training and testing in addition to background checks. I don't want some random yahoo sweeping me at the range or anywhere else for that matter.

You are right that Switzerland has some rather unique circumstances, but look at Serbia at the other end of the scale. Pretty much all the adult males have military training (mandatory service was just recently discontinued), but there is still a very high crime and murder rate. Bottom line: It boils down to socioeconomic factors.. On the upside, the only unsupervised rural ridings where Milosevic's party didn't "win" seats by default were the ones where hunters and people who got guns for protections came over, guarded the ballots, kept his goons away and only handed them to elections officials.

If you don't see a sporting use for non-neutered mags, then you haven't seen action shooting. Reloads kill the flow and reloading speed becomes almost as important as marksmanship, thus negatively affecting the sports.

@gwelfmike: I have 2 comments for you..

1) Just because we would be allowed to own guns for protection doesn't mean that your practical Canadian would wanna bother with the hassles. I pay extra money to keep my tools light.. I don't want an extra kilo and change on me. Making it legal would have very small impact on gun ownership.

2) A guy with a bit of diesel fuel and fertilizer killed 3 times the people the most prolific mass shooter in history did and 6 times the number of victims of the runner-up.. A guy with a can of gas and a box of matches matched him. A bunch of guys with boxcutters killed more people than all the spree killers combined on this continent. Just because mass media sells advertising by sensationalizing those wackoids doesn't mean that they're even half a blip on the statistical radar.
 
..and they banned box cutters and knives on planes, not so many hijacks since. Large fertilizer purchases if you don't have a farm are flagged by the RCMP now. How many diesel/fuel oil bombs have exploded since Oklahoma? The components of nerve gases are flagged such that anyone attempting to purchase them receives special attention now....how many nerve gas attacks since the Tokyo subway one? Yes..many laws and regulations are reactionary instead of precautionary, but guess what...some of them work.
 
you guys can't SERIOUSLY believe that in the absence of guns, all these mentally unstable people, criminals, etc are downloading the Anarchist's Cookbook and making bombs.. I know its impossible to remove guns from the equation all together, and I certainly do not believe that is the answer, but this ridiculous argument that these murders and tragedies would happen with a knife or improvised explosive is really, really reaching.

If McVeigh set the bar so high, why is it no one else has ever attempted to do it again? Why haven't any of these shootings been bomb attacks instead? I'm going to guess because its much, MUCH easier to simply turn the gun on yourself after you've committed your atrocities, vs blowing yourself to pieces. And, getting a gun is WAY easier to slip under the radar, and basically "childproof".. making, planting, detonating explosives... its a lot more "involved".

These are americans, not islamist radicals.
 
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jc100 said:
..and they banned box cutters and knives on planes, not so many hijacks since. Large fertilizer purchases if you don't have a farm are flagged by the RCMP now. How many diesel/fuel oil bombs have exploded since Oklahoma? The components of nerve gases are flagged such that anyone attempting to purchase them receives special attention now....how many nerve gas attacks since the Tokyo subway one? Yes..many laws and regulations are reactionary instead of precautionary, but guess what...some of them work.
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You keep banning things and they keep coming up with new and creative ways to cause mayhem.

stevex said:
you guys can't SERIOUSLY believe that in the absence of guns, all these mentally unstable people, criminals, etc are downloading the Anarchist's Cookbook and making bombs.. I know its impossible to remove guns from the equation all together, and I certainly do not believe that is the answer, but this ridiculous argument that these murders and tragedies would happen with a knife or improvised explosive is really, really reaching
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Considering the fact that they still hold records for #2 and #3 biggest mass killings in US history (do not forget the fact that #1 also did not involve any guns) and the record for the biggest mass killing in a school, I'd say that some of them are downloading certain publications and applying the lessons that they learned from Uncle Sam and the friendly Internet community.
 
You know you're on a non-starter here. More creative means more difficult and the average unhinged whacko as opposed to a dedicated terrorist is not going to go there. A dedicated terrorist will always find some way of trying to reach his goal.

Removing the available equipment for certain types of attacks after the event means another event of that type is less possible. I'm not sure you'd argue that nothing be done would you?

I agree with you on another point that most knee-jerk reactions often don't have the desired effect but...there's plenty of evidence from around the world that some sensible regulation probably will.
 
The US gun stores are reporting record sales of weapons this week. Some stores have reported 1000 sales since Monday. Another claimed 1000 sales on Monday.

Monday morning at one store.

68792_415702675145316_413738405_n-tm-tfb.jpg


Monday evening.

472001_445841405464776_1399674606_o-tm-tfb1.jpg


Tuesday.

471638_10152316714095231_150363865_o-tm-tfb.jpg


Wow. Assault rifles are the new iPhone.
 
D23 said:
The US gun stores are reporting record sales of weapons this week. Some stores have reported 1000 sales since Monday. Another claimed 1000 sales on Monday.


Wow. Assault rifles are the new iPhone.
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Their logic is they dont wanna be caught with thei pants down


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