Motorcycle industry is in deep trouble and needs help fast

[Trials]

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:lmao: he said "lay 'er down"
only an idiot would think they still have control over their motorcycle once everything goes pin-ball.

 

[油井緋色]

:lmao: he said "lay 'er down"
only an idiot would think they still have control over their motorcycle once everything goes pin-ball.

Tell that to the multitude of riders I've met who proudly tell stories about jumping off their motorcycles...

...hell, my manager is one of them :'(

 

[AllistonGT]

No...there's a big difference, no offense!

Older gentlemen tend to give great advice on subjective topics. Having so many years of dealing with people tend to reflect that.

However, when it comes to more objective topics (e.g. house vs investing, riding a motorcycle properly, fixing a computer, etc.) the divide in generations becomes extremely obvious. This may simply be because my generation has a massive degree inflation, and degrees tend to teach critical thinking skills. I've been objectively wrong many times and have no issues admitting it.

An example is the whole "lay 'er down" option some riders have in mind. If we sit down and do some research about which one is actually faster, we'll be sure to find objective facts involving the physics behind each scenario, or clear tests with results and methodology clearly documented. There are no "feelings" involved in this part of the discussion. It is faster or slower to "lay 'er down" with relation to stopping speeds.

If I lose the ability to critically think as I get older, I'll commit seppuku out of shame.



I don't know if this is entirely true. At least my brother and I were not as sheltered. My fiancee definitely was though. All 3 of us have no issues admitting our fault but that sample size is small. Our parents, on the other hand, never admit to any fault (apparently beating your kids until they're blue, then forcing them go to school the next day in long sleeves isn't wrong lol). The fault admission isn't specific to generation in my opinion....some people are just horrible human beings lol



I'm seriously going to get a pinecone sticker and stick it on my next track bike =P

It’s all good! No offense taken.


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[MacDoc]

Quote Originally Posted by Trials View Post
he said "lay 'er down"

only an idiot would think they still have control over their motorcycle once everything goes pin-ball.
Tell that to the multitude of riders I've met who proudly tell stories about jumping off their motorcycles...

...hell, my manager is one of them :'(

just about the most stupid advice ever.....

 

[Hack]

Completely different arguement, but if I was a girl, I would bet my insurance cost would be half that.

Try telling your ins. co. that you identify as "female"... Watch their heads spin as they try to figure out how not to get sued when they deny you your gender identity.

 

[48Connor]

Try telling your ins. co. that you identify as "female"... Watch their heads spin as they try to figure out how not to get sued when they deny you your gender identity.

I don't think any insurance company gives a damn what you identify as, rather what's on your license. Though apparently now I can put an 'X' instead of male or female on my license. I wonder if my insurance would stay the same or go down? That's a Top 10 Questions Science Still Can't Answer.

 

[GreyGhost]

I don't think any insurance company gives a damn what you identify as, rather what's on your license. Though apparently now I can put an 'X' instead of male or female on my license. I wonder if my insurance would stay the same or go down? That's a Top 10 Questions Science Still Can't Answer.

They have stats for M and F, given the lack of stats for X, I would assume that they pick the highest alternative rate category (probably M in most cases).

As an aside, X is stupid. If the government wants to acknowledge complicated gender choices, it would have been much simpler just to remove gender from the license as obviously it isn't a defining metric that can be used to identify the cardholder.

 

[油井緋色]

I don't think any insurance company gives a damn what you identify as, rather what's on your license. Though apparently now I can put an 'X' instead of male or female on my license. I wonder if my insurance would stay the same or go down? That's a Top 10 Questions Science Still Can't Answer.

.......shouldn't insurance rates for x be higher than m or f? M has testosterone which is linked to aggression. F has estrogen, which is linked to mood swings a week prior to their monthly. X is on unknown substances conflicting against natural hormones which may result in inconsistent mood fluctuation.

 

[bigpoppa]

post#225 onward has made me chuckle, bravo!

 

[BigEvilDoer]

*snip* At least my brother and I were not as sheltered. My fiancee definitely was though. All 3 of us have no issues admitting our fault but that sample size is small. *snip*. The fault admission isn't specific to generation in my opinion....

OK, maybe admission of fault isn't an issue, but accepting the consequences is - that I've noticed from many "kids".

There seems to be a ton more "sheltered" kids in the upcoming generations than there used to be. Money is a big thing here. Under 20's don't understand how expensive it is to live and make lots of "questionable" life decisions. A neighbour works at Citibank. She tells me of the stupid high rate loans they give out to the younger generation - and all they want to do is live a lifestyle out of their reach. The reality sets in when it's time to pay back.

Biggest pet peeve would be the need to confirm things 17x times with people via text. Gone are the days of personal responsibility - make a plan with Joe Buddy on Monday afternoon for a Friday supper at 6pm. Didn't need to call back and confirm. Joe would show up at the location at 6pm.

Now what does all this have to do with Motorcycling?

Kids are too wrapped up in their phones and social networking to get out and ride. Can't tell you how many times I've heard a stumble-through conversation between kids 'cause they're too busy texting the whole time they're together. Why not just pick up the phone, make a quick call and save 20 minutes of texting?

As long as they're wrapped up in the whole social media, special snowflake attitude, motorcycling will decline.

 

[ZX600]

Now that you guys mention it...

My father rode as well. He didn't encourage me to get into motorcycles but didn't forbid it. He just warned me motorcycles are very unstable and difficult to brake with.

A few years ago, I asked him "Dad, did you use the rear brake instead of the front all the time?" He told me yes, and that my mother and him fell a few times (without gear) because hard braking would cause the back to kick out.

And that was the first time I lectured my father lol

EDIT: Also, motorcycling dying likely relates to this forum's population and age diversity as well. PLau and myself are two of the youngest active posters here. Majority is ancient (no offense.)

Older gentlemen tend to cling onto their ways with absurd amounts of fortitude. The new generation seems to embrace, accept, and promote change (or as you guys would like to call it, "short attention span.")

Motorcycling marketing needs to target people in my age group by realizing the above. The primary reason why I view the older generation as a bunch mentally crippled is the same reason why the older generation views the younger generation as retarded...we're different =P

This situation is amplified by the older generation always thinking they're right. The track day junkies are mostly exceptions to this mindset as they'll hash out, objectively, with younger riders on how to get faster on track; this is likely because if you ******** on track, you will find out very fast if you're wrong after being asked to demonstrate said ********. The rest hold onto their views with an iron fist because ""this worked for xyz years therefore has to be right" which is a logical fallacy at best, in terms of justifying why xyz works.

Motorcycling marketing is non-existent (I never seen commercials for it), and all old marketing was targeting the same group insulting the new generation...

......geez, I wonder why no one young wants to get into motorcycles....

Mostly because you guys are a bunch of pussies. No offence

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[bigpoppa]

Mostly because you guys are a bunch of pussies. No offence

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All of the above.


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Yodude has returned

 

[Face]

Unlike places like Europe and India, in North America, motorcycles are generally not primary transportation. Yes there are some of us who commute on them but not anywhere close to being a market trend. Also in North America, motorcycles are not a mass market item like cell phones. So to take the approach that if only we could get Millennials interested, we would save the industry, is very limiting. So is only marketing to the converted, or those who inherit the interest from a parent or older sibling. It seems like the only marketing I see is limited and linked to things I've searched for on line.

Instead I think the industry needs to look at a much broader marketing strategy that exposes as many people as possible to the wider range of what motorcycling can be. The "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign did that, and the positive impact on the industry was well documented. New riders are key to industry success, but people with the interest, or potential interest, can be in all segments of society. A millennial with a decent first job, who isn't interested in immediate home or car ownership has a certain amount of disposable income. So has a 30 something who just got a promotion or a 40 or 50 something who may have just paid off a mortgage. But the idea has to be prevalent out there if they are going to grasp onto it.

That's what happened to me. Before I was 45, motorcycles weren't even on my radar. Then 2 things happened:

1. I was putting big commuter mileage on a car I really liked, and they stopped selling that car. Options for a performance awd wagon with a stick shift became non-existent or prohibitively expensive. So I wanted to extend the usable life of my car as long as possible, and I was looking for a cheap alternative commuting option;

2. Honda did an extensive campaign for the CBR 125. I had no idea motorcycles could be so cheap ($3,600 msrp), so I got my M2 and started looking. I didn't end up buying the CBR, but that campaign coinciding with my specific circumstances and brought me into the market.

10 years later I'm on my 2nd street bike with a combined mileage of around 125k kms, I've had a dirt/dual sport bike for 2 years and I just recently picked up a track bike having done 13 track days on rentals thru Fast, Racer 5 and Pro 6. I've also done two 2-up touring holidays in Europe on rented bikes. And although I'm sure 45 year olds were not the target market for the CBR 125, I think the broad newspaper and television campaign for that bike was an effective tool for the industry as a whole.

The industry needs more of those broader marketing strategies. Yes insurance is a problem, but for a relatively small segment of the North American market (us). I think the range of product is there (both new accessible gateway bikes and more desirable bigger $$ bikes which allow more experienced riders to put their used bikes on the market), but dealers and OEMs need to get themselves out there more. Someone suggested setting up a booth and a few bikes in the Eaton's Centre. Similar things could be done at the CNE and other festivals and street events that occur throughout the summer. Honda's Red Riders program could be expanded. Trail Tours is a great intro to dirt biking. Honda sponsors them by providing bikes, but could do more make people aware of their existence. What are other OEMs doing beyond preaching to the church of the converted?

 

[ZX600]

Yodude has returned

You may want to check my starting date and his.

 

[Megamaniac]

You may want to check my starting date and his.

:lmao:bp .. you losing track ????and I dont drive an 18 wheeler thats PP ...And mac doc bailing has saved my bacon twice now..its not rocket science van comes out of a timmies lot not paying attention I make eye contact ...thinking he is aware I have the right of way being on road him coming out of lot. BUT he gases as I go by ...I see him coming and bail...he ran right over my bike ending up between the front and back wheels of the van. If I hadnt bailed would have been pizza sauce...he broke my leg and obviously he was charged ...ins paid nice settlement too back in the 80s.. Not saying bailing works in all cases but sometimes can be life or death.

 

[Benny!]

:lmao: he said "lay 'er down"
only an idiot would think they still have control over their motorcycle once everything goes pin-ball.

You'd be surprised how many older generation people still think that even though brakes are a million times better than they were.

 

[Megamaniac]

You'd be surprised how many older generation people still think that even though brakes are a million times better than they were.

So ABS is gonna miraculously stop you? You still need enough room for abs to stop you and if you dont have no way out....as in swerve or change lanes whatever.. what you gonna do ride that puppy into side of vehicle hell no Im tossing it like a salad...have it perfected lay er down use seat push off bike avoid impending delivery of pain

 

[GreyGhost]

So ABS is gonna miraculously stop you? You still need enough room for abs to stop you and if you dont have no way out....as in swerve or change lanes whatever.. what you gonna do ride that puppy into side of vehicle hell no Im tossing it like a salad

There is the rare occasion where throwing the bike to the side may get you clear of a crash (as in your case) although it would be very rare that tossing the bike was a better option than turning and praying.

The only time the old lock it up and ride it to the ground strategy works is to go under a trailer. In every other situation you end up worse off than staying hard on the brakes until you hit (or don't hit because you stopped). If you are sliding with the bike you have gained nothing but you have lost all control.

 

[Megamaniac]

Not saying it works in all situations OF COURSE

 

[油井緋色]

Look at what I accidentally started. Where's that popcorn. :agave:

There's a really easy objective flow chart to whether you need to drop the bike or not btw:

Can you, within your abilities, brake before the foreseen crash?

If yes, brake.

If no, jump off.

If you felt like you had a to jump off (or did), and you can't, without thought, brake to the point right before a micro endo happens, you need to work on your braking skills in order to truly evaluate whether or not you should be dropping or stopping the bike, relative to the motorcycle's maximum performance (skill ceiling).

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