R3 has ABS, Gear Indicator and all of them have fuel gauges. Plenty of high end bikes have no fuel gauge.
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Motorcycle industry is in deep trouble and needs help fast
- Thread starter Lightcycle
- Start date
R3 has ABS, Gear Indicator and all of them have fuel gauges. Plenty of high end bikes have no fuel gauge.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
*cough* ducati monster 821
boyoboy
Well-known member
gear indicator and fuel gauge? I don't need, or want, either !
Im feeling "kinda" like an instigator....lol happy new year !
I think is simple:
- I ride because my dad rode, i bet that many if not most in here are in the same boat - so if you are a dad, get your kids to ride. Mine is 2 and he has a ttr50 waiting for the moment he is tall enough to ride it.
- It will get worse until the government does something about insurance costs, it is too much of a sacrifice for a young rider to pay for insurance, that person most have a total dedication for them to take on the burden of paying for a monthly bill as high as they are, if they are on the fence and as first step they look into insurance the process stops there and they never make it to buy the bike.
- Dealerships are a big problem - I bought a new dirt bike in 2017, i dealt with 2 dealerships. One not going to name as I feel they did their best with the exception of over promising on a delivery date that kept getting delayed and delayed, so I had to cancel the purchase and go somewhere else that had inventory. The second place was a nightmare (Two Wheel Motorsports) . The salesman was rude, insulting, belligerent and all because they were the only dealership that had the model of bike i wanted in stock. One of those I got you by the balls so f you. I will admit I swallow my pride and bough the bike but will never set foot in that place ever again. If a new rider goes through someone like that they will be disillusioned by the sport right from the get go and not purchase.
So as summary:
Insurance
Poor dealership inventory
Poor customer service
These 3 things plus having to compete with online entertainment and general lack of interest from millennials on dangerous things is the perfect storm for sales to be down. This is in north america, on my trip to europe there are motorcycles everywhere, tons of them everywhere.
- I ride because my dad rode, i bet that many if not most in here are in the same boat - so if you are a dad, get your kids to ride. Mine is 2 and he has a ttr50 waiting for the moment he is tall enough to ride it.
- It will get worse until the government does something about insurance costs, it is too much of a sacrifice for a young rider to pay for insurance, that person most have a total dedication for them to take on the burden of paying for a monthly bill as high as they are, if they are on the fence and as first step they look into insurance the process stops there and they never make it to buy the bike.
- Dealerships are a big problem - I bought a new dirt bike in 2017, i dealt with 2 dealerships. One not going to name as I feel they did their best with the exception of over promising on a delivery date that kept getting delayed and delayed, so I had to cancel the purchase and go somewhere else that had inventory. The second place was a nightmare (Two Wheel Motorsports) . The salesman was rude, insulting, belligerent and all because they were the only dealership that had the model of bike i wanted in stock. One of those I got you by the balls so f you. I will admit I swallow my pride and bough the bike but will never set foot in that place ever again. If a new rider goes through someone like that they will be disillusioned by the sport right from the get go and not purchase.
So as summary:
Insurance
Poor dealership inventory
Poor customer service
These 3 things plus having to compete with online entertainment and general lack of interest from millennials on dangerous things is the perfect storm for sales to be down. This is in north america, on my trip to europe there are motorcycles everywhere, tons of them everywhere.
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Very odd... tho the mechanical gauge on the CBF1000 is almost worse than having none....at least when the KLR coughs and I switch the tank over I have reasonable idea of how much range is left.
The CBF hit's a quarter left indicated then goes into complete freefall....really if not for the tripmeter .....
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This CAN be handled if the kid is willing to do the first year on a 50cc ( $850 a year at the time under Facility ) ....my kid moved up the CC size with "reasonable" insurance costs.
That said Ontario simply sucks for costs - my guess is Manitoba is far less and Winnepeg no less risky than Brampton.
With all the used machines out there I'm somewhat surprised ANYONE buys a new bike.
If you finance it you are locked into paying comprehensive for the life of the finance term.
My kid did buy a new 2013 FZ8 but the price was so ridiculously low that they still sell 4 years later for more than he paid ( $6950)
Older riders have the money to buy new and really with all the online information around is anyone going to a dealer to be "sold" a bike ....or just to buy at the lowest price. The trades are theft.
As for poor customer service ... I think that varies....but then I'm not looking at new bikes. I've found Two Wheel reasonable and bought my earlier used Vstrom there with little issue to complain about.
The Honda Powersports motorcycle guys in Milton were excellent at both rescuing me for free and providing warranty coverage of the stator on a 7 year old machine.
My sense is the service departments are overwhelmed with work as people buy used. The Honda CBX500 was perhaps the first machine that was competitive with used and the Yamaha triples as well....the FZ9 was a relative bargain and very affordable given what you got for the money.
Reviews and word of mouth sells the good reliable machines ( forums like StromTroopers guide wannabe owners far better than any floor sales person ) and the internet allows shopping around for the deal.
Much of this will be to a point moot as EV motorcycles enter mainstream and completely change the landscape.
There will be for decades tho a vibrant ICE motorcycle world ...just little or no new. Farkles and repairs for classic machines ( think Wings and Gixxers and Vstroms plus BMW fanboyz and others )
Dealers that rely on quality and timely service will thrive....new machines have a clear horizon and no major in their right mind will invest heavily in ICE tech moving forward.
If it weren't for the stupid sales tax on used ( doesn't exist in Australia ) we'd have a very lively market and if Ontario adopted Australia's liability insurance set up ( liability insurance is mandatory and issued with your annual or biannual permit - there is a single seat option as well so my KLR 650 with insurance costs about $265 a year including the liability and if I sell it the liability insurance goes with the bike ).
They do however have a pretty steep Learner regulation and bike power/CC limitation.
Ontario could copy that whole set of regs and insurance ...but they won't
And while that would bring lots of riders in ....won't help the dealers much....the end is nigh ....Honda bringing motorcycles into the car dealerships was just the first edge.
EV motorcycles are relatively simple ....majors will have little edge over low cost third world machines ....we're sort of here...the peak of design
for a dead category....and the demographics of fewer young people makes survival of motorcycle dealers iffy indeed.
48Connor
Well-known member
Bike insurance still isn't as bad as car insurance for price (still a usability argument). I pay twice as much for my truck as I do for my bike, and my bike is $1600/year. No tickets, accidents, or claims, either in my 6 years in a car, or 2 on a bike. But you add them together, and $5k/year for insurance is insane.
Completely different arguement, but if I was a girl, I would bet my insurance cost would be half that.
I'd rather not ride than ride a 50cc bike. I don't know if I could park it in the garage even and not ride it just to get the 'insurance experience' due to pure embarrassment of owning a 50cc bike.
Very odd... tho the mechanical gauge on the CBF1000 is almost worse than having none....at least when the KLR coughs and I switch the tank over I have reasonable idea of how much range is left.
The CBF hit's a quarter left indicated then goes into complete freefall....really if not for the tripmeter .....
Lots of volume up top, not much at the base where the fuel level sensor is, thanks to the shape. Everything looks fine until the gasoline gets down to that point. Had an older Kawasaki like that. Remember pulling into a gas station just before it closed on Saturday, up north, middle of nowhere. Babied the throttle, needle firmly in the red for the last 20km. Opened the cap, tank rang like a bell, nothing but fumes.
My kid was like that ( tho he was riding dirt bikes ) ...the minute he got on ther 50cc Jaz the grin was a mile wide.....freedom.
Then a Zuma ...could keep up with 50 km traffic.
Past the first year and he a choice ...think it was a 250 street something. He was still riding dirt so YZ250 and the Honda450 motocross beast gave him the thrills.
SV650 taught him the importance of seat position on long rides...but it was the first bike he chose and purchased entirely on his own.
Got lucky when we sold it for a good price ( $5100 ) and then scored that FZ8 for $6990 which is still huddling in the garage.
Now that you guys mention it...
My father rode as well. He didn't encourage me to get into motorcycles but didn't forbid it. He just warned me motorcycles are very unstable and difficult to brake with.
A few years ago, I asked him "Dad, did you use the rear brake instead of the front all the time?" He told me yes, and that my mother and him fell a few times (without gear) because hard braking would cause the back to kick out.
And that was the first time I lectured my father lol
EDIT: Also, motorcycling dying likely relates to this forum's population and age diversity as well. PLau and myself are two of the youngest active posters here. Majority is ancient (no offense.)
Older gentlemen tend to cling onto their ways with absurd amounts of fortitude. The new generation seems to embrace, accept, and promote change (or as you guys would like to call it, "short attention span.")
Motorcycling marketing needs to target people in my age group by realizing the above. The primary reason why I view the older generation as a bunch mentally crippled is the same reason why the older generation views the younger generation as retarded...we're different =P
This situation is amplified by the older generation always thinking they're right. The track day junkies are mostly exceptions to this mindset as they'll hash out, objectively, with younger riders on how to get faster on track; this is likely because if you ******** on track, you will find out very fast if you're wrong after being asked to demonstrate said ********. The rest hold onto their views with an iron fist because ""this worked for xyz years therefore has to be right" which is a logical fallacy at best, in terms of justifying why xyz works.
Motorcycling marketing is non-existent (I never seen commercials for it), and all old marketing was targeting the same group insulting the new generation...
......geez, I wonder why no one young wants to get into motorcycles....
My father rode as well. He didn't encourage me to get into motorcycles but didn't forbid it. He just warned me motorcycles are very unstable and difficult to brake with.
A few years ago, I asked him "Dad, did you use the rear brake instead of the front all the time?" He told me yes, and that my mother and him fell a few times (without gear) because hard braking would cause the back to kick out.
And that was the first time I lectured my father lol
EDIT: Also, motorcycling dying likely relates to this forum's population and age diversity as well. PLau and myself are two of the youngest active posters here. Majority is ancient (no offense.)
Older gentlemen tend to cling onto their ways with absurd amounts of fortitude. The new generation seems to embrace, accept, and promote change (or as you guys would like to call it, "short attention span.")
Motorcycling marketing needs to target people in my age group by realizing the above. The primary reason why I view the older generation as a bunch mentally crippled is the same reason why the older generation views the younger generation as retarded...we're different =P
This situation is amplified by the older generation always thinking they're right. The track day junkies are mostly exceptions to this mindset as they'll hash out, objectively, with younger riders on how to get faster on track; this is likely because if you ******** on track, you will find out very fast if you're wrong after being asked to demonstrate said ********. The rest hold onto their views with an iron fist because ""this worked for xyz years therefore has to be right" which is a logical fallacy at best, in terms of justifying why xyz works.
Motorcycling marketing is non-existent (I never seen commercials for it), and all old marketing was targeting the same group insulting the new generation...
......geez, I wonder why no one young wants to get into motorcycles....
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bigpoppa
Well-known member
油井緋色;2540513 said:
I still think if a honda put on a stunt show there would be tons of new riders:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6arqu2hs1w
Perhaps...but then we get into a new debate:
There's another issue I've noticed among my group of friends when I tried to get them into motorcycling.
The new generation is filled with pussies. My brother, 3 years younger than me, weighs 160lbs and deadlifts 500lb+. He has his M2, and is afraid of motorcycling because the risk of injury is real (even with gear.) I respect his decision but I'm labeling him a pussy for this; deadlifting 500lb is not exactly safe, nor is zip-lining above alligators.
My other buddy's wife is a nurse, and won't accept my explanation that the patients she saw had no gear on (even though she told me they didn't and knows what kind of crashes I've been through scratch free.)
A lot of my friends will stare at me and think I'm a lunatic when hearing my stories or watching me ride; there is a serious disconnect between what is risky and what is safe. When you compound this with Ontario's ridiculous low motor-vehicle license skill floor, and habit to ticket anyone performing above said skill floor....yeah, we're kinda ****ed.
Trials
Well-known member
If it makes you feel any better we said all those same things about our parents. Mine were not into motorcycles but they were supportive of my interest so I can't complain. ... and yes your brother sounds like a pussy and yes nurses and doctors generally have no clue about riding motorcycles and what makes them safe or what makes them dangerous, they only see the results of the worst case scenario's and blame the bike, just as if they lived in the US and treated gun shot victims on a regular basis they would blame the guns.
I have no problem being labeled as an old fart! you should be so lucky as to live long enough to have the same thing happen to you :binky:
I have no problem being labeled as an old fart! you should be so lucky as to live long enough to have the same thing happen to you :binky:
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
油井緋色;2540647 said:
It's cause you've pretty much all been raised as special snowflakes by helicopter parents.
Kids used to go riding bikes in the woods or countryside making vroom vroom noises. Or playing street hockey, organizing a bunch of neighbourhood kids to have a baseball game on a summer afternoon... Or just getting out and doing stupid stuff kids did. We were left to our own devices, with a "as long as you're home for supper", or afterwards, "you get home as soon as the street lights come on." Hardly a week went by without bumps, bruises or scrapes and stuff.
So many kids are bubble wrapped, and have been taught the "it's not your fault" line.
My guess, is your brother is terrified 'cause he suddenly doesn't have the bubble wrap. It's something serious, where he can be hurt. And gasp, yes, it can be his fault.
There's another forum member who's group rides have led directly to multiple riders crashing. He refuses to accept any responsibility because he told them to "ride their own pace." Riders of questionable skill in the group, and yet he chose a ridiculous pace. Multiple times. Sure, it the fault fully his, no. But I feel some of it is, as he didn't alter the pace to accomodate the variable skill levels. A member of the "special snowflake" generation.
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AllistonGT
Well-known member
油井緋色;2540513 said:
I'm one of those older gentlemen. You gotta print off your post and stash it away someplace. When your about 55 read it, show your kids and they will say thats you dad!
Same is said every generation. Oh and when I was 20 I always thought I was right. See i haven't changed!
Iceman
Well-known member
Bwahahaha! I see what you did there.
Wait. What did you do there?
I'm old and I forgot already.
Where am I?
Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk
I'm one of those older gentlemen. You gotta print off your post and stash it away someplace. When your about 55 read it, show your kids and they will say thats you dad!
No...there's a big difference, no offense!
Older gentlemen tend to give great advice on subjective topics. Having so many years of dealing with people tend to reflect that.
However, when it comes to more objective topics (e.g. house vs investing, riding a motorcycle properly, fixing a computer, etc.) the divide in generations becomes extremely obvious. This may simply be because my generation has a massive degree inflation, and degrees tend to teach critical thinking skills. I've been objectively wrong many times and have no issues admitting it.
An example is the whole "lay 'er down" option some riders have in mind. If we sit down and do some research about which one is actually faster, we'll be sure to find objective facts involving the physics behind each scenario, or clear tests with results and methodology clearly documented. There are no "feelings" involved in this part of the discussion. It is faster or slower to "lay 'er down" with relation to stopping speeds.
If I lose the ability to critically think as I get older, I'll commit seppuku out of shame.
I don't know if this is entirely true. At least my brother and I were not as sheltered. My fiancee definitely was though. All 3 of us have no issues admitting our fault but that sample size is small. Our parents, on the other hand, never admit to any fault (apparently beating your kids until they're blue, then forcing them go to school the next day in long sleeves isn't wrong lol). The fault admission isn't specific to generation in my opinion....some people are just horrible human beings lol
I'm seriously going to get a pinecone sticker and stick it on my next track bike =P
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