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Ontario should make winter tires mandatory.
- Thread starter SunnY S
- Start date
Malks
Well-known member
I guess my parents were the exception because I can remember my father putting snow tires on our cars as far back as the early 60's. He started doing this when we lived in Quebec City and then continued to do so when we moved up to Dryden in northwestern Ontario. After surviving a T-bone collision caused when he slid through a stop sign, he began to mount four studded snows on his car every winter while we lived up there.
When I started to drive in the early 70's I naturally continued with the practice of installing four snows on my cars for winter driving. However, my main reason for doing this was to make it easier to get to the hills during a snowstorm in order to experience the best ski conditions. I also drove a '73 Camaro with loads of power and near zero weight over the rear drive wheels, so snow tires were pretty much mandatory in order to get out of the driveway.
For the past 22 years I have lived in Orangeville and commuted to TO for work. In all my years of driving I have never been involved in a collision, or become stuck due to poor winter driving conditions. I might just be lucky, or it might be the snow tires, but based on my experience I would never drive any vehicle in the winter without snow tires.
As much as I don't like the nanny state laws, here is another reason making it law is useful: work vehicles.
I put snow tires on all my own vehicles for piece of mind. However, at least at my company, whenever we need to travel for work we are required to take a work truck. Until last year these trucks were never equipped with snow tires. After enough bitching from the staff we got some but if they had been mandatory, it wouldn't have been an issue. I would imagine people that work for smaller companies or those with tighter budgets probably never get snows.
We use these trucks to drive as far north as Sault Ste. Marie with no snows until last year. The pickups weren't so bad since pickup tires tend to be pretty knobby anyway but if we got stuck with one of the minivans or something with summer tires on it, things could get fishy.
I put snow tires on all my own vehicles for piece of mind. However, at least at my company, whenever we need to travel for work we are required to take a work truck. Until last year these trucks were never equipped with snow tires. After enough bitching from the staff we got some but if they had been mandatory, it wouldn't have been an issue. I would imagine people that work for smaller companies or those with tighter budgets probably never get snows.
We use these trucks to drive as far north as Sault Ste. Marie with no snows until last year. The pickups weren't so bad since pickup tires tend to be pretty knobby anyway but if we got stuck with one of the minivans or something with summer tires on it, things could get fishy.
Again. The problem was that there was no melting. Belt came thru and caught a few drivers unaware. The big problem came with hundreds of cars doing 5km/hr and packing down the snow and creating glare ice. Traction was *****. Snows or nos.
If there had been brine down (as there was to the west by woodstock and where it was still snowing) I think a lot of Fridays issues could have been mitagated.
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Nyx13
Guest
EXACTLY. Sorry but I grew up in Saskatchewan and Winter driving skills are an absolute must. I remember being out in a Geo Metro convertible in a snow storm that caused the RCMP to close the hwys. Made it from Saskatoon to Kindersley in that little bug - no snow tires, chains, etc. Just common sense and knowing HOW to drive in Winter conditions. A lot of drivers here are friggin clueless - Winter AND Summer.
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Nyx13
Guest
It also happened to be major ICE here, not just snow; so snow tires are not the perfect answer - and you still have stupid drivers to contend with. I saw more than enough of that during my 3+ hr (normally 40 minute) drive in it that day.
So first point in bold, its not a "study" per say, its the number of casualties in the province
The law came in effect, tires are mandatory. People are supposed to have them on, being old OR new. What they're looking at are the stats of accidents causing deaths in winter (loss of control, collision, etc) as a whole. Not just for "people who put on new winter tires". Even then as it was stated earlier, a new or used set of winters rides better than a no-seasons.
Just like you have motorcycle tires for track, some for street riding, some for touring, some for dirt..is that also an industry scam? Different rubber does have different properties in different weather conditions
2nd point in bold. How long do you use a set for though? Say you have no-seasons and winters... from what i read, from the time the tire is manufactured, it's suggested that tire but put IN SERVICE BEFORE 5-6 years from manufacturing date and retired after a maxiumum of 10 years with usage, from the same manufacturing date. (info taken off tire rack)
Now i dont know about you but i wear out my tires after maybe 3-4 years of usage on two sets. Which doesnt even get close to those numbers. I understand that i drive my car a lot (25-40k km a year). But even with half my driving, you simply double 3-4 years, and you still have safe-to-operate tires.
Yes (lol). And we have more than 3 times this number in ontario according to the same census. Taking wiki numbers (i know i know) and your numbers, i get close 11% immigrant population in quebec, and close to 23% in Ontario.
And when you immigrate to quebec, you will know from your VERY FIRST winter that snow is a reality. 15 cm make people tremble with fear in the GTA. 15 cm there is just another regular snowfall. Therefore you have a bigger percentage of people in Ontario who don't know how to drive when snow happens and will freak out as theyre not exposed to it on a regular basis. And that's on a much bigger population (8 million QC vs 12.8 million ON according to wiki) so potential lives saved are higher here.
But potential insurance claims are also higher. Another factor in our outrageous insurance costs.
{/big incoherent walls of text}
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Just to point out that I have seen more folks with winter tires that have gone off the road versus people without winter tires. Why? Because they think they can now drive like a dumbass since they have winters tires.
No amount of good winter tires will replace responsible driving.
I have driven since 1996 and never needed winter tires since I know how to drive in snow. 90% out there can’t even drive correctly in dry summer roads let alone winter roads.
If I were the government, I would get rid off all these private driving schools and just have a couple that correctly teach like Young Drivers of Canada. Making winter tires mandatory is cash grab and publicity stunt.
As well, your not any safer in these SUV compared to a car.
No amount of good winter tires will replace responsible driving.
I have driven since 1996 and never needed winter tires since I know how to drive in snow. 90% out there can’t even drive correctly in dry summer roads let alone winter roads.
If I were the government, I would get rid off all these private driving schools and just have a couple that correctly teach like Young Drivers of Canada. Making winter tires mandatory is cash grab and publicity stunt.
As well, your not any safer in these SUV compared to a car.
I don't really consider those old knobbies snow tires. Studded tires, sure, but they were very uncommon.
In any case, the point remains; more and more people are putting on winter tires every year, so where does this stupid "death of common sense" come from?
So first point in bold, its not a "study" per say, its the number of casualties in the province
The law came in effect, tires are mandatory. People are supposed to have them on, being old OR new. What they're looking at are the stats of accidents causing deaths in winter (loss of control, collision, etc) as a whole. Not just for "people who put on new winter tires". Even then as it was stated earlier, a new or used set of winters rides better than a no-seasons.
Just like you have motorcycle tires for track, some for street riding, some for touring, some for dirt..is that also an industry scam? Different rubber does have different properties in different weather conditions
2nd point in bold. How long do you use a set for though? Say you have no-seasons and winters... from what i read, from the time the tire is manufactured, it's suggested that tire but put IN SERVICE BEFORE 5-6 years from manufacturing date and retired after a maxiumum of 10 years with usage, from the same manufacturing date. (info taken off tire rack)
Now i dont know about you but i wear out my tires after maybe 3-4 years of usage on two sets. Which doesnt even get close to those numbers. I understand that i drive my car a lot (25-40k km a year). But even with half my driving, you simply double 3-4 years, and you still have safe-to-operate tires.
You don't get it. If everyone were forced to get new all-season tires, safety would also improve. So the newness factor has to be taken out of the equation in order to get a true indication of the collision reductions that winter tires (new OR used) bring over all season tires of the same condition.
As for mileage, I already said I do 1-2000km per winter. Oh and I almost forgot, fuel efficiency suffers on winter tires, adding to their cost.
I think insurance companies could play a larger part in this as well. Discount for snow tires, discounts for advanced driver training etc.
*EDIT*
I was going to recommend Green Diamond Tire but saw too many horror stories in a subsequent search.
*EDIT*
I was going to recommend Green Diamond Tire but saw too many horror stories in a subsequent search.
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Thats why i mentionned "study wasnt just for new tires" it was for all categories confounded. There already was a high percentage of people using winter tires in Quebec prior to the legislation of it so from one winter to another people didnt just "hop on new winters for all the population"
Now realistically, you cant make a whole population switch to what is "deemed" as the more dangerous alternatives, when you have ridiculous snow conditions. Maybe in southwest ontario you could make a study like that since our winters are weak, but you cant do that over there with all the snow they get.
New winter tires > used winter tires > new all-seasons > used all season.
No matter what happens. How stupid people are when they drive. Putting a winter boot on is less slippery than putting flip flops on as the winter boot is grippier.
Logically speaking. That might also explain why fuel efficiency isnt as good, as theyre designed for better grip on cold pavement.
There was enough of a run on winter tires that suppliers ran out of stock in the province. I think they drained neighbouring provinces too. So the newness factor weighs unfairly in favour of the outcome.
The reduced gas mileage is because of increased rolling resistance due to the snow or ice buildup on the road, wheel spin etc.. the tire tread has very little to do with it.
If anything, the lower tire pressure would be the main factor.
I don't notice any measurable difference, it's certainly no reason to shun winter tires.
If anything, the lower tire pressure would be the main factor.
I don't notice any measurable difference, it's certainly no reason to shun winter tires.
Of course they would. Say you have 75% of the population on winters, and the other 25% has to get some.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/trade14b-eng.htm
so lets round up, passenger vehicles to 4.6 million vehicles. (to give a chance to number). this would mean manufacturers would have to come up with 1.15 million sets of tires which comes up to 4.6 million individual winter tires all at once for the one province.
That WOULD set an industry in a shortage situation wouldn't you think?
@AGAVE, agreed. but have you ever touched a brand new winter tire, i find that a few of them have an actual stickiness to them... feels like some kind of a glue that last for a better part of the 1st season on them.
I believe that's just the release agent they put on the mould so the tire comes out easier.
The durometer rating is certainly lower, the compounds are much softer, like a broomball shoe!
At -30 degrees, a regular tire is pretty useless on ice.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't get winter tires.
Many companies do provide a discount for snow tires and driver training. However, it is very easy to reach the limit of their discounts. I know I did not get any discounts for the last riding or driving course I took. However, I do get 5% discount per vehicle that I put snow tires on. Although there is no way for them to be sure as they never check and I even asked what dates I must have snows on and they just said, "when there is snow".
Because people are cheap as ****. It's like asking why some people can't even be bothered to get a leather jacket for their bike gear or some gloves.
That article should be useless to anyone that has ever driven on anything slippery. All of those myths are idiotic and the proper techniques they discussed should be understood by anyone that has driven at least one winter here.
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