How many shekels are they asking for the full system?
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Mapping/power commanders
- Thread starter bigpoppa
- Start date
How many shekels are they asking for the full system?
bigpoppa
Well-known member
no exact number yet but used ones are going for $2500...
That's really expensive for used. Wonder what the MSRP is!
And you still have to pay labour for install and flashing the ECU as well.
Still, I'm not surprised. Full system for my 999 was $5K all in.
For the future, if you are ever thinking about getting an OEM race exhaust to replace the stocker, order it as an option when you first buy the bike. At least you save the labour charge. Same with any other accessories - engine bars, luggage racks, etc - they should install it free of charge. This was the case at both Ducati and BMW, I assume it's the same with KTM as well.
TK4
Well-known member
Even the dealer couldn't recode without the magic key. So what started off as a couple hundred dollar repair ended up in the thousands - to who's benefit ? Certainly not the owner. What a crock.
matt365
Well-known member
In Canada, its the Consumer Protection Act. Pretty much the same as the Magnusson Moss Act in the U.S. They have to prove that the modification you did caused the fault.
@bigpoppa
I'm sure you can just buy cables, and search superduke forums for the akropović factory approved tune. Just use TuneEcu to flash it. You can probably do it straight from your phone...
I'd personally just go for an end can to save some $$$. Not like you need more power on a superduke!
How could the manufacturer complain if you used their approved mapping?
Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
@bigpoppa
I'm sure you can just buy cables, and search superduke forums for the akropović factory approved tune. Just use TuneEcu to flash it. You can probably do it straight from your phone...
I'd personally just go for an end can to save some $$$. Not like you need more power on a superduke!
How could the manufacturer complain if you used their approved mapping?
Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
blackcamaro
Well-known member
Check out the line at the bottom. “All indicators need to get disconnected before the engine can be started” It sounds like they took the track only thing serious and with the turn signals hooked up and Akra tune the bike won’t run.
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Priller
Well-known member
LTTP, but figured I'd throw my 0.02 in. Can't comment on how KTM handles flashing, but for Aprilia, it's a bit complicated. I'm sure there is some overlap.
First off, a piggyback is useless for the bike, as it can really only control fueling. Modern ECU's operate off so many parameters now (speed, rpm, throttle, IMU feedback, O2 sensor, gear, etc.) that simply adjusting air/fuel at max throttle is basically a meaningless mod. To get the most out of the bike, a full top-to-bottom remap needs to be done, which can take dozens of hours to get right. There's one guy in Italy (Gabro Racing) who races Aprilia and has developed maps over hundreds of hours of testing that are regarded as by far the best maps available. Part throttle response is much more important for street riding (with 175 hp, who is at full throttle regularly on the street?), and a good map will make that better across the board.
For slip-ons that delete the cat (all but one Akra branded Aprilia option), you need to remap or the bike will run lean. Aprilia offers either a 'Race' ECU swap or a code that unlocks your ECU if you buy an Aprilia-approved Akrapovic slip-on or full system. This will not void your warranty, but it's not as aggressive a map as the above mentioned one. The kicker is that they charge a huge premium for the unlock code, almost doubling the cost of the 'approved' Aprilia slip-on.
Going outside the official dealership channels opens a few more options. You can buy a tablet that will reflash the ECU as often as you like using maps downloaded from various sites (or pay a mechanic who has one to do it once). You can buy the race ECU and flash that, keeping the stock ECU for swapping back in if you have a warranty claim to make. Or you can buy a pre-flashed ECU like the Gabro unit first mentioned (he used to sell his maps separately, but piracy killed that model, and he used to flash ECU's sent to him, but has stopped doing that because of import/export problems). Doing any of this risks having a warranty claim denied, but nobody seems to have actually seen that happen according to the Aprilia Forums stuff I've read.
I know all this is Aprilia-centric, but I'm assuming there's some overlap with KTM, particularly on ECU flash vs piggyback.
I ended up just deciding to sit tight until my warranty is up, just to be safe. Didn't want to go down the shifty approach of swapping out ECU's if I needed to make a claim, but the biggest reason is there really isn't a compelling reason to change the exhaust except for looks. The stocker sounds fantastic (no idea how it's legal) and isn't that heavy. Swapping gets maybe 1-2 hp, which I would never notice in a million years. It's not like I feel like the bike is underpowered. I may get the Gabro tune and a cat-delete slip-on at some point, but it would be pure vanity.
Which leads me to some questions: a) why do you want to mod the exhaust?, and b) why a full system? Do you feel like that bike needs more power and torque? It's already got so much that the anti-wheelie and TC are working overtime if you try to use it all. If it's for noise and looks (which are legit reasons), won't it make more sense to get a slip-on? I'm just curious.
I suspect this is only true if you use the official KTM map provided with the exhaust. I'm sure there are options out there that will unlock that limitation. Still, you're probably paying for that KTM tune/unlock, so add even more to the cost...
First off, a piggyback is useless for the bike, as it can really only control fueling. Modern ECU's operate off so many parameters now (speed, rpm, throttle, IMU feedback, O2 sensor, gear, etc.) that simply adjusting air/fuel at max throttle is basically a meaningless mod. To get the most out of the bike, a full top-to-bottom remap needs to be done, which can take dozens of hours to get right. There's one guy in Italy (Gabro Racing) who races Aprilia and has developed maps over hundreds of hours of testing that are regarded as by far the best maps available. Part throttle response is much more important for street riding (with 175 hp, who is at full throttle regularly on the street?), and a good map will make that better across the board.
For slip-ons that delete the cat (all but one Akra branded Aprilia option), you need to remap or the bike will run lean. Aprilia offers either a 'Race' ECU swap or a code that unlocks your ECU if you buy an Aprilia-approved Akrapovic slip-on or full system. This will not void your warranty, but it's not as aggressive a map as the above mentioned one. The kicker is that they charge a huge premium for the unlock code, almost doubling the cost of the 'approved' Aprilia slip-on.
Going outside the official dealership channels opens a few more options. You can buy a tablet that will reflash the ECU as often as you like using maps downloaded from various sites (or pay a mechanic who has one to do it once). You can buy the race ECU and flash that, keeping the stock ECU for swapping back in if you have a warranty claim to make. Or you can buy a pre-flashed ECU like the Gabro unit first mentioned (he used to sell his maps separately, but piracy killed that model, and he used to flash ECU's sent to him, but has stopped doing that because of import/export problems). Doing any of this risks having a warranty claim denied, but nobody seems to have actually seen that happen according to the Aprilia Forums stuff I've read.
I know all this is Aprilia-centric, but I'm assuming there's some overlap with KTM, particularly on ECU flash vs piggyback.
I ended up just deciding to sit tight until my warranty is up, just to be safe. Didn't want to go down the shifty approach of swapping out ECU's if I needed to make a claim, but the biggest reason is there really isn't a compelling reason to change the exhaust except for looks. The stocker sounds fantastic (no idea how it's legal) and isn't that heavy. Swapping gets maybe 1-2 hp, which I would never notice in a million years. It's not like I feel like the bike is underpowered. I may get the Gabro tune and a cat-delete slip-on at some point, but it would be pure vanity.
Which leads me to some questions: a) why do you want to mod the exhaust?, and b) why a full system? Do you feel like that bike needs more power and torque? It's already got so much that the anti-wheelie and TC are working overtime if you try to use it all. If it's for noise and looks (which are legit reasons), won't it make more sense to get a slip-on? I'm just curious.
I suspect this is only true if you use the official KTM map provided with the exhaust. I'm sure there are options out there that will unlock that limitation. Still, you're probably paying for that KTM tune/unlock, so add even more to the cost...
Some car ecus track mileage they have been used for. If you swap ecus, he mileage on the dash wouldnt match the mileage in the ecu. No idea if bike ECU do the same thing.
Just stick the car up on jacks and run it in reverse till the odometer matches.
Saw that in a movie once.
So it must be true.
TK4
Well-known member
Just don't kick the jack stands out...
Isn't that why they make the motorcycle "trailers" that leave the wheel down? Tow it backwards to the track, race it for the weekend, tow it backwards home and it's like the weekend never happened.
Seems like a non-issue to me. Since nobody in Toronto uses turn signals anyway...
But if indicators are important to you, there's a workaround... as always. I'm reading that you need to fool the ECU into thinking the indicators are disconnected by providing just a bit of resistance in the turn signal circuit. The kind of resistance that aftermarket LED turn signals use. So, it turns out that a popular mod that most people do anyway defeats this ECU restriction.
Info here:
https://www.ktmforums.com/threads/2...s-home-aka-akrapovic-led-turn-signals.135134/
That's one of those slippery-slope questions.
Why do *any* kind of performance modification on any modern motorcycle?
Especially when:
a) most people skills don't even approach the limits of their bike. I'll readily admit to being in this camp.
b) the commensurate amount spent on training would yield far better results in performance
If we were to only ride motorcycles whose performance were within the limits of our riding abilities, most people would be stuck on a Harley Davidson...
TK4
Well-known member
In another life I was involved with building CBR250Rs for the spec series that Honda Canada ran in CSBK.
We installed a Hindle slip-on and put it on the dyno with a sniffer - no other mods.
The thing was running so lean the dyno operator only gave it a couple of passes before saying we were going to cause severe damage.
A call to DynoJet and a Power Commander arrived, we plugged it in and the problem was solved.
Why did we bother with the muffler ? Mostly just for the sound I guess, I doubt it added much more than one or two HP.
When I see (or hear) the squids running around with aftermarket mufflers or no mufflers at all I cringe.
We installed a Hindle slip-on and put it on the dyno with a sniffer - no other mods.
The thing was running so lean the dyno operator only gave it a couple of passes before saying we were going to cause severe damage.
A call to DynoJet and a Power Commander arrived, we plugged it in and the problem was solved.
Why did we bother with the muffler ? Mostly just for the sound I guess, I doubt it added much more than one or two HP.
When I see (or hear) the squids running around with aftermarket mufflers or no mufflers at all I cringe.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
for the amount of money a new full system akra will cost I can probably get a really nice, used track bike
TK4
Well-known member
Or a ricer Honda Civic with a fartbomb muffler ?for the amount of money a new full system akra will cost I can probably get a really nice, used track bike
You should try a mini. No cruise control and there is really only one way to bend your right leg so you definitely feel it after a few hours.
for the amount of money a new full system akra will cost I can probably get a really nice, used track bike
Definitely do a course at one of those track schools, Fast, Racer5. They even supply the suit and bike, so it's a low-cost way of trying it out without committing to buying the whole kit'n kaboodle.
It'll change the trajectory of your riding career. Hands down the most fun you can have on two wheels.
since its likely euro 5 compliant, likely all the noise is being swallowed by a giant cat under the bike, slip on will change the tone perhaps but not the noise level. my bike is the same, hence my route to flash and disable the electronic flapper that stays shut below 6k rpm.
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