Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[skitta]

Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

I haven't read the article(s) so I don't know the details. Things I do know are that life is *not* fair, and *never* will be fair. People "in power" often abuse that power. Discrimination comes in all shapes, sizes and colours. No one is immune. Double standards are, unfortunately, a part/way of life

 

[Zed-X-Rex]

Don't you find it funny that employees can walk in and out whenever they want, but it's the customers who have their receipts checked and whatnot.. Well, it's a similar situation here... There is a strict double standard at work here. People in positions of huge public trust abuse the position and break the law but get away with a slap on the wrist (if the incidents get too public to get swept under a rug), while a civilian who commits the same crime would be looking at jail time.

3 points for whipping this chit right back on topic

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

I haven't read the article(s) so I don't know the details. Things I do know are that life is *not* fair, and *never* will be fair. People "in power" often abuse that power. Discrimination comes in all shapes, sizes and colours. No one is immune. Double standards are, unfortunately, a part/way of life

That's why it's our duty to raise a public stink and to do our damnedest best to reduce it as much as possible. Even when we're not directly affected, by building a more fair and equitable society, we are doing ourselves a great service.

 

[omnivore]

Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

It's not a cop hater thing.

Its the fact that police need to be held to a higher level of accountability than Joe Public.....because ultimately they work for Joe Public. Being guilty of a crime (assault causing bodily harm x 2 cops), and getting a joke of a sentence, like staying at home watching Oprah while collecting a full paycheque, flies in the face of true justice. No person out in the public could count on this kind of lenience after being found guilty of such violence on an innoccent, and physically disabled person unable to defend themselves (2 highly trained combattants on 1 disabled man, I might add). The 2 cops basically get a 2 yr vacation while being paid upwards of $150,000 while on vacation, and having all of their legal fees covered in the process.

Joe Public is being made a mockery of by the blue line. Cops are making it obvious to the taxpaying citizens that they are above the law...they don't even try to hide it.......And we take it lying down.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

So because someone else committed a crime, an innocent man is put in a coma? And you still havent told me how if he approaches a suspect who has his hands in his pocket with his gun and badge drawn the cop gets shot? Oh and the post facto information was a stabbing not a shooting....so again how does the cop get shot?

So you're attributing psychic powers to the officer in question?

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

So you're attributing psychic powers to the officer in question?

He needs psychic powers to know that the suspect would be carrying an edged weapon in a stabbing? Stop beating around the bush, tell me how the officer gets shot if he approaches the suspect with his gun drawn against a suspect without a gun.

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Absolutely!! Are you saying that "Innocent before proven guilty" no longer applies??

Did you even watch the video? If the cop approaches the suspect from the exact same angle he did with his gun and badge drawn how exactly does he get stabbed in the neck??

LOL he isn't being judged, he is being stopped for questioning. You can refuse to cooperate but if the matter is one of a violent crime then they will attempt to apprehend you until they can ascertain your level (or not) of involvement.

The way you seem to be depicting a cop's right to detain someone, then if the cops were responding to a call of a bank robbery in progress and arrived on the scene just as an individual with a mask and a bag of overflowing money was leaving, they would have no right to forcibly detain him because 1- their safety is not at risk, and 2- they can't prove that this guy robbed the bank.

Please show me the difference between my suspected bank robber and this case of the suspected armed assailant.

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

So because someone else committed a crime, an innocent man is put in a coma?

No, it's because the runner gave the cop every reason to believe that he was that other person. Your post-facto information is that it was someone else, but the cop was acting on the information he had AT THE TIME, and his actions were justified by that information, incorrect as it turned out to be.

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

What? So assume that everybody is guilty? Assume that a Beat, assault, shoot on site is warranted for any and every suspect?

Again, no. Assume that everyone who runs from the cops is guilty? Yes.

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

So slowing down and taking your hands out of your pockets to presumably raise them is not surrendering? So how much time should we give suspects to surrender 5 seconds?? The use of force is necessary when the cops life is in danger...show me where the cops life is in danger?

How much time isn't really the issue, we can all raise our arms in a few tenths of a second and he had at least that much time to act. The question of time is more about timing... he should have indicated surrender the very first moment after deciding to surrender instead of slowing down and turning to face the cop with his hands at his sides. He only started to raise his arms at the very last second which looks like it was a defensive reaction more than an act of surrender, and he still didn't get his arms more than half way up before he was hit.

It's easy to show where the cops life was in danger in the attached picture. It shows the cop about a foot away from the suspect with good reason to believe that he was armed. This is the point at which he could have been shot or stabbed if the runner was so inclined. It's also the reason why it made a lot more sense for the cop to shove him than to tackle him, as he would remain within striking distance of the suspect if he had tackled him and they went to the ground together.

 

[turbodish]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

It's easy to show where the cops life was in danger in the attached picture. It shows the cop about a foot away from the suspect with good reason to believe that he was armed. This is the point at which he could have been shot or stabbed if the runner was so inclined. It's also the reason why it made a lot more sense for the cop to shove him than to tackle him, as he would remain within striking distance of the suspect if he had tackled him and they went to the ground together.

Bingo.

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

How much time isn't really the issue, we can all raise our arms in a few tenths of a second and he had at least that much time to act. The question of time is more about timing... he should have indicated surrender the very first moment after deciding to surrender instead of slowing down and turning to face the cop with his hands at his sides. He only started to raise his arms at the very last second which looks like it was a defensive reaction more than an act of surrender, and he still didn't get his arms more than half way up before he was hit.

It's easy to show where the cops life was in danger in the attached picture. It shows the cop about a foot away from the suspect with good reason to believe that he was armed. This is the point at which he could have been shot or stabbed if the runner was so inclined. It's also the reason why it made a lot more sense for the cop to shove him than to tackle him, as he would remain within striking distance of the suspect if he had tackled him and they went to the ground together.

Now if the cop is coming toward the suspect with his gun drawn in the second before that...what danger is there to him? You can clearly see the man see the cop coming at him a second or two at the most before he is hit, clearly the cop has the element of surprise...if the cop has his gun drawn, pointing at the suspect who still has his hands in his pocket....what immediate danger is there to the cop?

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Again, no. Assume that everyone who runs from the cops is guilty? Yes.

Why? Why assume that just because somebody runs they are guilty? When did running become proof of guilt?

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

No, it's because the runner gave the cop every reason to believe that he was that other person. Your post-facto information is that it was someone else, but the cop was acting on the information he had AT THE TIME, and his actions were justified by that information, incorrect as it turned out to be.

And that goes to the secondary issue, what did he to give the cop the reason other than run that he was the other person? Since when did running become proof? Since when did one person's identification become proof?

 

[nobbie48]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

LOL he isn't being judged, he is being stopped for questioning. You can refuse to cooperate but if the matter is one of a violent crime then they will attempt to apprehend you until they can ascertain your level (or not) of involvement.

The way you seem to be depicting a cop's right to detain someone, then if the cops were responding to a call of a bank robbery in progress and arrived on the scene just as an individual with a mask and a bag of overflowing money was leaving, they would have no right to forcibly detain him because 1- their safety is not at risk, and 2- they can't prove that this guy robbed the bank.

Please show me the difference between my suspected bank robber and this case of the suspected armed assailant.

Reasonable grounds is a form of judgement and necessary evil.

That said, a person can ignore a police request due to a number of legitimate reasons. Deafness, poor eyesight, past history from other countries with crooked cops, paranoia. Can you understand a person for running from a banana republic cop?

If you witnessed a gangland killing in Canada you barely have the right to defend your self and the police won't babysit you. Can you understand why someone wouldn't want to get involved?

However I don't see any anwer to the question of the compensaton to the victim if they are harmed by police erronious action. Tough Luck????

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Why? Why assume that just because somebody runs they are guilty? When did running become proof of guilt?

And that goes to the secondary issue, what did he to give the cop the reason other than run that he was the other person? Since when did running become proof? Since when did one person's identification become proof?

Who says it's proof? You're saying proof, all we're saying is it's reason to ASSUME that the guy is guilty and to direct one's actions accordingly. The proof comes later.

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Reasonable grounds is a form of judgement and necessary evil.

That said, a person can ignore a police request due to a number of legitimate reasons. Deafness, poor eyesight, past history from other countries with crooked cops, paranoia. Can you understand a person for running from a banana republic cop?

If you witnessed a gangland killing in Canada you barely have the right to defend your self and the police won't babysit you. Can you understand why someone wouldn't want to get involved?

However I don't see any anwer to the question of the compensaton to the victim if they are harmed by police erronious action. Tough Luck????

People can run from the cops for whatever reason they want. In every part of the world evasion suggests guilt and the runner will be treated as such. That person's rational or irrational reasons for running aren't relevant, they will always be considered an much stronger suspect for attempting to evade the cops. It's pretty much a universal truth and as a bonus, it makes a hell of a lot of sense (to sensible people).

The cops didn't do anything wrong here, they did what made sense (to sensible people).

 

[BusaBob]

Re: Suicide by cop

the guy didn't wear armour because he didn't expect to survive.

bombs are incredibly easy to make...if you're not retarded. fortunately, most nutjobs are retarded.

police are grossly under-equipped for such extreme scenarios (due to the need to present an "open" appearance to the public)

 

[killerkeith]

Re: Suicide by cop

Detriot is one f'ed up town. The States just wish they could sweep that city under a rug somewhere.

 

[Wheelieboy]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

I'm surprised to see this bickering still going on. I think its clear that there's someone in this thread who has no idea about training and risk assessment in policing...