Provincial politics

Forum Sponsor
Can we start a decline party?

I had this other idea (this is based on my becoming a future billionaire).
Run a "Do nothing" party. Every candidate vows to absolutely **** all. No show everything. Just sit at wherever you were before, fire all your staff and forward the paycheques off as party donations - that refeeds the marketing machine.
Recalls initiated if any member actually does something.
It's as close to an empty seat as you can get for now I guess.

I can't wait for tomorrow to get into the poll and say really loud "I'd like to decline my ballot please".
 
eljay said:
Can we start a decline party?

I had this other idea (this is based on my becoming a future billionaire).
Run a "Do nothing" party. Every candidate vows to absolutely **** all. No show everything. Just sit at wherever you were before, fire all your staff and forward the paycheques off as party donations - that refeeds the marketing machine.
Recalls initiated if any member actually does something.
It's as close to an empty seat as you can get for now I guess.

I can't wait for tomorrow to get into the poll and say really loud "I'd like to decline my ballot please".
Click to expand...

Someone already started the "None of the Above Party." At the Federal level you have the Rhinoceros Party but they aren't in all ridings and are fairly heavily centred in Quebec these days.
 
Schneller said:
It's called a discussion, and we can do both.

it seems that Wynne's strategy of saying that a vote for the NDP turns into a vote for PC, is working. Today's poll indicates a shift towards the Liberals.
Click to expand...

If libs win again this time, Ontarian deserve every billion waste that has happened and more. I will encourage libs to waste another 10 billions just for the heck of it if they win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Rob MacLennan said:
I suggested that people look into the Green Party earlier in the thread, because they seemed to have been forgotten in the rush. It's always best to cast a vote if there's someone with a platform you can support. Unfortunately I can't.
Click to expand...

The Green party reminds me of the "Little Johnny" joke where little Johnny overhears his big brother telling buddies that he gave his girlfriend the ultimatum of "Come across or walk home".

Little Johnny thought it sounded cool so he offered little Suzie a ride in his wagon. When they got to the park he says "Come across or walk home."

Little Suzie says "OK"

Little Johnny says "Oh-Oh! What do I do now?"

That said I'm leaning towards the Green Party.

1) We need to think small "g" green and get more people thinking it. After reading The Limits to growth it becomes apparent we have to do more if we expect to enjoy life as we know it for more than another generation or two.

2) Declining sends a message of no one being good enough but doesn't let them know what they need to change. Electoral pouting. It's like when your wife chills the house faster than the air conditioner but when asked "What's wrong" replies "Nothing". So you're OK with me banging your sister?

3) Spoiling means the voter doesn't understand the process. That means they probably don't understand the issues either. Let sleeping dogs lie.

4) Not voting = Scratching my belly and drinking beer is more important than what's happening to my community.

The platform of the GP and the ideals stated in LTG are pie in the sky. They are based on everyone suddenly seeing the light and becoming one with all creation. Hallelujah brothers and sisters! Ain't going to happen until the GP or similar parties get enough votes to make people realize they do have valid concerns, even if they don't have viable solutions.

Recognizing a problem is the first step in solving it.
 
Last edited:
fastar1 said:
Word is the 'decline your vote' media campaign was created by a Conservative campaigner, and it will help the PCs. Though he says he is "disillusioned" with them.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...vement-launched-by-disillusioned-conservative
Click to expand...

It's been making the rounds that this 'decline your ballot campaign' is some sort of PC conspiracy. For the record I declined to vote, for my first and only time, during the 2003 Provincial election. I simply believe that it's a viable option if you have no one who represents your views, and are tired of choosing the less destruction option.
 
nobbie48 said:
The Green party reminds me of the "Little Johnny" joke where little Johnny overhears his big brother telling buddies that he gave his girlfriend the ultimatum of "Come across or walk home".

Little Johnny thought it sounded cool so he offered little Suzie a ride in his wagon. When they got to the park he says "Come across or walk home."

Little Suzie says "OK"

Little Johnny says "Oh-Oh! What do I do now?"

That said I'm leaning towards the Green Party.

1) We need to think small "g" green and get more people thinking it. After reading The Limits to growth it becomes apparent we have to do more if we expect to enjoy life as we know it for more than another generation or two.

2) Declining sends a message of no one being good enough but doesn't let them know what they need to change. Electoral pouting. It's like when your wife chills the house faster than the air conditioner but when asked "What's wrong" replies "Nothing". So you're OK with me banging your sister?

3) Spoiling means the voter doesn't understand the process. That means they probably don't understand the issues either. Let sleeping dogs lie.

4) Not voting = Scratching my belly and drinking beer is more important than what's happening to my community.

The platform of the GP and the ideals stated in LTG are pie in the sky. They are based on everyone suddenly seeing the light and becoming one with all creation. Hallelujah brothers and sisters! Ain't going to happen until the GP or similar parties get enough votes to make people realize they do have valid concerns, even if they don't have viable solutions.

Recognizing a problem is the first step in solving it.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I read the Green platform as see buzzwords like "dedicated revenue stream", and know exactly what they mean. We heard the same form the Liberals.

I'm hoping that a substantial number of declined ballots, especially in hotly contested ridings, would have politicos asking how they could obtain those votes. At the very least my hope is that it would spark a discussion. I'd rather that the comes to us, cap in hand, than have the electorate look like Oliver Twist. It's time they remembered who drives the wagon and who is supposed to pull it.
 
Riceburner said:
Declining is useless. Choose one or why bother going to the polling station?
Click to expand...

I think the other parties would be more concerned if they saw a party like the Greens gaining a lot of percentage points of actually winning a seat. I doubt that declining your ballot even registers on the various party's radars as the polling numbers come in.

Want to send a message? Vote green or another "outside" party. If enough people voted for a party outside of the big 3 it would get noticed.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Unfortunately I read the Green platform as see buzzwords like "dedicated revenue stream", and know exactly what they mean. We heard the same form the Liberals.
Click to expand...
You say that like it's a bad thing.

If you're concerned about voting someone in who won't follow up on their promises, note that the Greens have no track record to be suspicious of yet, and besides, they don't stand a chance of being able to follow through anyways given their powerlessness!
 
fastar1 said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.

If you're concerned about voting someone in who won't follow up on their promises, note that the Greens have no track record to be suspicious of yet, and besides, they don't stand a chance of being able to follow through anyways given their powerlessness!
Click to expand...

No thanks. I'm waiting for a party that believes in a basic social safety net, universal health care, and education as necessities, and understands that we need to support those things within our means rather than just coming back to the taxpayer every time they want more toys. A 'dedicated revenue stream' that tied to what taxes were originally intended for, rather than using the 'general coffers' concept would also be appreciated. Tax us for a specific need and then apply that tax money to the intended need. You know, like gas taxes actually being used to support roads and transportation.

*EDIT* And no, that doesn't mean NEW gas taxes.
 
Last edited:
Rob MacLennan said:
No thanks. I'm waiting for a party that believes in a basic social safety net, universal health care, and education as necessities, and understands that we need to support those things within our means rather than just coming back to the taxpayer every time they want more toys. A 'dedicated revenue stream' that tied to what taxes were originally intended for, rather than using the 'general coffers' concept would also be appreciated. Tax us for a specific need and then apply that tax money to the intended need. You know, like gas taxes actually being used to support roads and transportation.

*EDIT* And no, that doesn't mean NEW gas taxes.
Click to expand...

If we all switched to electric cars (Hypothetical) we would still need roads but there would be little gas tax income as there would be little in sales.

How much is spent on roads in ON including municipal, provincial and federal? How much is collected in gas taxes and licenses? I recall some numbers showing them not being to far out of balance.

9 more hours and almost a 3 way tie in the polls.

Any pools on how long this assumed minority is going to last?
 
I'm happily voting Green up here in Dufferin-Caledon riding. Pretty blue up here overall usually, but i read somewhere that the Greens are a close second in polls this time around- thanks to the strong local opposition to the proposed mega-quarry and people getting a little more educated on issues concerning the environment (plus- while not perfect by any means- i don't think their platform is as crazy as some conservative-types would have us believe).
Would be cool to have at least one Green party candidate get elected in Ontario- even if it was just a single seat protest win. Can't be any worse than the alternatives.
 
knucklesound said:
I'm happily voting Green up here in Dufferin-Caledon riding. Pretty blue up here overall usually, but i read somewhere that the Greens are a close second in polls this time around- thanks to the strong local opposition to the proposed mega-quarry and people getting a little more educated on issues concerning the environment (plus- while not perfect by any means- i don't think their platform is as crazy as some conservative-types would have us believe).
Would be cool to have at least one Green party candidate get elected in Ontario- even if it was just a single seat protest win. Can't be any worse than the alternatives.
Click to expand...

The tough life of a greener. Do any of the Green supporters live in big houses made with concrete? (But they don't want a quarry) NIMBYs

Re one seat, if it's a tight minority situation an independent carries a lot of weight. That power can also make them look like a total whore if misapplied.
 
nobbie48 said:
If we all switched to electric cars (Hypothetical) we would still need roads but there would be little gas tax income as there would be little in sales.

How much is spent on roads in ON including municipal, provincial and federal? How much is collected in gas taxes and licenses? I recall some numbers showing them not being to far out of balance.

9 more hours and almost a 3 way tie in the polls.

Any pools on how long this assumed minority is going to last?
Click to expand...

When the world changes, then government has to change in order to keep pace. That is not our current situation.

I was discussing the total cost of infrastructure with another member, recently, and we shuddered at the possible cost of a FOI request. Some people and organizations say that we don't pay enough. Others say that we overpay. With the use of general coffers we quite simply cannot really know. That's why I prefer, whenever possible, that taxes that were meant to be dedicated to a function actually be dedicated to that function. With the convolutions and obfuscations of today's governments how can we ever know if we're getting value for our taxes?

A funny thing occurred to me: I don't recall all of this "unelected Premier" crap coming up when Harris stepped down and Eves took over. Eves made Hudak the Minister of Consumer and Business Services.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
When the world changes, then government has to change in order to keep pace. That is not our current situation.

I was discussing the total cost of infrastructure with another member, recently, and we shuddered at the possible cost of a FOI request. Some people and organizations say that we don't pay enough. Others say that we overpay. With the use of general coffers we quite simply cannot really know. That's why I prefer, whenever possible, that taxes that were meant to be dedicated to a function actually be dedicated to that function. With the convolutions and obfuscations of today's governments how can we ever know if we're getting value for our taxes?

A funny thing occurred to me: I don't recall all of this "unelected Premier" crap coming up when Harris stepped down and Eves took over. Eves made Hudak the Minister of Consumer and Business Services.
Click to expand...

Hijacking a bit but one of the biggest ripoffs is market value assessment on houses. two same sized house in the same area on the same sized lots but one has marble tiles, granite counter tops and designer decor. It pays a higher tax although it doesn't cost the municipality any more to maintain services.

Consider parking downtown and the price to park is $20 a day for a Chev, $30 a day for a Buick and $40 a day for a M-B, all for the same sized space. That's as logical as market value assessment.

Taxes should be like expense reports. You get reimbursed for what what you spend on company business. If you want to take a buddy to lunch it's on your own dime.

Condominiums have a better set of rules than the government. An operating budget and looking forward, a reserve fund. No slush fund.

Time to trudge up the street and make an X. This is the most I've been involved in election discussions. It is very challenging when either all of the options are really really good or really really bad.

I don't know if the hoi polloi is going to start taking an interest or if they see it as "We are screwed regardless" and total apathy sets in.

My dartboard forecast: Liberal minority with another election in 2 years.
 
Last edited:
nobbie48 said:
Hijacking a bit but one of the biggest ripoffs is market value assessment on houses. two same sized house in the same area on the same sized lots but one has marble tiles, granite counter tops and designer decor. It pays a higher tax although it doesn't cost the municipality any more to maintain services.

Consider parking downtown and the price to park is $20 a day for a Chev, $30 a day for a Buick and $40 a day for a M-B, all for the same sized space. That's as logical as market value assessment.

Taxes should be like expense reports. You get reimbursed for what what you spend on company business. If you want to take a buddy to lunch it's on your own dime.

Condominiums have a better set of rules than the government. An operating budget and looking forward, a reserve fund. No slush fund.
Click to expand...

Our taxes are also based on presumed ability to pay. People who can pay more, do pay more. The presumption is that someone who owns a more valuable property is able to pay more, and therefore more is asked of them. It is not based on consumption, any more than is income tax.
 
My property taxes went up quite a bit based on reassessment. My ability to pay the additional cost has not kept pace. Clearly the model is flawed.
 
Yes, it tells every party the number of people that don't want any of them at all.
When win/loss margins are in the fractions of percents, this swing vote is very valuable. A massive swing vote shows how much margin is available.
Example: there's always some riding where someone wins by only a handful of votes, literally in the dozens, sometimes less than a dozen. Not imagine that riding had 2% declined and that 2% is say 1000 votes. That's a big **** you to every person that lost.
Also, if you have a moral compass and really can't back any candidate, it is the most valid option. Voting against someone is morally reprehensible to people who live their lives according to what they believe, because it means that they are voting for someone that all else equal they would be against.
I'm a good example. I will happily spit in the face of every person running in any election. The fact that they are on the ballot disgusts me and makes me think they are a sub-human species and should be shunned from society like you would any other parasite. Take away their paycheques, pensions, ability to tax. You think they would be running? Nope. They have no other option but to live from the avails of others. But I digress.
I cannot vote for any of them because they disgust me, so I cannot use my vote for the "least worst" option. Because to me there isn't one.
Ideally, there would be a "none of the above" option for me without a name attached to it. So declined is for me taking the highest moral ground.

Riceburner said:
Ok, declined ballots are counted, but does it actually influence anything?
Click to expand...
Forum Sponsor
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom