Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%
  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%
  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%

  • Total voters
    111
I've been saying that for years. I think it was debated in a thread here a while ago (how the archiving process would work). I think having every officer wired for sound and video would protect clean officers and protect citizens from the dirty ones. Also I think it would help unclog our court system as people would be less likely to take frivilous cases to court when their is clear evidence of what did and didn't happen. Our court systems are clogged because we allow such low quality (and easily abusable) evidence into court (officers word vs defendant).

So many good things with having this. Courts is one reason, training would be an other for new recruites would be good to show what to do and what not to do. I honestly think that cops become cops for good reasons and somewhere along the line they become jaded or corrupted by the bad apples. With something like this there is no room for corruption. At least for uniformed officers.
 
i din't swear and name call, i just didn't want to waste anymore time.

thats why the post is left like that.

That's why he highlighted your post, to show as an example of how to be civil. It was a compliment.
 
So many good things with having this. Courts is one reason, training would be an other for new recruites would be good to show what to do and what not to do.

Sadly the number one roadblock toward implementing something like this would be the police association. They made a stink when Toronto wanted more cameras in the cars if I remember correctly.

And I 100% agree that most officers are attracted to the job for good reasons but like any position of authority it does attract the wrong type of person and policing has seemed to be unable to weed these individuals out during the recruitment phase. I would wager that the state of our modern police forces are due to mass hiring sprees and like anything done on mass the quality gets lowered. I have known several amazing people who got passed over to become officers and I know some real d-bags who are officers now. I know one of them is no longer an officer because he was doing drunk donuts in his police car in London or so I've heard. not surprising as he was the biggest drunk driver during highschool. The process should weed these people out and it isn't.

If you have been to Vancouver recently and seen the VPD it is a bunch of kids. I honestly didn't see a single officer on the street over the age of 20 (in appearance).
 
how many TPS cruisers have cameras again, please tell me the percentage. And yes, most have cameras that record the suspect in the rear BUT not the ones that are dash mounted to record the officer. those are the ones im talking about.


Two cameras, one to record the interior looking to the rear, one to record forward in front of the cruiser. Wireless microphones connected to the cruiser's audio-video recording system are clipped to cops' uniforms. Contents of audio-video recordings are automatically downloaded to a central server whenever the cruiser is within 300 meters of a police station.

TPS started installing cameras and recording devices in 2005. Currently only three out of Toronto's 18 police divisions remain that are not yet fully outfitted with them, but they are scheduled to be so equipped well before the end of this year, most likely before the end of the summer.

And it's not the cops complaining about the cameras. It's the civil liberties groups that are complaining about the cameras and raising privacy complaints about "surreptitious" surveillance and recording of words and actions by the public during police contact.
 
I think having every officer wired for sound and video would protect clean officers and protect citizens from the dirty ones.
There was a guy at U of T last year that was developing a personal vid/sound recording device, kind of a Bluetooth shape. If everyone at a large protest like last June's G20 had one of these units the cops would be much better
behaved. He called the act of recording authority figures 'sueveilance' as opposed to surveilance.
When questioned about his headgear he says "Officer, it's for your protection".
 
The Plutonian's numbers are increasing, it seems.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2011/02/08/17201061.html

"“He has been suspended with pay.” — A common line used when police officers are charged.
If you threatened to electrocute a person’s genitals, would you still get paid at your place of employment?
How about if you beat a homeless man to a pulp?
Full pay?
Most jobs, you’d be fired for a hell of a lot less.
But not, it seems, if you’re a Toronto Police officer.
For them, it appears, a criminal charge is a mere speed bump.
The imbalance was centre stage last week when media outlets reported three TTC bus drivers had been fired for cellphone images capturing them texting while driving.
If it’s true, it’s swift action taken, while police officers convicted of serious offences seem untouchable.
There’s an argument to pay officers before the courts because the allegations may be false.
But once convicted, shouldn’t the public purse stop paying?
How about the police union paying the legal bills?
Why are those who disgrace the job treated the same as those who perform it honourably?
For example, Constables Edward Ing and John Cruz, convicted last month of the assault causing bodily harm of 60-year-old Richard Moore, are currently in administrative roles while they await sentencing.
With their fellow officers said to be covering their legal bills, they’ll be paid until all of their legal options have been explored.
Same goes for Const. Christopher Hominuk, who pleaded guilty to one count of threatening bodily harm for threatening to Taser Robert James Bolgan “in the f---ing nuts.”
Toronto Police spokesman Mark Pugash called his actions “disgraceful, completely unacceptable and shocking.”
But it was not shocking enough to take away his badge or paycheque while he awaits sentencing.
There has been no talk about any of those three facing Police Act charges and possible dismissal.
And they wonder why the trust between the police and the public, for many, is broken!
You’ll notice none of these cases involved the G20, which is a whole other debacle, where there has also been absolutely no effort to repair the damage from that weekend.
Put them together and there’s a real problem with optics.
The one police officer charged for two counts of assault is also being paid in full while he awaits due process.
One high-ranking copper source tells me it’s the view of many senior officers that “any criminal conviction should result in firing” because “how can those officers ever testify in court again with any credibility?
How can they be trusted by supervisors and, more importantly, the public?”
Another idea is the establishment of an “independent prosecutor” to lay police act charges, but police brass feel this should not be necessary because they should have the power to fire.
Meanwhile, there are so many fine police officers who don’t deserve to be tarnished by those who’d harm a vulnerable elderly man or threaten torture.
Chief Bill Blair needs to accept that much of the public feels things are out of control.
Blair must address it in the same high-quality manner as when he led the city through the slaying of Sgt. Ryan Russell.
The public needs to hear that the police chief loathes abuse of power as much as they do.
My policing contacts advise me that Blair — through the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police — has worked hard to try to suspend without pay officers who break some criminal laws, but has so far been unsuccessful.
“Once convicted of a criminal offence, unless jailed, there’s no ability to cut pay unless convicted under the Police Services Act,” said a high-ranking copper. “An adjudicator may or may not fire a police officer for the alleged more minor criminal offences like theft under, common assault etc. So, we have thieves, fraudsters, stalkers, impaired drivers, people guilty of assault and threatening still carrying guns.”
The moral of the story isn’t only that these officers convicted in the courts are still getting paid but likely always will be.
And it’s you who’s doing the paying!"
 
Why don't they do the police service acts charges first and then if found guilty the union payment for legal defense and the payed vacation stop for the criminal trial.
 
I keep forgetting how frail and complicated you are. My bad lambshank.

And...you guys are on pluto. LOL. But carry on.

Would you care to try and explain your derision from your perfectly good and clear vantage point on another galaxy?
 
I keep forgetting how frail and complicated you are. My bad lambshank.

And...you guys are on pluto. LOL. But carry on.

Two questions...
1) Why do you always call people names?
2) Why don't you get banned for doing so?

So immature, almost like kids in a playground.
 
Sorry for going off topic but did those ttc employees really get fired for texting???
 
one set of ru;es for them one set of rules for us

it's rare that i agree with the sun. so they (the police) think parking rules don't apply to them when they're on break getting a donut (one assumes they are on break here because then otherwise they think their duty is to get donuts). Bold emphasis mine.

A Toronto Police officer believing coppers are “exempt” from parking rules does not require an inquiry.

Sometimes all that is needed is an apology.

And Toronto Police have shown they will offer one when warranted.

For example, Chief Bill Blair apologized to G20 alleged beating victim Adam Nobody for suggesting he may have been armed.

A 31 Division officer also apologized to the students and faculty at Osgoode Hall this week for his don’t dress like “sluts” advice to prevent being raped.

And now, hopefully, there will be a third mea culpa coming to a young, intern reporter here at the Toronto Sun named Victoria Gray.

It would be the classy thing to do.

Here’s how it lays out: Some coppers were having coffee Friday at Adelaide and Sherbourne when Gray is sent over by her editor to take a picture of two of the cars parked illegally.

She did and was walking back to the 333 King St. E. office when, she says, a police officer pulled a U-turn, followed her and then confronted her.

The essence of the conversation was on why she was taking the pictures and once that was established, it should have ended there.

In this democracy people are entitled to take pictures of anything they choose in a public space.

Police, EMS, TTC or city workers are not exempt. Many officers get this but there are still some who don’t.

That some police arrested, detained and physically restrained many journalists during the G20 was a disgrace. There should have been more outrage about that.

It’s too bad the leadership, political and policing, was not more respectful of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and it’s sad they don’t seem serious about addressing all that was broken there.

Gray says this officer told her, “we really don’t care because we’re exempt from the parking laws, you know.”

She says he also told her “sometimes the pictures don’t always find their way into the paper, you know,” thanks to his connections.

Victoria told me she was “scared” and “felt intimidated”.

We were teasing her it’s a good thing she wasn’t blowing bubbles or she could have spent a night in detention!

Small incident? Or telling of current attitudes? The police’s job is to enforce the law. They are never above it.

Certainly in emergency situations they can dump their scout car anywhere they choose but having a morning cup at Tim’s does not qualify.

Police are investigating this but it’s very possible upon reflection the officer feels bad about it.

Gray is certainly prepared to cut the copper some slack because their’s is a tough job, dangerous and busy.

However the problem has become in recent times the perceived lack of discretion shown toward the law-abiding public.

Much of the public are starting to see coppers as authoritarian figures who look to nail non-criminals in a sneaky speed trap while it seems near impossible to get a police car to come anywhere near your problem when a real criminal is victimizing you.

Meanwhile when police do wrong they seem to stick together and appear exempt from repercussions even when a court takes the rare stand to convict them.

Throw in the unresolved G20 fallout and what you have is an unfortunate division between the coppers and citizens that won’t be resolved until the top levels show some leadership and address it.


Victoria Gray was just doing her job and the copper was wrong to attempt to bully her.

But it’s nothing a little apology can’t fix.

joe.warmington@sunmedia.ca

how far does this two sets of rules go? intimidation? assault? theft? murder? we know the force attracts bullies, will this sort of behaviour ever be routed out? a populace should not be in fear of the police force working for them.
 
Re: one set of ru;es for them one set of rules for us

it's rare that i agree with the sun. so they (the police) think parking rules don't apply to them when they're on break getting a donut (one assumes they are on break here because then otherwise they think their duty is to get donuts). Bold emphasis mine.



how far does this two sets of rules go? intimidation? assault? theft? murder? we know the force attracts bullies, will this sort of behaviour ever be routed out? a populace should not be in fear of the police force working for them.

I don't think that the police force wants bullies. I think upper management wants sheep that can be trained to act like bullies. Look and act intimidating but not have the guts to to say no to issues like policing for profit and overhanded tactics at the G20.

Unfortunately if you don't follow orders you don't last long in a militaristic organization. The truly dedicated officers must find it frustrating to be caught between the dictators and the victims.

I grew up with a great admiration of the RCMP, Sgt Preston who always got his man but my lenses are a different colour now. All I hear about the RCMP now are stories of incompetence, tazering, drunk driving, hit and run etc. Stories abound of them ignoring the murder of hookers and natives because these people don't count. They also ignore the multi-million dollar fraud schemes because it would cost too much to investigate and prosecute.
 
Re: one set of ru;es for them one set of rules for us

I can't believe that a rag that I wouldn't even use as a birdcage liner could come up with a decent, well thought out piece like that. A pretty decent look at the widening gap between a certain group of public servants and people they're supposed to be serving. If even the Sun is discussing this worrysome trend, there may be some hope for our police services after all.
 
Re: one set of ru;es for them one set of rules for us

Don't see what the issue is with them parking closer even if they are on a break or low time in their shift. Would you rather they parked legally and get a call to something and have to be further from their cruiser and take longer to get to a call because of it?

His reaction and response to the woman taking the picture was unprofessional though and I do not agree that police officers have the right to talk like that to the public.
 
Re: one set of ru;es for them one set of rules for us

Would you rather they parked legally

Yes.

And while you're at it, would you tell them not to park on the sidewalk, and stay the **** out of the bicycle lanes while they take 20 minutes to go pick up that oh so important panini?

azzhat.jpg
 
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Re: one set of ru;es for them one set of rules for us

lol this is funny because if it was EMS or TFD no one would say one word.
 
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