Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[AdRath]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

I'm not supporting the cop's actions in any manner but, I'd like to know. What if the dude that got kicked in the head was driving a minivan with your bike in it? You saw him take it but, he took off before you could catch him.

If you could catch him, how would you confront or apprehend him? Would you support a cop chasing him? Or would you ask the cop to just let him go and let the insurance cover everything? What about the cops catch him, your bike is fine but, the cop gives the dude a kick in the nuts?

Police are expected to act in a professional mannor. What I as a civilian thinks or would do shouldn't matter because I am not tasked with upholding the law to professional standards.

It doesn't matter if someone would support the cop for doing it... it doesn't make it right. I personally would love to cut the hands off most thieves but that doesn't make my action any more correct or less illegal if I do it and the officer isn't any different.

 

[ToSlow]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

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[nakkers]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

Police are expected to act in a professional mannor. What I as a civilian thinks or would do shouldn't matter because I am not tasked with upholding the law to professional standards.

It doesn't matter if someone would support the cop for doing it... it doesn't make it right. I personally would love to cut the hands off most thieves but that doesn't make my action any more correct or less illegal if I do it and the officer isn't any different.

Agreed.

here's one for ya, what if it was you setting at the lights in a mini van like the one that stole the bike, then a cop pulls up beside you and thinks it was you that took the bike, and then dragged you out and kicked you in the face, or nuts.

do you think his job at that point would be justifiable?

It's never justified.


BTW, the perp that received a boot in the head was one of 3 suspects in the vehicle. 2 of which are confirmed gang members, one had outstanding parole violations.

As for the cop, I doubt much came of it. I didn't research that far. But, they should receive disciplinary action.

I just can't rally around a video of a cop kicking a perp and grunt that all cops are d bags. i'd also say it's a bit reaching to use this as an example of how cops conduct themselves every day, all the time.

The cop was wrong, no doubt.

Did the cop receive the proper punishment for their conduct? Maybe not and if that's the case, I would demand improvements in disciplinary recourse of the police.

 

[dankyyz]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

But either way....the one who makes such a call should not be some squid from Woodbridge who only knows the details as served up on page 4 of the Sun. can we agree on that? I ask as there seems to be NO END to the nubmer of people on here who act like they have direct access to all the info based on a single click on LiveLeek.

And THAT is the crux of my posts on the subject. Regardless of the input from the peanut gallery.

Agreed.



It's never justified.


BTW, the perp that received a boot in the head was one of 3 suspects in the vehicle. 2 of which are confirmed gang members, one had outstanding parole violations.

As for the cop, I doubt much came of it. I didn't research that far. But, they should receive disciplinary action.

I just can't rally around a video of a cop kicking a perp and grunt that all cops are d bags. i'd also say it's a bit reaching to use this as an example of how cops conduct themselves every day, all the time.

The cop was wrong, no doubt.

Did the cop receive the proper punishment for their conduct? Maybe not and if that's the case, I would demand improvements in disciplinary recourse of the police.

 

[dankyyz]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

Hang in there buddy. The other one falls at about 18 years old.

tell them at the mall what a great time you have on a bike forum were everyone thinks your an ***, and that you are not smart enough to figure it out and just leave

 

[imkruzen]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

Actually I think the swine like the fact that these vids are on YourTubes. It helps to project an image that there is possibility that you may encounter one of these ignorant tyrants bestowed to enforce the law. Unfortunately the quality standards in the hiring process need to be revised. Apparently applicants must be completely devoid of any ability to process rational thought. Behave more like jelly donut consuming goons who portray themselves as Lords of law enforcements without restraint. While they drink beer in a parking lot after work next to the station @ Dundas and Erin Mills. Corrective action was taken on the individual that was caught filming them. How can we respect hypocrites?

The end result will be the same images of people in uniform as were in Russia and Germany during the dark years. When the Law stops you,they want you to pee pee in your pants.

 

[dankyyz]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

You know what is really going to sting?

The entitled squids on this board have all kinds of jobs. Engineers. Photographers. HTA "specialists". Webheads. And.... here it comes kiddies.... COPS.

I think another HUGE element to the "problems with police" that the "outraged riders" and HTA avengers post about is that the upcoming generation are a bunch of pantywaists, who have never been told "no" in their life, and have lived with their parents in Woodbridge about 10 years too long.

So you take those spoiled brats, lend them enough to buy a R1 for their first bikes, and then have them pulled over by some kid raised in the same way, but this guy/gal has a glock. Add a few movies where the guys on the bikes get away from "popo" and several thousand hours jerking off to "running" clips on youtube mingled with other kids watching Warthogs ripping open tanks in the middle east and security guards beating up skate punks i think you have a perfect storm.

And they don't get along..... WOW!!!!

It's more of a human nature thing than a "police need to hire more ____" statement. I have met a couple dick cops as well, but to have that limited exposure to ANYTHING be used as cannon fodder for such alarmist and far reaching comments like "police state" and "the cops need an overhaul" is just plain juvenile.

so keep crying kids. some day the adults will "wake up" and spoon feed you your next helping of whatever passes as upraising .

The entitled and spoiled meet the entitled and spoiled. And like children in a school yard, they don't get along.

 

[ToSlow]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

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[fastar1]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

But either way....the one who makes such a call should not be some squid from Woodbridge who only knows the details as served up on page 4 of the Sun. can we agree on that? I ask as there seems to be NO END to the nubmer of people on here who act like they have direct access to all the info based on a single click on LiveLeek.

And THAT is the crux of my posts on the subject. Regardless of the input from the peanut gallery.

NO ONE ever has all the information, not even those involved in the altercation. There is an endlessly fine level of detailed minutea that could be called into question about any event, all we can ever do is judge based on the information we have. Of course that also means we need to keep an open mind to change our judgement if additional information comes along, but if all you ever do is wait to have the full and complete picture then you can never judge anything, never make decisions, never move forward.

If you have more information on the events that are described here then please post it up. Otherwise expect people's judgement to be based purely on the information presented up to that point, incomplete as it may be.

 

[dankyyz]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

haha, i'm prob old enough to be your dad. and might be, whats your moms name?

Highly doubt that. On either acount. OK. I take it back. You just post in a "youthfull way".

 

[dankyyz]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

I completely understand. And that is the fact. The level of information needed by some on this forum, to come to a solid conclusion that they fight to defend, is pitifully little. And that is all i'm saying. Most of the "factual" posts are built on VERY little REAL data, gleaned from the sketchyist of sources.

So take them for what they are worth....which is not an awfull lot. And when i call people on it they get their nickers in a knot, and start using words like "sheep" and "police apologists".

I'm just REALLy glad they are not "decision makers" of any real kind. And that their fifedoms are limited to a beer filled cubby in Burlington, and a few misguided posts on GTAM.

NO ONE ever has all the information, not even those involved in the altercation. There is an endlessly fine level of detailed minutea that could be called into question about any event, all we can ever do is judge based on the information we have. Of course that also means we need to keep an open mind to change our judgement if additional information comes along, but if all you ever do is wait to have the full and complete picture then you can never judge anything, never make decisions, never move forward.

If you have more information on the events that are described here then please post it up. Otherwise expect people's judgement to be based purely on the information presented up to that point, incomplete as it may be.

 

[ToSlow]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

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[fastar1]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

I completely understand. And that is the fact. The level of information needed by some on this forum, to come to a solid conclusion that they fight to defend, is pitifully little. And that is all i'm saying. Most of the "factual" posts are built on VERY little REAL data, gleaned from the sketchyist of sources.

So take them for what they are worth....which is not an awfull lot. And when i call people on it they get their nickers in a knot, and start using words like "sheep" and "police apologists".

I'm just REALLy glad they are not "decision makers" of any real kind. And that their fifedoms are limited to a beer filled cubby in Burlington, and a few misguided posts on GTAM.

Excuse me sir, is this your hypocrisy that's spilling all over the place?

 

[imkruzen]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES


To Serve and Protect … Or Harass and Collect?

by Eric Peters
EricPetersAutos.com

What good are cops, really?

I mean to the average, non-violent citizen just trying to goabout his business?

For him, cops are a nuisance – and increasingly, a threat.They don't protect his property; indeed, they spend their days trying to takeit away via enforcement of various and ever-increasing laws ranging from theminor ("speeding" fines) to the major (asset seizure for possessingor imbibing some substance the State has arbitrarily decreed to be"illegal"). Or maybe they're out enforcing "free speechzones" and/or giving wood shampoos to the Mundanes (that's WillGrigg's wonderful term – full credit given here).

Libertarian writers such as Grigg, among others, have notedthat most of us – very tellingly – do not feel "safe" when a coprolls up behind us. Or when we see one in general. In fact we feel nervousand stressed – because we know instinctively that the cop is mostemphatically not our "protector." We gird our loins, grit ourteeth. We hope the cop will "give us a break" – that is, decline tofully enforce the ukase he believes we've just transgressed. We become servile,mewling "yes sir, no sir" to some buzz-cut 24-year-old communitycollege graduate (a few have managed to achieve the full four-year degree in"criminal justice" or some such from Turnpike Tech), hating the soundof ourselves as we grovel but knowing that we must grovel, else risk our"protector's" largely unaccountable wrath.

Speaking of which:

Physical protection from criminal thugs is arguably the onlymoral service a cop can provide. But the truth is they don't provide even thismost elemental of services. Indeed, the Supremes have explicitly laid this out;i.e., cops have no duty to protect specific individuals from harm. Just"society." That means you are on your own where it matters most; theone area where most of us would agree having some back-up would be nice tohave.


Only, we don't have it. And more, should not expectit.

There's a great saying: I carry a gun because a cop is tooheavy.

Another: When seconds count, a cop is just minutes away.

In our very rural county, it would probably take a cop atleast 10-15 minutes (assuming he was fairly close by to start with) torespond to a 911 call. By the time he got here, it'd likely be over. Cops investigatecrime, you see – as distinct from protecting you from crime. It is animportant distinction. And the lesson to be taken from it is this:

If some SOB breaks into your home, it is up to you toprovide the .45 (or double 00) enema to said SOB.

Ditto when you are out on the streets. If you are accosted,the only person responsible for your physical safety – for your life – is you.

(If, that is, "the law" even permits this. Inseveral areas – Chicago and DC, for example – the only personages permitted topossess weapons are the cops and – de facto – the criminals. Use a weapon inself-defense in a "gun free" area and you have become thecriminal; the transgressor of "the law.")

So, what use are cops?

They spend their days catching "speeders,"fighting a "drug war" moral people are conscientiously opposed to andotherwise bothering (and sometimes, much worse) people who aren't harminganyone except possibly themselves (which in an ostensibly free society ought tobe as respected a right as the right to free exercise of religion).


The analogy here is the military. It is called nationaldefense but in reality it is national offense. The last time the UnitedStates unquestionably fought a war of defense was back in 1812. TheTroops – and the Cops (who are very often The Troops recycled) are there forlargely offensive purposes, both abroad and back here in the Homeland.

Enormous resources – our resources – are thrown downthe proverbial rathole subsidizing these activities, which are sanctified bythe term, "law enforcement" – which is usually sufficient to shut upany potential critics, who must certainly be Hippies or communists or who atthe very least hate Ahhhhmeerrrrikuh. (Where at least you know you'refree… etc.)

But the truth is most of the laws being enforced have verylittle do with keeping us from harming one another – or catching those who do.

Cops are on patrol for seatbelt scofflaws; lurking behindbillboards to nab ne'er do wells who travel faster than a sign says they may.Even cold-cocking jaywalkers (yes, this has actually happened).

Or Tazering moms in minivans who dare to talk back.

Meanwhile, child rapists on home release are not beingmonitored (see the Jaycee Dugard case; it's an example of the rule rather thanthe exception), old widows living alone are not being protected (except bythemselves) and if you're out walking the street at night, you best be preparedto defend yourself. Because the cops are just doing their job – and their jobhas very little do with protecting you from physical violence.

But they'll be sure to investigate whatever happensto you after it's all over with. Plenty of overtime pay, there.

 

[bear22099]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

To Serve and Protect … Or Harass and Collect?

by Eric Peters
EricPetersAutos.com

What good are cops, really?

I mean to the average, non-violent citizen just trying to goabout his business?

For him, cops are a nuisance – and increasingly, a threat.They don't protect his property; indeed, they spend their days trying to takeit away via enforcement of various and ever-increasing laws ranging from theminor ("speeding" fines) to the major (asset seizure for possessingor imbibing some substance the State has arbitrarily decreed to be"illegal"). Or maybe they're out enforcing "free speechzones" and/or giving wood shampoos to the Mundanes (that's WillGrigg's wonderful term – full credit given here).

Libertarian writers such as Grigg, among others, have notedthat most of us – very tellingly – do not feel "safe" when a coprolls up behind us. Or when we see one in general. In fact we feel nervousand stressed – because we know instinctively that the cop is mostemphatically not our "protector." We gird our loins, grit ourteeth. We hope the cop will "give us a break" – that is, decline tofully enforce the ukase he believes we've just transgressed. We become servile,mewling "yes sir, no sir" to some buzz-cut 24-year-old communitycollege graduate (a few have managed to achieve the full four-year degree in"criminal justice" or some such from Turnpike Tech), hating the soundof ourselves as we grovel but knowing that we must grovel, else risk our"protector's" largely unaccountable wrath.

Speaking of which:

Physical protection from criminal thugs is arguably the onlymoral service a cop can provide. But the truth is they don't provide even thismost elemental of services. Indeed, the Supremes have explicitly laid this out;i.e., cops have no duty to protect specific individuals from harm. Just"society." That means you are on your own where it matters most; theone area where most of us would agree having some back-up would be nice tohave.


Only, we don't have it. And more, should not expectit.

There's a great saying: I carry a gun because a cop is tooheavy.

Another: When seconds count, a cop is just minutes away.

In our very rural county, it would probably take a cop atleast 10-15 minutes (assuming he was fairly close by to start with) torespond to a 911 call. By the time he got here, it'd likely be over. Cops investigatecrime, you see – as distinct from protecting you from crime. It is animportant distinction. And the lesson to be taken from it is this:

If some SOB breaks into your home, it is up to you toprovide the .45 (or double 00) enema to said SOB.

Ditto when you are out on the streets. If you are accosted,the only person responsible for your physical safety – for your life – is you.

(If, that is, "the law" even permits this. Inseveral areas – Chicago and DC, for example – the only personages permitted topossess weapons are the cops and – de facto – the criminals. Use a weapon inself-defense in a "gun free" area and you have become thecriminal; the transgressor of "the law.")

So, what use are cops?

They spend their days catching "speeders,"fighting a "drug war" moral people are conscientiously opposed to andotherwise bothering (and sometimes, much worse) people who aren't harminganyone except possibly themselves (which in an ostensibly free society ought tobe as respected a right as the right to free exercise of religion).


The analogy here is the military. It is called nationaldefense but in reality it is national offense. The last time the UnitedStates unquestionably fought a war of defense was back in 1812. TheTroops – and the Cops (who are very often The Troops recycled) are there forlargely offensive purposes, both abroad and back here in the Homeland.

Enormous resources – our resources – are thrown downthe proverbial rathole subsidizing these activities, which are sanctified bythe term, "law enforcement" – which is usually sufficient to shut upany potential critics, who must certainly be Hippies or communists or who atthe very least hate Ahhhhmeerrrrikuh. (Where at least you know you'refree… etc.)

But the truth is most of the laws being enforced have verylittle do with keeping us from harming one another – or catching those who do.

Cops are on patrol for seatbelt scofflaws; lurking behindbillboards to nab ne'er do wells who travel faster than a sign says they may.Even cold-cocking jaywalkers (yes, this has actually happened).

Or Tazering moms in minivans who dare to talk back.

Meanwhile, child rapists on home release are not beingmonitored (see the Jaycee Dugard case; it's an example of the rule rather thanthe exception), old widows living alone are not being protected (except bythemselves) and if you're out walking the street at night, you best be preparedto defend yourself. Because the cops are just doing their job – and their jobhas very little do with protecting you from physical violence.

But they'll be sure to investigate whatever happensto you after it's all over with. Plenty of overtime pay, there.

Someone has some serious personal issues. I guess I am just foolish, been around for 52 years, and I don't cringe when I see a cop, don't break out in a cold sweat just because a cop car happens to be going the same direction I am and is staying behind me. I don't get nervous when I see the cop behind me using the computer. And I don't get all paranoid when I see a cop look at me as I drive by. Contrary to popular belief, they are not out to get you. You are out there to get you.

 

[Shaman]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

It never ceases to amaze me how bootlickers will call others spoiled and cowardly because they knowingly break the laws that are supposed to keep them safe instead of blindly accepting that these laws and the enforcement system behind them mean anything, do anything; are only for their own protection. You want cowardly? How about just doing what you're told and not questioning why? That's what cowards are made of.

 

[imkruzen]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

Someone has some serious personal issues. I guess I am just foolish, been around for 52 years, and I don't cringe when I see a cop, don't break out in a cold sweat just because a cop car happens to be going the same direction I am and is staying behind me. I don't get nervous when I see the cop behind me using the computer. And I don't get all paranoid when I see a cop look at me as I drive by. Contrary to popular belief, they are not out to get you. You are out there to get you.

Chuck Norris Approved!

There are minorities, masses an opinions.

 

[inreb]

Re: York Region Police and OPP announce CRACKDOWN ON SPORTBIKES

Someone has some serious personal issues. I guess I am just foolish, been around for 52 years, and I don't cringe when I see a cop, don't break out in a cold sweat just because a cop car happens to be going the same direction I am and is staying behind me. I don't get nervous when I see the cop behind me using the computer. And I don't get all paranoid when I see a cop look at me as I drive by. Contrary to popular belief, they are not out to get you. You are out there to get you.

Am totaly onboard with your thinking and, co-inkydinkly, am also 52. But.

I can't help feeling something might be amiss. A morphing of adittudes toward the general public? Every citizen could be a potential problem? Is it all the incidents gathered and crammed thru the cable that give the false impression that something ominous is happening with policing?

To clarify: before I started reading these anti police threads, cops weren't really on my radar. Now, I'd hate to run into cops who read these same threads.

 

[omnivore]

Re: Is HTA 172 really THAT unsuccessful?

Thanks for the props chick. I think you, and several others like you on this site, would benefit from being a victim of ANY of the "injustices" we should "remain vigilant" about. MOST of the " so i'm minding my own business....and this cop comes up to me..." stories are TOTAL BS. Made up so people can "fit into" the "culture" you ferment.

But dont worry. It's not just HERE. Most message boards have the very same dynamic going on. It's the kids wanting to "fit in". Been happening for years.

You may be right about the "most stories are BS", but I can assure you, if you ever ghappened to be the one in a hundred, innocent victim of an overzealous cop, you wouldn't feel so "oh well, the good of the many outweigh the good of the few....I will happily take one for the team" about it. It's no big deal to have crooked cops right?....Until it affects you personally. It only takes one dirty cop to mess up your life unjustly.

The cop who was busted for falsifying 172A charges was less than likely the only one guilty sonce Oct/07....but he was the one caught. Ask the people who were charged by him, what they think about the fact that they were personally in a minority, and then ask them if the balance of justly punished wrong-doers vs. innocent victims is okay with them.

Cops aren't innocent. Google "Jama Jama", the kid who was beaten up by 8 or 10 uniformed GTA cops at Carribanna, and then charged and incarcerated for multiple assualts on cops. Later a video from a bystander was released that showed no assaults on cops, but a number of cops beating down an innocent Jama Jama. Funny thing is that 10 cops involved, all had submitted formal statements upon Jama Jama's initial arrest, that stated he assaulted them. 10 cops, in one detachment, on one shift, all lied and perjured themselves......That is the reality of the blue line. Charges were all dropped. Had an innocent bystander not vidoe taped the whole altercation, an innocent man would forever had his life changed, by 10 malicious cops who forgot how, or don't care to, uphold the laws they swore to. DOn't pretend that bad cops are one in a million. I am of the opinion that as many as half of all cops would lie, cheat, steal, plant evidence, falsify information, or power-trip and wield their authority for personal satisfaction.....In my eyes, that makes half of all cops, bad cops.

 

[Shaman]

Re: Is HTA 172 really THAT unsuccessful?

You'd be wrong. Most cops will lie and maybe half of them enjoy being violent. It's not even just my opinion, my HR friend has so many "bad cop" stories from his work in the force that I can't keep up. The number of complaints coming in about police misconduct are epic.