Shooting in Connecticut

[bigguy1]

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Speak for yourself. I know many, many other firearms owners who are not happy with what we have here in Canada. I agree with checks and balances. I agree with safe storage to a point. I do think that we should have the right to defend ourselves should we need to. I also think that just because someone forgets to renew a license or some paperwork error they should not be made into an automatic criminal and have all their firearms confiscated.


It's funny how there are people who say, you need to keep the guns locked up as there are a lot of crazy people out there. But when I say I want the right to be able to defend myself and my family, they ask why? and proceed to tell me how Canada is a safe place.

Not sure why anyone's getting their knickers in a twist about this....as Canadians it seems things are more or less OK here, and most people seem to agree with that....our neighbours to the south have shown though that many of them can't be trusted to keep a peashooter let alone a firearm in their house.

However, if your argument is to have similar regulations to our rather trigger happy and rather fearful, paranoid cousins then there's plenty to squabble about as we're seeing all to well what happens then.

For me personally I'm perfectly fine with things in Canada as if I bump into a disagreeable drunk redneck in a bar here I may have to worry about a broken bottle at worst...in some states of the US I'm now going to worry if the guy has seen too many Dirty Harry movies.

 

[murf]

There's a really interesting geopolitical map of the US at the time of the writing of the constitution that's floating around. Let's just say things were a lot different then than they are now. There's tons of things that used to be done that were thought sensible at the time that we no longer think are such good ideas...burning witches for instance.

Lets just say many americans dislike the govt on a scale not found in Canada and wont give up their gun rights very easily.

 

[murf]

They may change the magazine size like they did in Cali after this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVeb_zZdliw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

Speak for yourself. I know many, many other firearms owners who are not happy with what we have here in Canada. I agree with checks and balances. I agree with safe storage to a point. I do think that we should have the right to defend ourselves should we need to. I also think that just because someone forgets to renew a license or some paperwork error they should not be made into an automatic criminal and have all their firearms confiscated.


It's funny how there are people who say, you need to keep the guns locked up as there are a lot of crazy people out there. But when I say I want the right to be able to defend myself and my family, they ask why? and proceed to tell me how Canada is a safe place.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/10/09/nb-assault-bar-arrest-wheeler.html

Chances are if this guy had the means to defend himself he would still be riding about. People are not to be relied on or trusted to help you. Society wants to lie to you and tell you, you are safe, not so. These same liars want to keep you vulnerable and prey to their fellow lying brothers. This shooting was a sad event, the issue here is school security, not guns.

 

[AdRath]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/10/09/nb-assault-bar-arrest-wheeler.html

Chances are if this guy had the means to defend himself he would still be riding about. People are not to be relied on or trusted to help you. Society wants to lie to you and tell you, you are safe, not so. These same liars want to keep you vulnerable and prey to their fellow lying brothers. This shooting was a sad event, the issue here is school security, not guns.

Adding guns could easily have turned one death into many. Are you a good enough shot after a night at the bar to guarantee every bullet hits its intended target? Maybe give relaxed gun laws would have resulted the guy just was shot instead of beaten maybe hitting innocent bystandards also.
Adding more weapons to a situation doesn't automatically make it better it could more than often make it much worse. Carrying a hand gun inside a bar is a recipe for disaster.

Both of our hypothetical situations are just as valid. The arm everyone crowd doesn't seem to think about the downside of using a gun to defend yourself in public. You are right people aren't to be trusted which is why I'm glad we restrict certain firearms from people here in Canada.

The CT shooting isn't just about school security. It is about having an well stocked gun collection with high capacity mags while a child with behaviour issues is in the house and being trained to use them by the mother. A vetting process on gun ownership could have made a huge difference. The mother was very well armed and her guns didn't protect her at all.

 

[jc100]

Speak for yourself. I know many, many other firearms owners who are not happy with what we have here in Canada. I agree with checks and balances. I agree with safe storage to a point. I do think that we should have the right to defend ourselves should we need to. I also think that just because someone forgets to renew a license or some paperwork error they should not be made into an automatic criminal and have all their firearms confiscated.


It's funny how there are people who say, you need to keep the guns locked up as there are a lot of crazy people out there. But when I say I want the right to be able to defend myself and my family, they ask why? and proceed to tell me how Canada is a safe place.

Lol...fear is a powerful thing isn't it? I've lived in many places around the world and been to quite a few dangerous places in my time....all completely unarmed and never felt the need to carry a weapon. If you really feel that threatened in Canada I suggest you never leave your house.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

Adding guns could easily have turned one death into many. Are you a good enough shot after a night at the bar to guarantee every bullet hits its intended target? Maybe give relaxed gun laws would have resulted the guy just was shot instead of beaten maybe hitting innocent bystandards also.
Adding more weapons to a situation doesn't automatically make it better it could more than often make it much worse. Carrying a hand gun inside a bar is a recipe for disaster.

Both of our hypothetical situations are just as valid. The arm everyone crowd doesn't seem to think about the downside of using a gun to defend yourself in public. You are right people aren't to be trusted which is why I'm glad we restrict certain firearms from people here in Canada.

The CT shooting isn't just about school security. It is about having an well stocked gun collection with high capacity mags while a child with behaviour issues is in the house and being trained to use them by the mother. A vetting process on gun ownership could have made a huge difference. The mother was very well armed and her guns didn't protect her at all.

It is a security issue, Court Houses, Airports, and so forth have screening in place. Schools should be added to the list. Death is apart of life, whether by accident, disease, or negligence of others. Accidents happen, disease happens, negligence unacceptable. It was negligent of the school to not have security in place to prevent access to the unauthorized. Canadian Society was negligent to this person who was beaten to death outside of a bar because he was not given the means to defend himself. There are countless stories in Canada of people being beaten to death. Like seatbelts, guns save lives.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/08/22/two-charged-in-road-rage-beating-of-elderly-man-friend/

Smith and wesson would have handled this situation properely.

 

[mmmnaked]

50,000,000 public school students in the USA, and fewer than 30 will die in a school shooting.... and this requires a massive push for new anti-gun legislation, in the name of "safety"? You're right, fear IS a powerful thing.

 

[backmarkerducati]

50,000,000 public school students in the USA, and fewer than 30 will die in a school shooting.... and this requires a massive push for new anti-gun legislation, in the name of "safety"? You're right, fear IS a powerful thing.

31 School shootings (some mass) in the US since 1996. 14 for the ENTIRE rest of the world.

I have no problems with guns when they are secured and handled properly, limit clip sizes and make people store them so kids and nutbars cannot get them and everyone wins.

But as I said before, this is more a culture problem and that needs to be addressed. Too many in the US are scared of the boogeyman and need to keep their gunS at finger tip length leaving them available to their kids. Unless they learn from teir mistakes they are doomed to repeat them.

 

[backmarkerducati]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/10/09/nb-assault-bar-arrest-wheeler.html

Chances are if this guy had the means to defend himself he would still be riding about. People are not to be relied on or trusted to help you. Society wants to lie to you and tell you, you are safe, not so. These same liars want to keep you vulnerable and prey to their fellow lying brothers. This shooting was a sad event, the issue here is school security, not guns.

Mega fail....

First not too many bars will let you carry even in the states that are concealed carry happy, they are at least smart enough to know booze and guns do not mix. So it is unlikely this person would have been carrying even there.

Next is the obvious, drunks with handguns = lots of stray bullets.

And best yet, "An eyewitness told CBC News a member of the Bacchus motorcycle gang was involved.", yeah you are going to do well against an ARMED motorcycle gang (you have one so will they) with your weelittle concealed carry 9mm, guy would have been shot before he had it in his hand.

 

[AdRath]

It is a security issue, Court Houses, Airports, and so forth have screening in place. Schools should be added to the list. Death is apart of life, whether by accident, disease, or negligence of others. Accidents happen, disease happens, negligence unacceptable. It was negligent of the school to not have security in place to prevent access to the unauthorized. Canadian Society was negligent to this person who was beaten to death outside of a bar because he was not given the means to defend himself. There are countless stories in Canada of people being beaten to death. Like seatbelts, guns save lives.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/08/22/two-charged-in-road-rage-beating-of-elderly-man-friend/

Smith and wesson would have handled this situation properely.

Your delusional or have been watching too many video games if you really believe guns would keep everyone safe. You didn't even address the very possible (and more likely situation) I proposed above. Can you guarantee that every shot hits its mark? Of course not. What about the other people around you? Bullets don't just stop when they miss. Just look at the shootout this summer near the empire state building. All innocent people that were shot were due to police bullets not the suspect. Everyone fancies themselves a great shot but very few people shoot under stress.

For each of these beating examples if we had lax gun laws they would be just as easily shootings. Either way same result its just easier to kill more people and faster with a gun. I haven't seen one piece of evidence to convince me that adding a gun to these situations would make them better. Weapons can and often end up used against the person if not trained properly. How would you propose to train everyone properly?

This issue is far more complex than 'ban all guns' or 'everyone should carry a gun'. The facts are very clear that in Canada you stand very little chance of ever needing to use a gun in self defence. Most Police never discharge their weapon in the line of duty. We are safe here. Cherry picking a few examples of beatings as a reason to arm everyone is nothing but paranoia which is a very scary trait in someone proposing that he carry a gun around.

 

[mmmnaked]

31 School shootings (some mass) in the US since 1996. 14 for the ENTIRE rest of the world.

I have no problems with guns when they are secured and handled properly, limit clip sizes and make people store them so kids and nutbars cannot get them and everyone wins.

But as I said before, this is more a culture problem and that needs to be addressed. Too many in the US are scared of the boogeyman and need to keep their gunS at finger tip length leaving them available to their kids. Unless they learn from teir mistakes they are doomed to repeat them.

How many dead in the 31 shootings, in those 17 years?

I'd say the ones scared of a boogeyman are those seeking irrational legislative changes to cure a problem which just isn't that big to begin with.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

Your delusional or have been watching too many video games if you really believe guns would keep everyone safe. You didn't even address the very possible (and more likely situation) I proposed above. Can you guarantee that every shot hits its mark? Of course not. What about the other people around you? Bullets don't just stop when they miss. Just look at the shootout this summer near the empire state building. All innocent people that were shot were due to police bullets not the suspect. Everyone fancies themselves a great shot but very few people shoot under stress.

For each of these beating examples if we had lax gun laws they would be just as easily shootings. Either way same result its just easier to kill more people and faster with a gun. I haven't seen one piece of evidence to convince me that adding a gun to these situations would make them better. Weapons can and often end up used against the person if not trained properly. How would you propose to train everyone properly?

This issue is far more complex than 'ban all guns' or 'everyone should carry a gun'. The facts are very clear that in Canada you stand very little chance of ever needing to use a gun in self defence. Most Police never discharge their weapon in the line of duty. We are safe here. Cherry picking a few examples of beatings as a reason to arm everyone is nothing but paranoia which is a very scary trait in someone proposing that he carry a gun around.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=4ccf8040-2666-4463-b73c-9e531dab20e8

Police are murdering people with Tazers. Yes, everyone should have the right to bear arms.

 

[backmarkerducati]

How many dead in the 31 shootings, in those 17 years?

I'd say the ones scared of a boogeyman are those seeking irrational legislative changes to cure a problem which just isn't that big to begin with.

So what is the number where it is a problem for you?

edit, BTW it was not 31 it is 95 starting in 1997 but not all resulted in a death, by my count 196 deaths, mostly kids. This does not of course include any of the other public place mass shootings like malls etc.

So how may is too many, hit us with a number?

 

[AdRath]

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=4ccf8040-2666-4463-b73c-9e531dab20e8

Police are murdering people with Tazers. Yes, everyone should have the right to bear arms.

So you want to be armed in order to shoot police if they tazer you? Really? Is that your argument here? And I thought we were having a rational conversation about gun control. :roll:

 

[mmmnaked]

So what is the number where it is a problem for you?

At least an order of magnitude higher than what's happening currently.

37,000 people killed themselves in the US last year. 10,000 died thanks to drinking and driving. How many died in freak mass shooting events? 50?

Yeah it's tragic when it happens, but it's statistically insignificant. If this were ANY other kind of situation besides a mass shooting, nobody would blink an eye. 50 dead in a year, out of 300 million? Jeez, what ELSE is on TV?

The majority of these acts are committed by mentally ill individuals, who displayed sings of it prior to carrying out the deeds.... and we're talking about guns?

 

[backmarkerducati]

So you want to be armed in order to shoot police if they tazer you? Really? Is that your argument here? And I thought we were having a rational conversation about gun control. :roll:

And if you are armed, they are not even going to bother to taze you. All before you get your hand on the peeshooter in your pants....

 

[AdRath]

The majority of these acts are committed by mentally ill individuals, who displayed sings of it prior to carrying out the deeds.... and we're talking about guns?

We are talking about restricting access to guns. The mentally ill shouldn't be stockpiling guns/ammo/body armour legally. That is the problem people want to take care of. Restricting access for those who shouldn't have it is not something that will effect the average responsible gun owner just as it doesn't here. If you want a gun you need to go through the vetting process. The problem lies in the fact that many gun owners in the states are some of the most paranoid people around. The government isn't coming for your guns. They want to prevent those who should never handle a weapon from doing so easily and legally.

Why does a citizen need a 30 plus round magazine? who are you going to war with?

 

[backmarkerducati]

At least an order of magnitude higher than what's happening currently.

37,000 people killed themselves in the US last year. 10,000 died thanks to drinking and driving. How many died in freak mass shooting events? 50?

Yeah it's tragic when it happens, but it's statistically insignificant. If this were ANY other kind of situation besides a mass shooting, nobody would blink an eye. 50 dead in a year, out of 300 million? Jeez, what ELSE is on TV?

The majority of these acts are committed by mentally ill individuals, who displayed sings of it prior to carrying out the deeds.... and we're talking about guns?

Sure and more kids die in pools than by guns but there are more guns than pools, we are all (well most) familiar with how statistics work. What NUMBER of dead is your do something breaking point.

 

[mmmnaked]

Sure and more kids die in pools than by guns but there are more guns than pools, we are all (well most) familiar with how statistics work. What NUMBER of dead is your do something breaking point.

Well if you recognize the numbers and still choose to cry about gun regulations for only 50 dead per year, in a country of 300 million, you're quite obviously the one afraid of a boogeyman. If I were an American today would I be worried about my kids dying in a school attack? About as much as I'd worry about them being struck by lightning.

Reasonable, logical conclusion.

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