Ontario should make winter tires mandatory.

[Venom01]

You're rebuttal is simply amazing! All the valid points, logic backed up with facts and real life experience. hahahah lol

I think its time to admit you've been simply

Your post is so retarded it gave my phone down syndrome.


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[Venom01]

Well there you have it folks! Forget all the tire manufacturers in the world, the millions of dollars that has gone into research, development and tests. Forget the countless independent tests conducted all over the world since Venom01 decided they're garbage!

YEP, I have

Had you actually watched the video you would have understood that winter tires aren't only better in the snow. They are actually also better on dry pavement when the temperature is below 7 degrees as well as snow and ice. See its a different compound which improves your handling in the cold, along with stopping distance.

Why would I bother?

So you're driving around on worn out all seasons and you think you're better off than having a good set of winter tires? I guess theres no explaining it to you, but im sure everyone else is facepalming their face as they read this.
You made it cause you might be a better driver than average, however if you needed to stop quickly for whatever reason all seasons (especially ur worn out slicks) would get their ***** handed to them every time vs winter tires.

Stop quickly? When? When I'm not driving up some ones ***?

As for slowing down is all you need to do? Hmm go tell that to all the trucks out west in British Columbia as well as western United States. When you introduce hills into the equation you can be moving 5km/h, but with no traction you will start sliding until you come off a cliff. This is why chains are needed, however if you have winter tires you don't have to install chains, but hey what they hell do they know? Venom01 conducted his own research on flat land with a focus lmao

Years of it. I only have worn out tires now, but I know your so SMRT
So SMRT in fact now you even comparing city driving to truck drivers on the mountains out west, yeah almost the same thing.

No matter what point we make there is no convincing you. There is nothing worse than someone who thinks they're right and is close minded. Your mind is already made up. I just hope your attempt to save a couple hundred bucks doesn't cost someone their life.

Absolutely!
Let someone else think of the children.

Now get some sleep, you got that tire shop to run tomorow.
lol jks!

 

[SunnY S]

The big picture......

http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/story.aspx?ID=1834163

Last Friday's hectic afternoon commute was a brief reminder of the nasty driving conditions we can expect when winter arrives in a little over two weeks. The Ontario Hospital Association is joining safety advocates in encouraging drivers to take extra precautions on the road. And the OHA has a slew of statistics to back up its plea. The Ontario Injury Data Report shows motor vehicle collisions resulted in over 130-thousand emergency room visits and 32-hundred deaths between 2007 and '09. Winter crashes in Ontario also cost about 1-billion dollars each year, with winter road maintenance accounting for an additional 1-billion annually. OHA president and CEO Pat Campbell says "winter driving collisions can have an enormous impact on our health care system." He adds "wait times can increase, hospital beds can be occupied for longer periods of time, and the cost ends up affecting all Ontarians."

 

[fastar1]

The big picture......

http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/story.aspx?ID=1834163

Last Friday's hectic afternoon commute was a brief reminder of the nasty driving conditions we can expect when winter arrives in a little over two weeks. The Ontario Hospital Association is joining safety advocates in encouraging drivers to take extra precautions on the road. And the OHA has a slew of statistics to back up its plea. The Ontario Injury Data Report shows motor vehicle collisions resulted in over 130-thousand emergency room visits and 32-hundred deaths between 2007 and '09. Winter crashes in Ontario also cost about 1-billion dollars each year, with winter road maintenance accounting for an additional 1-billion annually. OHA president and CEO Pat Campbell says "winter driving collisions can have an enormous impact on our health care system." He adds "wait times can increase, hospital beds can be occupied for longer periods of time, and the cost ends up affecting all Ontarians."

There you go then. Mandating winter tires on the 10 million licensed vehicles in the province would force people to spend $200 million per year AT LEAST. This is assuming they use their tires completely before they dry out, and that they change their tires back and forth themselves every year.

This would reduce collisions by 2-5% AT MOST based on the flawed Quebec data, which adds up to a savings of $20 to $50 million on the one billion annual cost of crashes in Ontario. So a clear net cost, for little benefit.

Keep digging Sunny. At this rate, you're starting to make it sound like winer tires should be banned! :laughing3:

 

[unL33T]

I can definitely feel the difference when I have snows on.

I bet half the people that are saying you don't need snows are the same people driving 40 kph on the highway as soon as a few snow flakes come down and saying everyone else driving the normal speed needs to slow down because of the snow.

I will, however, agree that some models of all seasons work pretty good in snow.

 

[sadrik]

While I wish more people ran with winter tires in winter, I don't want to see it become law because then it may mess with winter motorcycling.

I discovered that while Germany has a mandatory winter tire law, they exempt motorcycles. I can't expect that same exemption in Ontario.

 

[spankayf]

10 pages only in Canada and clearly riding season is now over

 

[unL33T]

I have to wonder how many quebec drivers end up not driving at all because they don't have winter tires. that would cut down on collisions. hey, that's it, ban driving in winter and there won't be any collisions due to poor conditions.

Whenever my gf's family is traveling to/from the US in winter they end up with big problems when there is a snow storm because they end up closing all the roads because there's 2-3 inches of snow on the ground instead of just clearing it. Last year they had a 10 hr drive turn into 18 because every time they tried to get on a different road, it was closed. They said the roads weren't bad at all.

While I wish more people ran with winter tires in winter, I don't want to see it become law because then it may mess with winter motorcycling.

I discovered that while Germany has a mandatory winter tire law, they exempt motorcycles. I can't expect that same exemption in Ontario.

There are scooter winter tires available. Maybe they'd start selling them for bikes.

 

[Jayv]

While I wish more people ran with winter tires in winter, I don't want to see it become law because then it may mess with winter motorcycling.

I agree.

Bottom line even if 100% of GTA drivers were driving around in Land Rover's with winter tires you'd still get the gong show when snow and ice appear on our roads.

Root of the problem, bad drivers + joke of a driving test. Fix this problem first, and the majority of winter driving problems will disappear.

 

[Kri$han]

No matter what point we make there is no convincing you. There is nothing worse than someone who thinks they're right and is close minded. Your mind is already made up. I just hope your attempt to save a couple hundred bucks doesn't cost someone their life.

What's that famous quote about arguing with people on the internet?!

Haha...good points here made for both sides. I didn't invest in Winter tyres until I started to run dedicated (high-ish performance) summer tyres, because I had "All Seasons". My opinion of "All Seasons" is that they are a jack of all trades tyre, but master of none.

Can you get by reasonably safely with all seasons? Of course! Will your driving experience be better, (arguably) safer, and definitely with more control with dedicated summer and winter tyres?! Undoubtedly. The key is to drive according to road conditions and the capabilities of your vehicle. With snow (and summer) tyres, the capabilities of your vehicle are increased, so if you have the means, I'd highly recommend.

 

[ViperZ]

Can you get by reasonably safely with all seasons? Of course! Will your driving experience be better, (arguably) safer, and definitely with more control with dedicated summer and winter tyres?! Undoubtedly. The key is to drive according to road conditions and the capabilities of your vehicle. With snow (and summer) tyres, the capabilities of your vehicle are increased, so if you have the means, I'd highly recommend.

You have some really good reasons to own winter tires in your post. Well, most of you people do, but you keep forgetting one simple thing. IMHO, making winter tires in Ontario mandatory will make the crash statistics worse, not better. Why? Simple. GTA drivers. Undoubtedtly winter tires offer superior performance compared to all-season tires in low-temperature conditions, in snow and in rain conditions. But you see, that advantage can only be applied by a good driver who knows how to drive in winter conditions (and most of those already don't need winter tires). The problem GTA drivers is that no one gives a crap about road conditions and other drivers. They text, drink, eat, smoke, do whatever behind the wheel but drive the car. The accelerate like crazy, slam their brakes, etc etc, but not drive smoothly. They hog the left lane, and as a result people speed in the right/merging lanes. With all this happening, winter tires will offer no additional protection. When someone is texting+eating+smoking+drinking coffee while driving, then they slam on the brakes - well, it's too late then, and even winter tires will go into the skid. By adding winter tires into the equation, it will be a confidence booster for those clowns who do everything but drive, they think that their vehicle will stop faster when they slam on the brakes in the last second. They'll speed even more in snow/rain condition falsely assuming that winter tires will grip like summer tires on dry asphalt.

So IMHO making winter tires mandatory is a waste of time and money. Improve driver education first, close the driver training loopholes like people who have no clue how to drive and go up north to get their G in some rural town with no highways, then come back and drive in GTA. Introduce stricter laws against distracted drivers. Enforce left lane being a passing/fast lane. Enforce diamond lane rules. Making winter tires mandatory will work in areas where there is a good driving culture, not in a GTA zoo, where most Ontario drivers live anyway.

 

[Aslan]

There you go then. Mandating winter tires on the 10 million licensed vehicles in the province would force people to spend $200 million per year AT LEAST. This is assuming they use their tires completely before they dry out, and that they change their tires back and forth themselves every year.

This would reduce collisions by 2-5% AT MOST based on the flawed Quebec data, which adds up to a savings of $20 to $50 million on the one billion annual cost of crashes in Ontario. So a clear net cost, for little benefit.

Mandating winter tires would only incur a cost for vehicles that don't go into hibernation for the winter and don't already use them. Not all vehicles. If anything, I think mandating their use for all fleet and rental vehicles would be acceptable. The 'cost' is also a one-shot deal, and should be balanced against multi-year benefits.

On the benefit side, the Quebec data is only on reported collisions attributed to the tires. Not factored are single-vehicle damage that owners deal with themselves, hit&runs, minor dings where two drivers agree on a cash settlement, injuries outside the vehicle by people trying to get them unstuck, or traffic chaos caused by vehicles that can't get up hills or spin out and block a lane for an hour. It could end up being a wash if all costs could be figured.

Heck, maybe if the cops gave out Stunt Driving tickets for anyone sliding around on inappropriate tires in the winter all would be well. *duck*

 

[Venom01]

This whole thread is just useless. Even my semi troll/semi personal opinions I've posted don't even help for the anti winter tire mandate is utterly useless. I've never seen so many people put an effort to convince others why their right.

Why are you wasting your time time doing this when you should be writing your MP about your concerns. It still may fall on deaf ears (or not) but at least in the long run it's going to someone who has a chance of doing something about it.

I don't like the idea of making them law to have at all but I can't nor would I ever stop your from trying.

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[ViperZ]

Venom, the idea of a discussion board is to discuss a topic of interest by interested individuals. If you're so much interested in something, you're obviously more than welcome to write to your MP (MPP in this case). If you're not interested in a productive discussion and consider it a waste of your valuable time, why bother writing at all?

 

[Venom01]

If you're not interested in a productive discussion

Which a good 3/4 of this thread is not

This is my signature

 

[AdRath]

I bet half the people that are saying you don't need snows are the same people driving 40 kph on the highway as soon as a few snow flakes come down and saying everyone else driving the normal speed needs to slow down because of the snow.

I bet a good portion of those who blast past on the highway with winter tires are the same that ended up in the ditch a few miles down the road because they think they don't need to slow down in bad conditions. Aren't generalizations fun?

 

[fastar1]

Mandating winter tires would only incur a cost for vehicles that don't go into hibernation for the winter and don't already use them. Not all vehicles. If anything, I think mandating their use for all fleet and rental vehicles would be acceptable. The 'cost' is also a one-shot deal, and should be balanced against multi-year benefits.

On the benefit side, the Quebec data is only on reported collisions attributed to the tires. Not factored are single-vehicle damage that owners deal with themselves, hit&runs, minor dings where two drivers agree on a cash settlement, injuries outside the vehicle by people trying to get them unstuck, or traffic chaos caused by vehicles that can't get up hills or spin out and block a lane for an hour. It could end up being a wash if all costs could be figured.

Heck, maybe if the cops gave out Stunt Driving tickets for anyone sliding around on inappropriate tires in the winter all would be well. *duck*

OK, some people already use winters, true. Let's factor that in.
http://www.auto123.com/en/news/winter-tires-across-canada?artid=126028
So 63% of Ontario vehicles don't use winter tires, in a vehicle population of 10.6 million. That's 6.7 million vehicles. Maybe 1/10th of them are summer-only vehicles, so let's say a nice round 6 million people would have to buy winter tires for their cars.

The cheapest way (as unrealistic as it is) is to just buy $200 steelies, and expect each owner will mount them themselves, and assume that their summer and winter tires will wear out before they dry rot. That's $20 a year over 10 years before the steelies are garbage, so that's still $120 million in costs PER YEAR, vs. $20-$50 million in reduced crashes.

You figure all the extra fender benders and whatever else you made up accounts for the difference of $70-$100 million? Not very likely! In any cases, those incidents that aren't reported, are paid by each individual out of their own pocket for their own incompetence. Why should it even figure into the societal cost comparison?

 

[Venom01]

I bet a good portion of those who blast past on the highway with winter tires are the same that ended up in the ditch a few miles down the road because they think they don't need to slow down in bad conditions. Aren't generalizations fun?

Watch out! I made a similar comparison and somehow it turned into me thinking my worn out all season were better then winter tires. Apparently the reading skills on this forum are not quite top notch.

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[LePhillou]

You figure all the extra fender benders and whatever else you made up accounts for the difference of $70-$100 million? Not very likely! In any cases, those incidents that aren't reported, are paid by each individual out of their own pocket for their own incompetence. Why should it even figure into the societal cost comparison?

I wonder if 20-50 million includes all the lawsuits, benefits paid by insurance for physical injury and rehab, etc

 

[Red Zeder]

been driving in the snowbelt daily for 23 yrs at least where snow happens almost daily and never had snow tires or an accident...i didnt feel i needed them. i would install new all seasons sometimes at the beginning of winter which would really help but never snows. we had a saying about 4 wheel drives....it just puts you in deeper !
salt causing wet snow is way worse than dry snow
no doubt some cannot handle driving in winter, with or without snows, but mandating snows is just a little above and beyond.
slow down and take your time...nothing fast...lots o space between cars....realize your traction and driving capabilities and drive accordingly....maybe take a quick physics lesson ...
think about not driving