man plows through motorcyclists

[ashkan]

I can't say that I would behave any differently, if an obviously aggressive group of people was trying to get to myself and my family. I think that I would quite likely drive over or through anyone who got in my way, in order to get to the nearest police station.

The point im trying to make is that in the beginning, had he pulled over after hitting that bike, it wouldve never escalated to that point. When he runs over the bikes the very first time, to me, its unjustified since as far as the video shows, you dont see anyone running towards him with a helmet or punching the car or threatening to harm his family. It all happened after he ran over the first bike. I just dont like how some people are cutting his so much slack only because the other part was a group of riders and justfy his potentially deadly action and letting him off the hook just because.

 

[coyo]

The point im trying to make is that in the beginning, had he pulled over after hitting that bike, it wouldve never escalated to that point. When he runs over the bikes the very first time, to me, its unjustified since as far as the video shows, you dont see anyone running towards him with a helmet or punching the car or threatening to harm his family. It all happened after he ran over the first bike. I just dont like how some people are cutting his so much slack only because the other part was a group of riders and justfy his potentially deadly action and letting him off the hook just because.

His truck is forced to stop after being brake checked. The truck is surrounded. You can plainly see someone trying to rip the driver's door open. The report is that the mob was damaging his truck with his family inside THEN he makes the decision to escape and runs over the bikes. Are you watching the same video?

 

[Red_Liner740]

His got his blinders on.

Pull over? TO WHERE?!! maybe running a few bikes over while trying to pull over?

They didnt even give him a chance to do ANY maneuver. They blocked him and stopped him.

Just for a split ****ing second put yourself in his shoes. In your rear view mirror are hundreds of bikes. To every way you look there are loud, revving motorcycles, guys are banging on your door to open it and get the **** out! FFS they didnt even let him pull to the side of the road. You are now stopped in the middle lane of a highway surrounded. Yes, you will calmly roll down the window and say

"oh i say, chaps, bit of a doozy there....shall we exhange insurance because your ****** friend tried to break check me on a highway..."

Easy to armchair quarterback how what he did was wrong, but i can see the mental state he is in and while not agreeing with what he did, can 100% justify.

and like i said earlier. Place me in the same situation, and my car will become a motorcycle plow.

His truck is forced to stop after being brake checked. The truck is surrounded. You can plainly see someone trying to rip the driver's door open. The report is that the mob was damaging his truck with his family inside THEN he makes the decision to escape and runs over the bikes. Are you watching the same video?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

The point im trying to make is that in the beginning, had he pulled over after hitting that bike, it wouldve never escalated to that point. When he runs over the bikes the very first time, to me, its unjustified since as far as the video shows, you dont see anyone running towards him with a helmet or punching the car or threatening to harm his family. It all happened after he ran over the first bike. I just dont like how some people are cutting his so much slack only because the other part was a group of riders and justfy his potentially deadly action and letting him off the hook just because.

And, as I stated previously, we don't seem to see the incident that instigated the whole thing. Hard to make a judgement based on what we don't see.

 

[Baggsy]

The point im trying to make is that in the beginning, had he pulled over after hitting that bike, it wouldve never escalated to that point. When he runs over the bikes the very first time, to me, its unjustified since as far as the video shows, you dont see anyone running towards him with a helmet or punching the car or threatening to harm his family. It all happened after he ran over the first bike. I just dont like how some people are cutting his so much slack only because the other part was a group of riders and justfy his potentially deadly action and letting him off the hook just because.

The point you're trying to make is completely wrong. It had already escalated.
He did pull over. They did start attacking him at the side of the road. He did run off. That's if you want to believe the article and video at least.

The motorcyclist was having a conversation with the SUV driver, as the video starts. Then he deliberately cut the guy off within 10' and hit his brakes.

Once people stop acting rationally...

 

[JoeRider]

Is it me or are they doing 50km/hr on the hwy? Instead of blocking all three lanes, maybe ride in a single lane not obstructing the flow of the traffic....


To the OP, YES (imo) the driver with his wife and 5 year old did the right thing.

 

[DGJ]

The bikers were harassing him, I would have done the same. You can't surround a cager and stop to intimidate him on a highway.

 

[viccont]

His truck is forced to stop after being brake checked. The truck is surrounded. You can plainly see someone trying to rip the driver's door open. The report is that the mob was damaging his truck with his family inside THEN he makes the decision to escape and runs over the bikes. Are you watching the same video?

Look closer at the vid, one of them tried to open the door after the fact yo, when brake cheked one was trying to talk as far as i saw.

 

[ashkan]

His truck is forced to stop after being brake checked. The truck is surrounded. You can plainly see someone trying to rip the driver's door open. The report is that the mob was damaging his truck with his family inside THEN he makes the decision to escape and runs over the bikes. Are you watching the same video?

I went back and rewatched the video a few times just to make sure were im not missing anything. Seems like one of the bikers slows down in front of him and he proceeds to hit him from the back which makes the driver at fault. You hit anyone from behind and its your fault. So its his fault to begin with and then he fails to stop and when he is forced to stop, he decided to charge forward and hit everything on his way. Yes he was in real danger and him running over so many bikers is justified. No sir, he instigated it (as far as the video goes and we cant assume what we cant see because thats assumption and anyone can think whatever they want) and then instead of stopping, he chose to run over bikers without anyone hitting his car initially so i dont get why people are trying so hard to defend a driver that used his suv to almost kill a few riders. If anyones life was in danger, it was the riders not him

 

[viccont]

His got his blinders on.

Pull over? TO WHERE?!! maybe running a few bikes over while trying to pull over?

They didnt even give him a chance to do ANY maneuver. They blocked him and stopped him.

Just for a split ****ing second put yourself in his shoes. In your rear view mirror are hundreds of bikes. To every way you look there are loud, revving motorcycles, guys are banging on your door to open it and get the **** out! FFS they didnt even let him pull to the side of the road. You are now stopped in the middle lane of a highway surrounded. Yes, you will calmly roll down the window and say

"oh i say, chaps, bit of a doozy there....shall we exhange insurance because your ****** friend tried to break check me on a highway..."

Easy to armchair quarterback how what he did was wrong, but i can see the mental state he is in and while not agreeing with what he did, can 100% justify.

and like i said earlier. Place me in the same situation, and my car will become a motorcycle plow.

You make this case do or die choise, for whatever happened there before or during on the road could have been solved verbaly before cops arrived.

 

[viccont]

Somone try to be on the place of a person being rear ended and then being run over, i want to c how you feel or survive, because another idiot thought he and his family will be executed point blank. Having gun pointed at me in my vehicle would trigger to put my foot on a gas if that was the case.

 

[drey]

I went back and rewatched the video a few times just to make sure were im not missing anything. Seems like one of the bikers slows down in front of him and he proceeds to hit him from the back which makes the driver at fault. You hit anyone from behind and its your fault. So its his fault to begin with and then he fails to stop and when he is forced to stop, he decided to charge forward and hit everything on his way. Yes he was in real danger and him running over so many bikers is justified. No sir, he instigated it (as far as the video goes and we cant assume what we cant see because thats assumption and anyone can think whatever they want) and then instead of stopping, he chose to run over bikers without anyone hitting his car initially so i dont get why people are trying so hard to defend a driver that used his suv to almost kill a few riders. If anyones life was in danger, it was the riders not him

So the rider cuts off the SUV slows down to an almost complete stop and gets hit...that's not the riders fault at all, yup makes perfect sense. From the video it looks like the guy that gets hit is riding next to the SUV before pulling out in front of him and then proceeds to slow down

 

[ashkan]

You make this case do or die choise, for whatever happened there before or during on the road could have been solved verbaly before cops arrived.

That^

 

[viccont]

So the rider cuts off the SUV slows down to an almost complete stop and gets hit...that's not the riders fault at all, yup makes perfect sense. From the video it looks like the guy that gets hit is riding next to the SUV before pulling out in front of him and then proceeds to slow down

If you get brake checked like this in South Africa, yes i would without hesitation bottomed pedal and go as fast as i could.

 

[Red_Liner740]

I'm not making that case, the driver did.

In his mental state, with the situation he was in, to HIM it was a do or die. All i'm saying is that i can see where he is coming from.

If you brake check someone, or slow down with the sole intent of wanting another vehicle to slow down, in Ontario you will be charged with HTA172.

Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,
i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,
ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,
iii. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object on or near the highway, or....


So no, if you slam on your brakes out of nowhere, for no reason other than to brake check me and i plow into you, YOU will be found at fault.

Our darwin award nominee has checkmarked all three points of HTA172 in regards to interactions with other vehicles.

You make this case do or die choise, for whatever happened there before or during on the road could have been solved verbaly before cops arrived.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I went back and rewatched the video a few times just to make sure were im not missing anything. Seems like one of the bikers slows down in front of him and he proceeds to hit him from the back which makes the driver at fault. You hit anyone from behind and its your fault. So its his fault to begin with and then he fails to stop and when he is forced to stop, he decided to charge forward and hit everything on his way. Yes he was in real danger and him running over so many bikers is justified. No sir, he instigated it (as far as the video goes and we cant assume what we cant see because thats assumption and anyone can think whatever they want) and then instead of stopping, he chose to run over bikers without anyone hitting his car initially so i dont get why people are trying so hard to defend a driver that used his suv to almost kill a few riders. If anyones life was in danger, it was the riders not him

That appears to have taken place after whatever incident predicated this whole mess. The rider obviously shoulder checks AND THEN slows down, apparently trying to force the driver to stop.

We, as riders, need to stop supporting bad behaviour by our fellow riders. This event is a problem, to begin with. An incident (collision) occurred while it was taking place, which is a predictable outcome from this sort of riding no matter who was technically at fault. The behaviour that occurred, after the incident, is the sort of thing that paints us all in a bad light. In fact this event has not been banned.

*EDIT* Let's put it this way: If that was actually the first incident, that resulted in the ensuing chase and assaults, then the rider in question, in this Province, would have been charged under HTA 172. In most jurisdictions, that I'm aware of, that would have resulted in charges for the rider based on what was shown on the video. I do maintain, however, that there must have been another incident, prior to that, that sparked the other actions.

 

[hedo2002]

The bikers were harassing him, I would have done the same. You can't surround a cager and stop to intimidate him on a highway.

Well you can BUT it likely won't end well for you..lol Who thinks brake checking a cager in an SUV with your sport bike is a good maneuver to begin with?? Not to mention as has been stated where was the cager to pull over to? There were bikes in VERY close proximity to his vehicle on ALL sides.

Then the bikers are revving the hell out of their engines... Why if not to attempt to intimidate?? I am surprised that there weren't more bikes and riders that went down the way they were racing to catch him and almost hitting each other in their whipped up frenzy to extract what they felt was "justice"

Was he right? I have NO idea as has also been correctly stated we didn't see the WHOLE video. It amazes me how a few can rush to judgement without seeing the entire video. It is like the videos we see of a cop wielding a baton and there are immediate cries for him to be fired and jailed for life. THEN it goes to court and the WHOLE video is shown and it reveals before the little "selective" tidbit that was posted the other guy had a knife and had made several swings at the officers with that knife.

Even if the SUV had done something to "provoke" such rage, if the bikers weren't intent upon extracting some form of justice then, why didn't THEY call the police? Instead they CHOOSE to take matters into their own hands and dispense whatever punishment THEY felt was warranted.

A few have said after the initial crash, (where he hit the brake checking bike), that no one was rushing his vehicle, did you not see the guy who had brake checked at his hood of the car? Did that rider look composed and willing to deal with a simple collision, which his actions helped cause, (think about it for just a second even IF you were alone and involved in some form of road rage and you brake checked some cager and he hit you, would YOU be calm and civil?? Or would you be yelling and perhaps threatening?

In the end these "bikers" did more damage to the reputation of those of us who are responsible and respectful of ALL road users than most single riders could do in a 1,000 years. Can anyone say what the ride was in support of, or what the "cause" they were riding for is??? Not very many could so even if it were a GREAT cause that message has been lost by their actions. Not to mention the ride has now been banned from being held in coming years so how does that serve the riders OR the "cause"?? It doesn't. Think if something like this happened during the Highway of Heroes ride, here at home. Would the general public be saying "look at what those great riders are doing for that cause" or is it likely the ride here too would be banned and the public would again view it as a bunch of no for good bikers who CAN'T behave. This would cause damage to our reputation and the Highway of Heroes would suffer the loss of an IMPORTANT fund raiser and a spot light on THEIR goals.

 

[hedo2002]

I went back and rewatched the video a few times just to make sure were im not missing anything. Seems like one of the bikers slows down in front of him and he proceeds to hit him from the back which makes the driver at fault. You hit anyone from behind and its your fault. So its his fault to begin with and then he fails to stop and when he is forced to stop, he decided to charge forward and hit everything on his way. Yes he was in real danger and him running over so many bikers is justified. No sir, he instigated it (as far as the video goes and we cant assume what we cant see because thats assumption and anyone can think whatever they want) and then instead of stopping, he chose to run over bikers without anyone hitting his car initially so i dont get why people are trying so hard to defend a driver that used his suv to almost kill a few riders. If anyones life was in danger, it was the riders not him

Not sure what the law in NY is BUT here in Ontario the rider WOULD be charged and convicted of either 172 or Careless driving, brake checking IS an offense regardless of the reasoning for it. Note I said Brake checking NOT panic or emergency stopping. The video shows CLEAR intent of the rider was to impede or stop the SUV.

 

[coyo]

I went back and rewatched the video a few times just to make sure were im not missing anything. Seems like one of the bikers slows down in front of him and he proceeds to hit him from the back which makes the driver at fault. You hit anyone from behind and its your fault. So its his fault to begin with and then he fails to stop and when he is forced to stop, he decided to charge forward and hit everything on his way. Yes he was in real danger and him running over so many bikers is justified. No sir, he instigated it (as far as the video goes and we cant assume what we cant see because thats assumption and anyone can think whatever they want) and then instead of stopping, he chose to run over bikers without anyone hitting his car initially so i dont get why people are trying so hard to defend a driver that used his suv to almost kill a few riders. If anyones life was in danger, it was the riders not him

I went back and rewatched the video a few times just to make sure were im not missing anything

I went back and re-read your post a few times just to make sure I'm not missing anything... but points like; Yes he was in real danger and him running over so many bikers is justified. No sir, he instigated it" are confusing as you're flip-flopping.

At any rate,

He gets brake checked and he stops (after allegedly hitting the bike although we only MAYBE see that in the video). He is stopped. Right there in the roadway. There is no motion. I know this because the camera is also stationary... and the SUV is not approaching the camera.

Well, until he flees but at least in that fact we agree.

As for the "rear ender"; the bike enters the SUV's lane, then cuts him off. The SUV is slowing down (this is why the camera catches up and is supported by the sound of the camera bike's engine which is not accelerating) and then the bike brake checks him.

Now depending on which report you read there MAY have been contact made prior to the video starting however even when the video starts the SUV is for the most part, surrounded. No one seems to be trying to stop the SUV except for the one bike that ends up brake checking him.

Even if there was a fail to stop issue here, based on what I see when the SUV does stop, along with who we know is in the SUV, and the actions of the riders, this guy is ****ing himself and likely fearing for the safety of himself and his family. Not many people are going to just sit there and wait to see what happens.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

[viccont]

[/QUOTE]Even if the SUV had done something to "provoke" such rage, if the bikers weren't intent upon extracting some form of justice then, why didn't THEY call the police? Instead they CHOOSE to take matters into their own hands and dispense whatever punishment THEY felt was warranted.[/QUOTE]

I bet you those stayed near people laying flat on the ground did call the cops.