Provincial politics

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Ontario was very different back then. It still had a manufacturing industry and the free trade agreement hadn't yet kicked in.

The idea of people working without the labourer getting their due as it says in the bible was offensive to some.

So they voted for a guy who promised he would keep his word and fire people putting them on UI (now called EI) and/or welfare. And he did exactly that so all those people couldn't participate in helping sustain/grow the economy.

Today Ontario has no manufacturing because it all went overseas.

As part of the great race to the bottom where the rich get richer and the poor and middle class get eviscerated there is not a lot other than menial jobs now which is why it will be a great surprise to many when real estate prices finally pop.

John Tory's great 70,000 jobs announcement for "young people" the other day came with a hell of a lot of qualifiers. What it is is over a period of "years" those jobs would be created as they reclaim the east don industrial land and replace it with condos. So a certain proportion would be for people working at coffee shops and McDonald's, some for construction workers (I'm assuming a new site counts as a job so existing workers will be counted as new workers). Then there are the people who provide wood and concrete and so forth, real estate agent for the condos, motorcycle thieves for the new population, etc. And you have 70,000 jobs. Over however many years. Could be as many as 25.

Hudak is another guy who will keep his promises. He is telling the truth when he says he will fire and slash. It is all right there in his platform.

Did you know GM doesn't pay any taxes to Oshawa? Now you do! Disgraceful.

So, speaking for myself here I've already been around for the last guy who did what he promised he would do, Hudak's old boss. So I don't really need a repeat of that.

My advice to you is to not vote for "the winner". Vote for the party that won't make your life worse than it is now.

Forget about "punishing". Whoever gets elected will affect your life for the next 5 years.
 
Rae asked public sector workers to step aside just a tiny bit for the common good. He got fried for that. That's the political climate I'm talking about. You can't win with that and 4 year short term strategies. It's hopeless.
 
Sunspark said:
I really don't get all the NDP hate.

Rae's government was during the worst recession since the depression. This is now almost 25 years since those days. He isn't running in this election.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown. I doubt the other parties would have done better with the recession.

Maybe time to get over it? Some of you weren't even born then.
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No, turncoat Rae, who now says he was "always a Liberal", is not involved. The NDP, however, are a party whose default position is to spend more money. Spending more money requires more revenue. More revenue, for government, means more taxes. This Province is in a position where it needs fiscal conservatism; not more taxation of an already over taxed populace. Unfortunately the Liberals have also demonstrated a propensity for additional taxation and the PCs are now led by a dogmatic conservative, rather than a fiscal conservative.

At this point I think that our best hope is a PC minority, with the Liberals in opposition to temper Hudak's obvious idiocy. Any attempt to actually engineer that result will, however, likely result in either a Liberal or PC majority.
 
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We live in a province where the growth industry is building the ghettos of the future, condos.

When nobody can afford the payments then they are just tenements.

I blame part of this on allowing non-citizen non-resident foreigners to own real estate here.

Australia allows it but at a higher tax rate.

That is a good idea!
 
harper won with like 30% of the votes
so 60% didn't want him in but because 30% was bigger than the next closest group, he won.
(exact numbers might be different)

I'd really like to see two votes on a ballot,
one for
one against

each candidate gets the sum of the 'for votes' minus the sum of the 'against votes'

I think with this you'd get a better representation of the public desire.
 
dasiffy said:
harper won with like 30% of the votes
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The CPC won with 40% of the popular vote and 54% of the seats. It is what it is, and that's the way the system works.

On the other hand, there was a lot of talk about the NDP and Liberals joining forces to take the majority, which IMO is even less "democratic". Folks who voted for the Libs and NDP didn't vote for a coalition, they voted for the individual parties.

I think we're naturally most closely affected by municipal policy and then provincial policy. We should vote on that basis, not on the basis of "great leader". Nevermind who takes the top seat, make sure the local guy is representing your views.
 
Oh and speaking of tyranny of the majority.. look at the US elections. Obama won over Romey 51% / 47% of the popular vote. That's 61 million Romney voters, representing 150+ million Americans, who didn't get what they wanted. What does a New York / Toronto lawyer have in common with a Texan / Albertan rancher? Is it ever going to be possible for both their views to be represented by one leader? Heh.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
No, turncoat Rae, who now says he was "always a Liberal", is not involved. The NDP, however, are a party whose default position is to spend more money. Spending more money requires more revenue. More revenue, for government, means more taxes. This Province is in a position where it needs fiscal conservatism; not more taxation of an already over taxed populace. Unfortunately the Liberals have also demonstrated a propensity for additional taxation and the PCs are now led by a dogmatic conservative, rather than a fiscal conservative.

At this point I think that our best hope is a PC minority, with the Liberals in opposition to temper Hudak's obvious idiocy. Any attempt to actually engineer that result will, however, likely result in either a Liberal or PC majority.
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Minority governments are like oil and tire threads. Lots of talk but no one gets anywhere. However at this time a little "Let's just get along" might be for the best.

My snarky attitude towards the NDP is they want to take money from those who have proven they can handle it and give it to those who have proven they can't. That said, the brutal near monopolies of large companies makes a poor base of encouragement for the working stiff. If the NDP would come up with a plan for making the unemployable beneficial to society I could maybe give them some support. They also have to admit that if they try to dictate to a multinational the multinational will basically tell them to F-O and leave the province and country.

Until the Feds bring back protectionism we have to accept our weak position. If a multinational asks the NDP "What has Ontario got that we can't get somewhere else?" what is the reply?

Growth of profit is more addictive and hazardous than drug addiction and some companies are profit crack junkies.
 
I'm ok with all multinationals leaving Ontario. They're all addicted to taxpayer subsidized corporate welfare and return little to the community (e.g. General Motors does not pay any taxes to the city it is located in.) Most of their stuff is all subcontracted and made in China now so really all they are is a form of investment fund.

We don't need logos. There's always another investment fund with a logo to tell us how wonderful we have it with them.
 
mmmnaked said:
The CPC won with 40% of the popular vote and 54% of the seats. It is what it is, and that's the way the system works.

On the other hand, there was a lot of talk about the NDP and Liberals joining forces to take the majority, which IMO is even less "democratic". Folks who voted for the Libs and NDP didn't vote for a coalition, they voted for the individual parties.

I think we're naturally most closely affected by municipal policy and then provincial policy. We should vote on that basis, not on the basis of "great leader". Nevermind who takes the top seat, make sure the local guy is representing your views.
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The theory is that your locally elected representative carries your local concerns to the Federal/Provincial level. The reality of the situation, as so well demonstrated by the likes of Stephen Harper, is that the leader sets policy and anyone who objects can find another party. The local guy is essentially meaningless, unless part of the inner circle.

nobbie48 said:
Minority governments are like oil and tire threads. Lots of talk but no one gets anywhere. However at this time a little "Let's just get along" might be for the best.

My snarky attitude towards the NDP is they want to take money from those who have proven they can handle it and give it to those who have proven they can't. That said, the brutal near monopolies of large companies makes a poor base of encouragement for the working stiff. If the NDP would come up with a plan for making the unemployable beneficial to society I could maybe give them some support. They also have to admit that if they try to dictate to a multinational the multinational will basically tell them to F-O and leave the province and country.

Until the Feds bring back protectionism we have to accept our weak position. If a multinational asks the NDP "What has Ontario got that we can't get somewhere else?" what is the reply?

Growth of profit is more addictive and hazardous than drug addiction and some companies are profit crack junkies.
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That's the wonderful thing about most majority governments (Harper again being the counter example here); they enforce the concept of co-operation. The more idiotically out-to-lunch ideas end up on the cutting room floor.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
The theory is that your locally elected representative carries your local concerns to the Federal/Provincial level. The reality of the situation, as so well demonstrated by the likes of Stephen Harper, is that the leader sets policy and anyone who objects can find another party. The local guy is essentially meaningless, unless part of the inner circle.
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We are also beginning to see the same thing from Justin Trudeau. In relation to pro life/pro choice.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trud...rtion-candidates-from-liberal-party-1.1823458



Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
I will never vote NDP provincially. Bob Rae who was responsible for the skyrocketing auto/motorcycle insurance rates with that no-fault garbage he started.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
My position is that you vote for the party that best supports your personal goals. Don't bother thinking about strategic voting, or any similar garbage. All that does, is maintain the status quo of morally bankrupt politicians. If no one supports your ideals then don't go for the lesser evil. If presented with the opportunity to voice your displeasure, via something like a declined ballot, avail yourself of it. Don't sit on the couch at home when you should be voting.
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I hear you and generally would agree with your statement ... yet knowing that giving a vote to someone other than the three is a wasted vote.

I keep hearing NDP this and that, never again ..... I moved here in 1999 so I never felt their policies. I did feel Mr. Harris, Eves, McGuinty, Wynne's programs and it has been painful so far, let me tell you that. You cannot blame people like me who will vote NDP. Maybe they will make a mess out of it, and maybe I will never vote for them again ... but that is no different than the the other two who lied, robbed and threatened the well being of the health and education system in the province after they got my vote .....
 
peterm15 said:
We are also beginning to see the same thing from Justin Trudeau. In relation to pro life/pro choice.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trud...rtion-candidates-from-liberal-party-1.1823458

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
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Yes, and something else too. Trudeau said that they wouldn't go negative. I guess that didn't mean anything, because they've started the negative campaigning. Very disappointing.

mxs said:
I hear you and generally would agree with your statement ... yet knowing that giving a vote to someone other than the three is a wasted vote.

I keep hearing NDP this and that, never again ..... I moved here in 1999 so I never felt their policies. I did feel Mr. Harris, Eves, McGuinty, Wynne's programs and it has been painful so far, let me tell you that. You cannot blame people like me who will vote NDP. Maybe they will make a mess out of it, and maybe I will never vote for them again ... but that is no different than the the other two who lied, robbed and threatened the well being of the health and education system in the province after they got my vote .....
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Harris was a direct result of the previous recession, and Rae's method of 'handling' it.
 
RetroGrouch said:
I will never vote NDP provincially. Bob Rae who was responsible for the skyrocketing auto/motorcycle insurance rates with that no-fault garbage he started.
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Did you know other provinces have it too, as well as a whole bunch of American states? But for provinces, in addition to Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba and Saskatchewan also have it as well in degrees. BC to a lesser extent. It seems unfair to blame Bob Rae for a reach into additional Canadian provinces and American states.

Here is a link where the deputy minister of industry at that time wrote an ed-op in the Star recently where he explains how Rae's failed premiership myth is a false belief system. Those who came to Ontario after might find it an interesting read: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...led_premiership_is_a_myth.html?app=noRedirect
 
For me, the reason I won't vote NDP has nothing to do with Rae, although I do remember that time well, and everything thing to do with the NDP tax and spend policy. I want a small government that taxes me as little as possible and otherwise leaves me the hell alone. The less I hear about my government the better.
 
I appreciate your honesty Diesel. This is a much better reason because it is based on how you feel and not because of Voldemort.
 
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