Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Not running in the first place when approached by the cops doesn't count as an opportunity to surrender? How very odd.

There are conflicting reports as to whether he knew he was being chased by cops or by some big dudes in black army fatigues. Also even if you run, when did that automatically negate your opportunity to surrender later?

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

A screwdriver is a weapon. A flashlight is a weapon. A hockey stick or baseball bat is a weapon.

Situationally.

Two very valid questions are why he was running, and why was he in possession of a screwdriver? The actions of the officer were excessive but only in light of the revelation, of mistaken identity. Given that mistaken identity, the heat of the chase, and the reports that the suspect being sought was in possession of a weapon the officer's actions were reasonable, even if the outcome was not. You can't consider the last 10 seconds of an incident, without also considering the actions that led to it.

The officer's actions were excessive in any light. Throw out the fact that the man was innocent. Throw out the fact that he may or may not have known he was being chased by cops. Why was he not given the opportunity to surrender? Even post chase, its clear the cop was in a position to show a badge and if needed a gun to stop the suspect? 10 seconds of video or not its clear the cop didnt give the suspect the opportunity to put up his hands when he stopped.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

The officer's actions were excessive in any light. Throw out the fact that the man was innocent. Throw out the fact that he may or may not have known he was being chased by cops. Why was he not given the opportunity to surrender? Even post chase, its clear the cop was in a position to show a badge and if needed a gun to stop the suspect? 10 seconds of video or not its clear the cop didnt give the suspect the opportunity to put up his hands when he stopped.

And your take-down of a presumed armed suspect, who was identified by a bystander would have been.....?

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

And your take-down of a presumed armed suspect, who was identified by a bystander would have been.....?

Show your badge and gun "Police officer! put your hands up"...what is he going to do? Again he's not Batman. So what your saying is that from now on Cops should throw "suspects" into walls on sight? No chance to surrender? No chance to put their hands up to show that they dont have anything? Also lets bear in mind that he was identified as a suspect by some lady on the street...thats all it takes to get branded as a knife wielding maniac now?

 

[caboose56]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

There are conflicting reports as to whether he knew he was being chased by cops or by some big dudes in black army fatigues. Also even if you run, when did that automatically negate your opportunity to surrender later?

Don't make blanket statements. Since when should you be granted another opportunity to surrender after you already chose to run?

If the circumstances dictate that you can give up and visibly surrender (ie, put your hands up and get on your knees, or lay face down on the ground with your hands out) then there would be no need for a forceful takedown. If the circumstances dictate that you do not have sufficient time, space, visibility, etc, to clearly surrender and stand down then that's what the circumstances dictate and that's the risk the runner took.

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Don't make blanket statements. Since when should you be granted another opportunity to surrender after you already chose to run?

If the circumstances dictate that you can give up and visibly surrender (ie, put your hands up and get on your knees, or lay face down on the ground with your hands out) then there would be no need for a forceful takedown. If the circumstances dictate that you do not have sufficient time, space, visibility, etc, to clearly surrender and stand down then that's what the circumstances dictate and that's the risk the runner took.

Since common sense, since people have always had a flight or fight response in them when being chased by people. Since we live in a civilized society in which even we don't assume everybody is a crazed lunatic.

So if a suspect runs, stops and puts his hands up those arent circumstances for a normal non-forcefull take down?

 

[blackcamaro]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Moreno636, Answer this. At 1:18 of that video like Turbodish pointed out are you telling us you cannot make out on some crappy security camera those are cops?

Also the guy had 2 1/2 blocks to surrender, the idea of the cops playing nice was long gone and imo rightfully so.

When I was in my teens doing stupid stuff like drinking in parks we would run if we saw cops. I would have had ZERO issue if I got taken down like that, it was our own stupidty for running just like it was this guys (I probably didn't realise it at that then though). He made the choices that night no one else.

 

[turbodish]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Even post chase, its clear the cop was in a position to show a badge and if needed a gun to stop the suspect? 10 seconds of video or not its clear the cop didnt give the suspect the opportunity to put up his hands when he stopped.

The cop was WEARING his badge and police insignia on his uniform shirt right from the start. The gun was in his holster strapped to his waist right from the start. This guy ran because he knew it was the cops. He had opportunity to peacefully surrender before he ran. He did not.

 

[caboose56]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Since common sense, since people have always had a flight or fight response in them when being chased by people. Since we live in a civilized society in which even we don't assume everybody is a crazed lunatic.

So if a suspect runs, stops and puts his hands up those arent circumstances for a normal non-forcefull take down?

That crazy axe murderer is running away, dont shoot him or anything because he still deserves an opportunity to surrender. We wouldn't want anyone to think the Police were using too much force.

 

[twinn]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

There is much more to this story-- guy was running for a reason- that reason we do not know. But we do know that the person does not have any reason (no warrents etc..) to be running from the cops and was not found with drugs or a weapon on his person. Very well could have been running from someone-something else ans was at the wrong time/place

Either way, that cop was way over the top in his dealings with the suspect.

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Moreno636, Answer this. At 1:18 of that video like Turbodish pointed out are you telling us you cannot make out on some crappy security camera those are cops?

Also the guy had 2 1/2 blocks to surrender, the idea of the cops playing nice was long gone and imo rightfully so.

When I was in my teens doing stupid stuff like drinking in parks we would run if we saw cops. I would have had ZERO issue if I got taken down like that, it was our own stupidty for running just like it was this guys (I probably didn't realise it at that then though). He made the choices that night no one else.

They are dressed in all black fatigues. At night from across the street it is very possible that the man didnt know he was being chased by cops, you and I werent there we dont know what happened.

But what we do know is that when the suspect did slow down and take his hands out of his pockets he didnt get the chance to surrender.

If you think its ok for you to be treated like a knife wielding serial killer for drinking in the parks and then running from the cops I feel sorry for you.

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

The cop was WEARING his badge and police insignia on his uniform shirt right from the start. The gun was in his holster strapped to his waist right from the start. This guy ran because he knew it was the cops. He had opportunity to peacefully surrender before he ran. He did not.

STFU....stop acting like you know why this guy ran, you dont so again stop with your bulls..t.

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

That crazy axe murderer is running away, dont shoot him or anything because he still deserves an opportunity to surrender. We wouldn't want anyone to think the Police were using too much force.

Right everybody who runs from the cops are crazy axe murderers. Lets kill them all...

 

[blackcamaro]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

They are dressed in all black fatigues. At night from across the street it is very possible that the man didnt know he was being chased by cops, you and I werent there we dont know what happened.

But what we do know is that when the suspect did slow down and take his hands out of his pockets he didnt get the chance to surrender.

If you think its ok for you to be treated like a knife wielding serial killer for drinking in the parks and then running from the cops I feel sorry for you.

So I guess you can tell on a grainy video camera at night it is a cop then if you won't answer. Personally my vision is a lot better in real life then what I can see on that camera and it is REAL easy to spot those guys as cops.

The suspect who has now been running for 2 1/2 blocks is now taking his hands out of his pockets to possibly fight. If he wanted to surrender he should've done it a while ago, now it's a little late. Again his fault no one elses.

The point I was trying to make is if you don't play by the rules (such as running) bad things are going to happen and it is going to multiply at a pretty fast rate. Don't feel sorry for me, I'am alright.

 

[caboose56]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Right everybody who runs from the cops are crazy axe murderers. Lets kill them all...

Right everybody who runs from the cops are incorrectly identified and are innocent. Lets err on the side of caution because we'd rather them get away or have a cop stabbed in the neck with a screwdriver than have of them get hurt....

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

There are conflicting reports as to whether he knew he was being chased by cops or by some big dudes in black army fatigues. Also even if you run, when did that automatically negate your opportunity to surrender later?

That argument only works one way.

Either he thought he was being chased by thugs and decided to stop and confront them, or he realised he was being chased by cops and decided to surrender. Except his decision to surrender didn't involve any form or gesture of surrender of any kind. He had more than 2 seconds (not 0:01 seconds) to surrender. The FIRST thing he should have done as soon as he realised it was a cop and wanted to surrender (if that was his thought) was put his arms in the air, not slow down and turn to face the cop.

What he ended up doing is exactly what he would be expected to do if he decided to confront a thug.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Show your badge and gun "Police officer! put your hands up"...what is he going to do? Again he's not Batman. So what your saying is that from now on Cops should throw "suspects" into walls on sight? No chance to surrender? No chance to put their hands up to show that they dont have anything? Also lets bear in mind that he was identified as a suspect by some lady on the street...thats all it takes to get branded as a knife wielding maniac now?

Bang. You're dead.

 

[Freestyle72]

Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

Keeping to our recent GTAM theme.

Two Toronto police constables have been found guilty of assaulting a disabled man in October 2009.
Edward Ing and John Cruz were charged in October after an investigation was launched by the province’s Special Investigations Unit.
The SIU says Richard Moore, 58 at the time, was walking home on April 24 2009 when he passed the two officers dealing with another person.
The unit alleges words were exchanged between the officers and Mr. Moore, followed by a physical altercation.
The decision to charge the officers was made by Justice Elliott Allen at Brampton courthouse Tuesday morning according to Brendan Crawley, a spokesperson for The Ministry of Attorney General.
A sentencing date will be set on February 8.
With files from the Canadian Press.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-of-assaulting-a-disabled-man/article1882212/

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

This means that Milan Rupic must have been on vacation

 

[Biggsy]

Re: Two Toronto police officers found guilty of assaulting a disabled man

Isolated incident - just like all the others.