Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly..... | Page 319 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
Rob MacLennan said:
...Given that police are often accused of criminal acts as a method of retaliation, I think that #2 is a non starter. ...
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I see your point (don't know how to quantify it), but there are lots of examples where the cops are 'caught' doing bad things and placed on paid leave for years.

Perhaps accused cops should be given the option of taking paid leave in exchange for returning the funds and seniority if they are convicted, keeping the funds and seniority if they are acquitted.
 
85K100 said:
They're sure not saying much about it. I wonder what they're trying to hide. That would be a fun plinker for the back 40!
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I am not sure what they are covering up. I think we know? It also would be Copexplaining.
 
If you suspend a cop without pay, when the cop comes up in court for the charge, the defense will argue that suspending them without pay has prejudiced the outcome of the trial, that the police "brass" thought the subject was guilty before the trial, that the police "brass" was assigning punishment before the trial, when the officer was supposed to be assumed to be innocent... which would get the charges dropped.
 
85K100 said:
I wonder what they're trying to hide.
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Maybe what they are trying to hide, or at least downplay, is there are a bunch of police cars out there with a Colt C8, and ammunition, in the trunk... whole bunch of other cool cop stuff too. (Don't tell anyone... but the radio is what you want. The encryption and signal hopping algorithm would be worth big bucks if you could find the right buyer).
 
bitzz said:
Maybe what they are trying to hide, or at least downplay, is there are a bunch of police cars out there with a Colt C8, and ammunition, in the trunk... whole bunch of other cool cop stuff too. (Don't tell anyone... but the radio is what you want. The encryption and signal hopping algorithm would be worth big bucks if you could find the right buyer).
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All of the radios are registered now. Should be easy enough for dispatch to kill the ability of a stolen radio to access the network.
 
bitzz said:
If you suspend a cop without pay, when the cop comes up in court for the charge, the defense will argue that suspending them without pay has prejudiced the outcome of the trial, that the police "brass" thought the subject was guilty before the trial, that the police "brass" was assigning punishment before the trial, when the officer was supposed to be assumed to be innocent... which would get the charges dropped.
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Don't suspend without pay prior to psa adjudication. Get that done asap. Feel free to put a blackout on the outcome until after the criminal trial is complete. You shouldn't have to be put in jail to be fired from a job.
 
GreyGhost said:
Don't suspend without pay prior to psa adjudication. Get that done asap. Feel free to put a blackout on the outcome until after the criminal trial is complete. You shouldn't have to be put in jail to be fired from a job.
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Yeah but you have to be fired by a boss and what if the boss is a bigger crook?
 
Dirty Frank said:
Ont the bright side i think those are manufactured in London Ont.
They previously sported mini 14's a cheap and cheerful piece but i would not want to bet my life on one cycling properly in a life and death situation.
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Cycling isn’t the issue , when the Hamilton Police e had the active shooter cornered in the park off York rd last summer , tbe first officer on scene ( that twat that is the son of a police services board member , wonder how he made captain) and the gal behind him fired 20 shots combined , him 8 and her 12 , the tactical squad guy dispatched 26 rounds . Cycling isn’t an issue , target practice might be .


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bitzz said:
Maybe what they are trying to hide, or at least downplay, is there are a bunch of police cars out there with a Colt C8, and ammunition, in the trunk... whole bunch of other cool cop stuff too. (Don't tell anyone... but the radio is what you want. The encryption and signal hopping algorithm would be worth big bucks if you could find the right buyer).
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Pretty sure all of the tow truck guys still have access to police radio somehow. Saw someone getting out of the business last summer that had all his radios and electronics for sale. Almost positive he had one with police frequencies.
 
bitzz said:
If you suspend a cop without pay, when the cop comes up in court for the charge, the defense will argue that suspending them without pay has prejudiced the outcome of the trial, that the police "brass" thought the subject was guilty before the trial, that the police "brass" was assigning punishment before the trial, when the officer was supposed to be assumed to be innocent... which would get the charges dropped.
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If you're talking about criminal court.. that doesn't sound right!?

The suspended with pay until criminal court is over.. is a psa and union contract thing.. it has no relation to criminal or civil proceedings.
More likely the other way around... suspend or fire a cop before the criminal trial.. and they're found not guilty in the courts.. the union would use that to overturn to internal outcome.. they'd go after a lot more than backpay.. because the cop would/could lose everything during it all... etc.

Would a cop that is remanded in custody until a criminal trial.. still be suspended with pay until after the trial?
I think they can fire immediately when a cop is sentenced to jail.. because they can't report for duty.. The same would be true if they were remanded in custody while awaiting their trial??
 
raginduck said:
If you're talking about criminal court.. that doesn't sound right!?

The suspended with pay until criminal court is over.. is a psa and union contract thing.. it has no relation to criminal or civil proceedings.
More likely the other way around... suspend or fire a cop before the criminal trial.. and they're found not guilty in the courts.. the union would use that to overturn to internal outcome.. they'd go after a lot more than backpay.. because the cop would/could lose everything during it all... etc.

Would a cop that is remanded in custody until a criminal trial.. still be suspended with pay until after the trial?
I think they can fire immediately when a cop is sentenced to jail.. because they can't report for duty.. The same would be true if they were remanded in custody while awaiting their trial??
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Well, they'd be able to report until an appeal was heard and denied. A finding of guilt isn't necessarily the end of it.
 
Mikedezo44 said:
Pretty sure all of the tow truck guys still have access to police radio somehow.
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Metro Toronto police have many, many radio frequencies. The "general" dispatch for each division is open and public... which is what the tow truck drivers listen to. The radios have a function where they can switch to an encrypted frequency, that automatically changes frequency, that is impossible to monitor... unless you know the hopping algorithm and have the encryption hash.
If the police are operating a "sting" or important secret operation, any radio transmissions are encrypted... which SOME people would be very interested in.
 
raginduck said:
More likely the other way around... suspend or fire a cop before the criminal trial.. and they're found not guilty in the courts.. the union would use that to overturn to internal outcome.. they'd go after a lot more than backpay.. because the cop would/could lose everything during it all... etc.
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The bar for legitimate termination can not and should not be anything to do with a criminal conviction. Balance of probability is good enough for every other employer in the world, it should be the same bar for the police. Terminated cops are free to sue in civil court where balance of probability remains the bar. Assuming the process was done well initially, it should stand up in court. After the union lost a few dozen cases in court and had to pay costs, they would stop automatically protecting every dirtbag member and focus on the ones that may have a case.
 
raginduck said:
Would a cop that is remanded in custody until a criminal trial..
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If a cop is charged with a criminal offense, they are not automatically suspended. They are supposed to be assigned "desk" duties. There are always LOTS of cops on desk duties.
To get paid while facing charges the cop has to be available to muster every assigned shift... if the cop was in jail, held without bail ( would be REALLY strange, cops ALWAYS get bail) they are not able to muster, so they won't get paid.
... there are a number of cops that are freshly charged with impaired (and doesn't have a driver's license) or has been convicted of impaired (and doesn't have a driver's license) assigned to desk duties... sometimes for years and years and years

Never forget: the police association has the BEST lawyers in the market, better than the government lawyers and prosecutors.
 
My brother the cop, was dispatch supervisor at 2 traffic for a couple of years.
The dispatchers are civilian employees (they're a lot cheaper), and being civilians they can't make "decisions", they have to refer to the supervisor that is at least a Sgt, and has better liability coverage than a civilian).
If the dispatcher wants to talk to the supervisor, they turn on a little, red rotating light that is attached to the back of their chair... like wig-wags on a police car.
I LOL ed
 
GreyGhost said:
The bar for legitimate termination can not and should not be anything to do with a criminal conviction. Balance of probability is good enough for every other employer in the world, it should be the same bar for the police. Terminated cops are free to sue in civil court where balance of probability remains the bar. Assuming the process was done well initially, it should stand up in court. After the union lost a few dozen cases in court and had to pay costs, they would stop automatically protecting every dirtbag member and focus on the ones that may have a case.
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It's my understanding that unionized employees can not sue their employer for anything covered in the collective agreement... that would include terminations, wrongful dismissal, etc..
 
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