Shooting in Connecticut

[mmmnaked]

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We are talking about restricting access to guns. The mentally ill shouldn't be stockpiling guns/ammo/body armour legally. That is the problem people want to take care of. Restricting access for those who shouldn't have it is not something that will effect the average responsible gun owner just as it doesn't here. If you want a gun you need to go through the vetting process. The problem lies in the fact that many gun owners in the states are some of the most paranoid people around. The government isn't coming for your guns. They want to prevent those who should never handle a weapon from doing so easily and legally.

Why does a citizen need a 30 plus round magazine? who are you going to war with?

That's a fallacy- they have 300 million guns already, what possible cure is there now?

Instead of wasting all this energy and money on a fight over gun control, they should re-think their approach to dealing with troubled youths, bullying, and especially mental illness... which is the underlying cause of almost all of these massacres. Why in the world is this much energy being expended on the WEAPON instead of the CAUSE?

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

So you want to be armed in order to shoot police if they tazer you? Really? Is that your argument here? And I thought we were having a rational conversation about gun control. :roll:

As I said, this is a security issue, not a gun issue.

 

[AdRath]

That's a fallacy- they have 300 million guns already, what possible cure is there now?

Instead of wasting all this energy and money on a fight over gun control, they should re-think their approach to dealing with troubled youths, bullying, and especially mental illness... which is the underlying cause of almost all of these massacres. Why in the world is this much energy being expended on the WEAPON instead of the CAUSE?

One does not preclude the other. The weapon and the cause should be looked at. Mental health is something that is very important but sadly the first to go on the chopping block when cuts come. I agree mental health does need to be the focus but what I keep seeing as an issue is that these mentally ill people are gaining access to guns and lots of guns legally. This is something that can be prevented. Just because there are a lot of guns out there doesn't mean that they shouldn't start a discussion on preventing mentally ill people from amassing weapons legally. Regulating who can buy a gun is a short term solution with more positive benefits to society than negative.
Re-working the entire mental health system that is failing these kids should be the end goal. A hard conversation to have as US congress battles over cutting anything on the government tab.

 

[AdRath]

As I said, this is a security issue, not a gun issue.

Its coming off as your own personal battle with paranoia. Canada is a very safe place and that is a fact. Maybe you should stop searching for the rare cases and open your eyes to the obvious reality we live in here. Your personal security is not at threat and most certainly doesn't trump my right to not be shot by some paranoid gun owner convinced everyone is out to get him. Especially someone who espouses drunks carrying guns for self defence.

 

[mmmnaked]

One does not preclude the other. The weapon and the cause should be looked at. Mental health is something that is very important but sadly the first to go on the chopping block when cuts come. I agree mental health does need to be the focus but what I keep seeing as an issue is that these mentally ill people are gaining access to guns and lots of guns legally. This is something that can be prevented. Just because there are a lot of guns out there doesn't mean that they shouldn't start a discussion on preventing mentally ill people from amassing weapons legally. Regulating who can buy a gun is a short term solution with more positive benefits to society than negative.
Re-working the entire mental health system that is failing these kids should be the end goal. A hard conversation to have as US congress battles over cutting anything on the government tab.

I think the numbers speak for themselves. 300 million guns; 40-50% of households have firearms. Americans like their guns, Americans like their 2nd amendment. ******** aside, there are plenty of valid reasons to own a gun, ranging from defense of your family and property to hunting and sporting uses.

It's no secret that further regulation and restriction of gun ownership can, and probably will lead to confiscation and seizure. This is why organizations like the NRA appear stubborn and radical, completely unwilling to budge on the issue.

I think its unfair that these massacres are so heavily politicized. I also firmly believe that the ones who are insecure and afraid are those who cry for gun bans after events such as this- falsely thinking that legislation will make them any safer than they already are.

 

[AdRath]

I also firmly believe that the ones who are insecure and afraid are those who cry for gun bans after events such as this- falsely thinking that legislation will make them any safer than they already are.

I would say that the equally insecure are those who cry for more guns and everyone to carry in order to make them safer. I'm a firm believer in the middle ground here as I do enjoy shooting sports and used to hunt as a teenager.

I agree with many of your points. In my opinion US gun culture is exactly why they have disproportionate gun violence compared to the rest of the civilized world. Live by the gun die by the gun.

I am a fan of our gun laws here. I think its a nice balance of responsibility and access for recreation and hunting.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

Its coming off as your own personal battle with paranoia. Canada is a very safe place and that is a fact. Maybe you should stop searching for the rare cases and open your eyes to the obvious reality we live in here. Your personal security is not at threat and most certainly doesn't trump my right to not be shot by some paranoid gun owner convinced everyone is out to get him. Especially someone who espouses drunks carrying guns for self defence.

Deal with it, the right to bare arms is entrenched in the US constitution. Guns will remain as long as the US endures. As for your attitude towards individual security and your delusions of being safe is problematic and dishonest.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/12/18/toronto-home-invasion.html

Hot off the press, luckily they weren't killed. People have a right to be safe. Being Safe is having the means to protect against the aggressor.

 

[murf]

I would say that the equally insecure are those who cry for more guns and everyone to carry in order to make them safer. I'm a firm believer in the middle ground here as I do enjoy shooting sports and used to hunt as a teenager.

I agree with many of your points. In my opinion US gun culture is exactly why they have disproportionate gun violence compared to the rest of the civilized world. Live by the gun die by the gun.

I am a fan of our gun laws here. I think its a nice balance of responsibility and access for recreation and hunting.

I wonder how many of the increased instances of shootings in the usa are due to self defense and protecting ones property when compared to Canada?

Found this:


Someone discharged a firearm in “self defense” about 75,000 times during 2010; primarily to deter criminal aggression.

Some 7,500 criminal aggressors were shot during 2010.

1,200 of those aggressors died as a result of their wounds.

While that is neither official or complete, it does encompass those shootings reported by most daily newspapers in the United States.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

I wonder how many of the increased instances of shootings in the usa are due to self defense and protecting ones property when compared to Canada?

Adrath believes the 79 home invaders in Toronto this year have MORE of a right to NOT be shot by a home owner with a gun. Adrath does not have a grasp on reality. For this reason, there is no reasoning, end of discussion with him.

 

[murf]

Residents in Detroit probably want 50 round mags!

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-ne...l-average-justifiable-homicide-up-79_02102012

 

[AdRath]

Adrath believes the 79 home invaders in Toronto this year have MORE of a right to NOT be shot by a home owner with a gun. Adrath does not have a grasp on reality. For this reason, there is no reasoning, end of discussion with him.

No I believe that 'I' have the right to not be shot by some moron who thinks he can come to the rescue with his gun. When you have your shoot out with your home invaders I sure hope none of your rounds don't hit anyone elses house. I guess then they would be entitled to go and shoot you as you just fired on them? More guns does not make the world a better place. I know lots of people who carry in the states everywhere. Many of them are ex military special forces. Even they admit that the average clown on the street probably would do more harm then good by rushing to save the day with a shoot out. Unless you train to shoot under duress chances are you would do more harm then good.

Out of all of the home invasions in Toronto how many people were killed?

 

[SFer]

At least an order of magnitude higher than what's happening currently.

37,000 people killed themselves in the US last year. 10,000 died thanks to drinking and driving. How many died in freak mass shooting events? 50?

Yeah it's tragic when it happens, but it's statistically insignificant. If this were ANY other kind of situation besides a mass shooting, nobody would blink an eye. 50 dead in a year, out of 300 million? Jeez, what ELSE is on TV?

The majority of these acts are committed by mentally ill individuals, who displayed sings of it prior to carrying out the deeds.... and we're talking about guns?

35,000 deaths by firearms a year.

3,000-4,000 of those are children and teenagers.

75 of those are children under five who had access to firearms because of lax gun control and education.

Every single year.

I would vote for tighter gun control to save just one of those 75, never mind the other 3000 kids.

 

[RockerGuy]

 

[mmmnaked]

35,000 deaths by firearms a year.

3,000-4,000 of those are children and teenagers.

75 of those are children under five who had access to firearms because of lax gun control and education.

Every single year.

I would vote for tighter gun control to save just one of those 75, never mind the other 3000 kids.

Ahhh yes, the "if it would save just ONE child" argument.... what a crock.

 

[DownUnder]

35,000 deaths by firearms a year.

3,000-4,000 of those are children and teenagers.

75 of those are children under five who had access to firearms because of lax gun control and education.

Every single year.

I would vote for tighter gun control to save just one of those 75, never mind the other 3000 kids.

Problem is, you cant judge how many lives gun ownership has actually saved... ie: as a deterrent to real criminals.

 

[SFer]

Ahhh yes, the "if it would save just ONE child" argument.... what a crock.

And by wanting to save one, you'd save thousands.

 

[mmmnaked]

You can't legislate away stupidity. Those 75 kids would've been saved by better parenting. You're gonna guarantee me that those same parents who allow their 5 year-old to access their guns also won't allow the kid access to poisonous household chemicals?

Not to mention the injustice of punishing tens of millions of safe, legal firearms owners for the irresponsible actions of a careless few......

 

[SFer]

You can't legislate away stupidity. Those 75 kids would've been saved by better parenting. You're gonna guarantee me that those same parents who allow their 5 year-old to access their guns also won't allow the kid access to poisonous household chemicals?

Not to mention the injustice of punishing tens of millions of safe, legal firearms owners for the irresponsible actions of a careless few......

They are being punished by having to properly store and transport thier firearms?

 

[CruisnGrrl]

You can't legislate away stupidity. Those 75 kids would've been saved by better parenting. You're gonna guarantee me that those same parents who allow their 5 year-old to access their guns also won't allow the kid access to poisonous household chemicals?

Not to mention the injustice of punishing tens of millions of safe, legal firearms owners for the irresponsible actions of a careless few......

Gun control doesn't mean banning. Legislating proper storage and education would be how I would deal with the situation in the USA

 

[jc100]

Adrath believes the 79 home invaders in Toronto this year have MORE of a right to NOT be shot by a home owner with a gun. Adrath does not have a grasp on reality. For this reason, there is no reasoning, end of discussion with him.

Lets just say you have a wayward kid...and your kid in a fit of juvenile deliquency decides to steal a car...only the car owner is an armed to the teeth paranoid member of society and he shoots first and asks questions later. Is the sentence for car theft now death? Granted we've stepped down from home invasion to car theft...but you see where we're going right? Burglary-death, car theft-death, shoplifting-death, parking in front of someone elses house-death. Personally I think it's really easy to see where the statistics for high gun related deaths comes from in the US. I've never met such a bunch of paranoid people. I was always amazed by the number of friendly fire incidents coming from the US military in the wars they've been involved in but if you look hard at the culture it's not that difficult to fathom.

As pointed out above, no one is having a pop at responsible gun ownership. It's the irresponsible gun owners that are the problem.

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