Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%
  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%
  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%

  • Total voters
    111
Re: Suicide by cop

Detriot is one f'ed up town. The States just wish they could sweep that city under a rug somewhere.

I've only been there once. We stopped to fuel up. While we were fuelling up, 3 groups of "interesting individuals" showed up to look in on us and our brand new rental truck with CDN plates. We decided about 2hrs of driving was reasonably safe enough for us and $200,000 worth of gear to spend the night in a motel :cool:
 
Re: Suicide by cop

I've only been there once. We stopped to fuel up. While we were fuelling up, 3 groups of "interesting individuals" showed up to look in on us and our brand new rental truck with CDN plates. We decided about 2hrs of driving was reasonably safe enough for us and $200,000 worth of gear to spend the night in a motel :cool:

Born and raised in Windsor and know the feeling you speak, very well.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

I'm surprised to see this bickering still going on. I think its clear that there's someone in this thread who has no idea about training and risk assessment in policing...

Here's to balance in the universe. Every side needs its' turbodish:occasion7:
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

He needs psychic powers to know that the suspect would be carrying an edged weapon in a stabbing? Stop beating around the bush, tell me how the officer gets shot if he approaches the suspect with his gun drawn against a suspect without a gun.

Sure, as soon as you tell me how he's supposed to draw his weapon at a dead run, when he isn't supposed to draw it until the situation warrants it?
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

So slowing down and taking your hands out of your pockets to presumably raise them is not surrendering? So how much time should we give suspects to surrender 5 seconds?? The use of force is necessary when the cops life is in danger...show me where the cops life is in danger?


The pic Fastar1 posted doesn't show someone that looks as though they're surrendering. Maybe they were, maybe they were preparing to fight, maybe he had a short blade in his hand. Rasing your arms with closed fists is certainly not a passive stance.

So because someone else committed a crime, an innocent man is put in a coma? And you still havent told me how if he approaches a suspect who has his hands in his pocket with his gun and badge drawn the cop gets shot? Oh and the post facto information was a stabbing not a shooting....so again how does the cop get shot?

No, an innocent man is in a coma because an innocent man ran from the cops for no real reason. Does the suspect have his hand on a gun in his pocket? Would he need to pull that gun out of his pocket before firing at the cop?

What? So assume that everybody is guilty? Assume that a Beat, assault, shoot on site is warranted for any and every suspect?

He ran.. you keep forgetting that part..

He needs psychic powers to know that the suspect would be carrying an edged weapon in a stabbing? Stop beating around the bush, tell me how the officer gets shot if he approaches the suspect with his gun drawn against a suspect without a gun.

How would you know he didn't have a gun? How would the cop know he didn't have a gun in his pocket? He ran.. you keep forgetting that.. why did he run?

And that goes to the secondary issue, what did he to give the cop the reason other than run that he was the other person? Since when did running become proof? Since when did one person's identification become proof?

Running is resisting arrest in a lot of states. Again, why are you glazing over this? Is it because this simple fact destroys your entire argument? Prior to making the decision to run he had done nothing wrong and there would be no need for force of any kind. Further, nothing a cop sees is proof, that's why cops can only lay charges on behalf of the crown/state/etc. All they do is gather evidence, the incorrect ID was evidence (albeit faulty) but then the suspect chose to run instead of talking to the police. Running can be considered evidence of guilt, and running from the police is considered resisting arrest which in itself is an arrestable offence. Couple that with the fact that he's a suspect in a violent crime, could be considered armed and dangerous and I don't fault the officer for chosing that course of action.
 
Re: Suicide by cop

no offence intended to the families of any officers injured in this latest episode of stupidity, but at least this idiot walked into a building where the occupants could shoot back , not a school or hospital or grocery store.
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

negative... they won't get convicted of anything.... ill get $50 to anyone...



Send me $50, they have been found guilty and sentencing is Feb 8th, they intend to appeal the conviction via Toronto Services Union lawyers.
PM me an address and I'll have my people pick up the money, save you having to get it to me.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

RCW 9A.76.040 - Resisting arrest.

(1) A person is guilty of resisting arrest if he intentionally prevents or attempts to prevent a peace officer from lawfully arresting him.


(2) Resisting arrest is a misdemeanor.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Maybe the guy was ignorant of or in disagreement with the law. Should you jump off a bridge because you thought maybe the law said to?
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Surrendering to the cops, oftn becomes a one sided fight. As the accused is on the ground being cuffed, you will often hear the many participating officers reprimanding the accused for resistiuing, while they beat him up, even though the accused may not be resisting.

Anyone read the article last week , with quotes from the guy who was arrested from Sgt Ryan's funeral last week?
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Surrendering to the cops, oftn becomes a one sided fight. As the accused is on the ground being cuffed, you will often hear the many participating officers reprimanding the accused for resistiuing, while they beat him up, even though the accused may not be resisting.


That's proven to be an effective modality for working off frustration. I think it's against the law, not sure tho. The cops would know.
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

Send me $50, they have been found guilty and sentencing is Feb 8th, they intend to appeal the conviction via Toronto Services Union lawyers.
PM me an address and I'll have my people pick up the money, save you having to get it to me.

It's a conviction without any consequences. It's a facade conviction. If they spend any jail time I'll give you $50.
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

It's a conviction without any consequences. It's a facade conviction. If they spend any jail time I'll give you $50.

If you were convicted of assault (first offense) what are the chances you would do any jail time? More than likely none. You'd probably get probation and maybe some community service. A similar sentence and the loss of their jobs is appropriate.
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

The best is that you could not possibly know most of what you are stating to be "fact". The info you got is from news papers. LOL. And that is ok with you.

I just thought i'd put your "opinion" into perspective. You will never know 1/2 of the information needed to make a call of any kind on this.

i know. It's a hobby. Like all these threads. Spout away, but realize it has VERY LITTLE VALUE in seeking the truth of what actuallly happened. If you are cool with that, i'm cool with your "info".

See, when people like cops go and abuse their power against citizens it makes the news.

The disabled guy was pretty much given a beat down because the cops did not like his attitude.

The cops beat him up, for no reason, because they fully well beleived that nothing would come off it. That is very scary and cause for concern.

Worst case is pretty much what just happened. Two years with pay-- thats full pay. A bleamish on their record and still get to keep the job and pension, no chance at promotion, probely get stuck doing some crappy rotation,but thats about it.


Here is what i dont understand about cops in general.

Its pretty much common sense that in an organization as large as the TPS, there will be some bad apples. Just numbers, any organization, that large, will have people that abuse their authority, steal, cheat, game the system etc...

Rafi- you worked loss prevention at the retail level as you mentioned before, how much loss is employee related??

Now, most companies work hard at outing these clowns and hiring new employess-resources that confirm with company values. Now, you can never get rid of all the bad apples but you can weed out their numbers. All companies do this and its in their best interest to do so.

Now police, will protect their own employees- both the union and management are guilty of it. WHY?? why do they do this? it makes no sense to me from a business perspective or ethical-moral perspective or from a "law and order" perspective either.

They enforce the laws but when there own are caught, they set up the blue wall.

And the police supporters wonder why public is losing trust etc..
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

3 points for whipping this chit right back on topic :)

Agreed. Back to the point where people think they should have a say in what is right and wrong, with the hours of research they spend investigating the facts as presented by the sun/star and 680.

Carry on. For what it's worth....which anit much man. Can you imagine if someone was charged with convicting you based on what the media published? LOL.
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

If you were convicted of assault (first offense) what are the chances you would do any jail time? More than likely none. You'd probably get probation and maybe some community service. A similar sentence and the loss of their jobs is appropriate.

+1. I would guess they will get probation, community service and a conditional discharge as part of the sentence. Very similar to what anyone would get for an assault.
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

Agreed. Back to the point where people think they should have a say in what is right and wrong, with the hours of research they spend investigating the facts as presented by the sun/star and 680.

Carry on. For what it's worth....which anit much man. Can you imagine if someone was charged with convicting you based on what the media published? LOL.



You're always spouting off, but you NEVER give your (or ANY) alternative to every perceived erroneous report anyone (outside of turbo) posts. Without any real counterpoint, outside of your constant bleating that you're the only person in the know about what's really going on..........and the mods are out to get you because you're so smart, of course, your posts are pointless.
 
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Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

The best is that you could not possibly know most of what you are stating to be "fact". The info you got is from news papers. LOL. And that is ok with you.

I just thought i'd put your "opinion" into perspective. You will never know 1/2 of the information needed to make a call of any kind on this.

i know. It's a hobby. Like all these threads. Spout away, but realize it has VERY LITTLE VALUE in seeking the truth of what actuallly happened. If you are cool with that, i'm cool with your "info".


LOL, man, you crack me up, you think your the only guy in the world that knows cops or has access to other info??

But lets forget that part for now:

Diasbled man is arrested for drunk and disorderly
During the arrest the man is bruised and his ribs are broken
SIU finds that there was NO BASIS for the man's arrest
Blood tox tests show that he had zero alchol level
Cops are charged and will be appealing.

Why dont you tell us why there is now a "publication ban" in regards to the details of Sgt Ryan Russell's death?? Since your "in the know"
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

Why dont you tell us why there is now a "publication ban" in regards to the details of Sgt Ryan Russell's death?? Since your "in the know"

THIS part of it is understandable and is as it should be. The man in question needs to be tried in court. He deserves his day in court and is presumed innocent until guilty, just like everyone (that hasn't been victimized by HTA 172 ...) has the right to in this country. In order to do that, an impartial jury has to be found. In order to do *that*, the details of the event can't be made public knowledge yet, in the interest of not creating a bias in the general public, among whom the jury members will be chosen from.

Whatever is relevant will become public knowledge in due course ... just not right now.
 
Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

Its the fact that police need to be held to a higher level of accountability than Joe Public.....because ultimately they work for Joe Public. Being guilty of a crime (assault causing bodily harm x 2 cops), and getting a joke of a sentence, like staying at home watching Oprah while collecting a full paycheque, flies in the face of true justice. No person out in the public could count on this kind of lenience after being found guilty of such violence on an innoccent


You've got to be kidding me right??? Our judicial system is not on the side of the victim whatsoever. Go sit in at College Park or High court if you dare, there are people on there 6th gun charge (thats right I said 6th) getting under 2 years on a conviction and with the bull 3 to 1 dead time they're back out well before that.

Joe public as you like to put it, on an assault charge would walk out with a one year peace bond, maximum.

Held to a higher standard, agreed, and I'll put money on it that the officers will get the same if not more of a sentence that "joe public"
 
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