Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[ToSlow]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Just two incident in a year? I guess that shows you are unable to read. That's what's really sad - that someone could be so willfully illiterate in this day and age.



Interesting that you brought up forks. Did you bother to read any of the "fork crime" incidents? Most of them appear to occur in the home, in other words forks used as weapons because they happened to be easily at hand in a heat of a moment argument in the home setting.

On the other hand, the links of screwdriver stabbings show most screwdriver attacks committed away from the home or workshop, in places where one would not ordinarily expect to have a ready supply of screwdrivers. That suggests a certain degree of premeditation in choosing to carry the screwdriver away from its ordinary place of use. Why would someone carry a screwdriver when going out bar-hopping? To help fix the beer taps?




You have got to be kidding. The running was what exposed the cops to the potential dangers. In any case have look around. Running on foot after being ordered to stop by police is considered actively resisting arrest in most states. People have been charged and convicted for doing so in Ontario as well.

i often see truck drivers out checking tires with a club. is this a weapon

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Just two incident in a year? I guess that shows you are unable to read. That's what's really sad - that someone could be so willfully illiterate in this day and age.



Interesting that you brought up forks. Did you bother to read any of the "fork crime" incidents? Most of them appear to occur in the home, in other words forks used as weapons because they happened to be easily at hand in a heat of a moment argument in the home setting.

On the other hand, the links of screwdriver stabbings show most screwdriver attacks committed away from the home or workshop, as part of street crime in places where one would not ordinarily expect to have a ready supply of screwdrivers. That suggests a certain degree of premeditation in choosing to carry the screwdriver away from its ordinary place of use. Why would someone carry a screwdriver when going out bar-hopping? To help fix the beer taps?

There were at the most 5 or 6...again this means nothing. Typing in " stab police screwdriver" and looking at google results is idiotic...in this day and age to be so willfully ignorant and manipulative is disgusting. Because forks were used at home and screwdrivers were used outside of the house means absolutely nothing. Just like me typing in "stab police forks" means absolutely squat. But since you want to descend into irrelevant minutia, I didnt see any cops being stabbed with screwdriver so again your point is moot.

You have got to be kidding. The running was what exposed the cops to the potential dangers. In any case have look around. Running on foot after being ordered to stop by police is considered actively resisting arrest in most states. People have been charged and convicted for doing so in Ontario as well.

Wrong again....it was the circumstances.

Under the plain language of the statute, resisting arrest occurs when a person "creates a substantial risk" of injuring an officer (emphasis added). The defendant's argument ignores the plain language of the statute in two respects. He places the burden whether a risk was created on the officer's behavior rather than on the "person" creating it. By arguing that the officers must have been actively subject to the risk, i.e., attempting to scale the fence, he also ignores the statute's focus on criminalizing the "creation" of the risk.


Our focus on the creation of a risk is consistent with the comment 2 to § 242.2 of the Model Penal Code ("offense reaches certain situations in which the circumstances of flight from arrest expose the pursuing officers to substantial danger"). Moreover, in Commonwealth v. Grandison, 433 Mass. 135, 144-145 (2001), this court concluded that because Grandison's stiffening of his arms and his momentarily breaking free of an officer's grip "could have caused one of the officers to be struck or otherwise injured," he created a risk of causing bodily injury within the meaning of the statute.


Here, after the police attempted to arrest the defendant at the stairs:


"[He] chose to continue his flight. With the officers in pursuit, he fled by foot across a parking lot and down a ramp running alongside buildings, climbed over a chain link fence, and jumped twenty-five feet into the shallow canal. At that point the officers were about thirty feet from the fence.[(6)] It was late at night and the area was poorly lit. The fence stood at the edge of the canal and had no appreciable 'ledge' on its other side that would permit a person to land or stand."

Commonwealth v. Montoya, supra. Viewing these circumstances in the light most favorable to the Commonwealth, a rational jury could have concluded that the defendant created a substantial risk of bodily injury to the officers. As the Commonwealth points out, the risk of bodily injury came from the fence located at the precipice of the canal, which presented a tripping hazard, especially in the dim light, as well as from the canal itself whose bottom had a "pretty deep" layer of muck and mire and which was deep enough that the defendant had to tread water until his rescue. There was no error.

 

[nobbie48]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

Police are merely here to enforce laws and bring offenders to justice after the fact. They have no legal obligation to defend or protect you.

Serve and Protect has become Serve and Collect.

 

[RockerGuy]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

Serve and Protect has become Serve and Collect.

LOLz

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

The accused's lawyer was on CHCH TV tonight. The house has been systematically firebombed 3 times. Twice in broad daylight. You can hear them screaming "you're gonna die" in the second video. The neighbour had been previously convicted of uttering death threats. On the evening in question the attackers fled into the neerby woods, but lurked in the treeline. The cops took 22 minutes to respond to a third arson attack.

Screw firing over their heads, he should have shot them.

 

[turbodish]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

There were at the most 5 or 6...again this means nothing.

Far more than that. Screwdrivers used as offensive weapons is fairly common in street crime, especially among youth. You can carry one and even if found with one have a much better chance of avoiding the virtually guaranteed criminal consequences of being found in possession of a concealed blade of similar size. So why again was he out doing the bars with a screwdriver in his pocket? What an interesting coincidence.

Wrong again....it was the circumstances.

Washington state law on resisting arrest is quite broad and makes no reference whatsoever to circumstances. And circumstances even where required to be an aggravating factor can only come into play after the suspect has already started running. Either way, he was ordered to stop by police. He ran. He did not get away. His problem, not the cops'. Choosing to run was stupid, and now he has to live with the outcome.

RCW 9A.76.040
Resisting Arrest
(1) A person is guilty of resisting arrest if he intentionally prevents or attempts to prevent a peace officer from lawfully arresting him.

Anyways, maybe you could help defend this poor Ontario boy. "Taylor Wilkinson, 23, was convicted of having possession of one gram of methamphetamine and resisting arrest by running from police. He was sentenced to time served, having spent 27 days in pretrial custody."

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Far more than that. Screwdrivers used as offensive weapons is fairly common in street crime, especially among youth. You can carry one and even if found with one have a much better chance of avoiding the virtually guaranteed criminal consequences of being found in possession of a concealed blade of similar size. So why again was he out doing the bars with a screwdriver in his pocket? What an interesting coincidence.

Bullsh.t....show proof...and by that I mean real legitimate studies and statistics. He was carrying a screwdriver for whatever reason he wanted to, who the hell are you to question why he has a perfectly legal tool in his possession at any time.

Washington state law on resisting arrest is quite broad and makes no reference whatsoever to circumstances. And circumstances even where required to be an aggravating factor can only come into play after the suspect has already started running. Either way, he was ordered to stop by police. He ran. He did not get away. His problem, not the cops'. Choosing to run was stupid, and now he has to live with the outcome.

Your right it is broad, so it could or couldn't apply to this case. So either way its a moot point. Secondly there is also evidence to suggest that he didnt hear the cops identify themselves. For all he knows he saw a couple of big guys in black chasing him. So again him running away is a moot point

Anyways, maybe you could help defend this poor Ontario boy. "Taylor Wilkinson, 23, was convicted of having possession of one gram of methamphetamine and resisting arrest by running from police. He was sentenced to time served, having spent 27 days in pretrial custody."

What in the world does this have to do with the price of tea in china?

 

[RockerGuy]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

The accused's lawyer was on CHCH TV tonight. The house has been systematically firebombed 3 times. Twice in broad daylight. You can hear them screaming "you're gonna die" in the second video. The neighbour had been previously convicted of uttering death threats. On the evening in question the attackers fled into the neerby woods, but lurked in the treeline. The cops took 22 minutes to respond to a third arson attack.

Screw firing over their heads, he should have shot them.

Damn!
Screw direct firing, if they came some many times he should of smarten up and set land mines w/ Shotgun shells. A nail and shotgun shell makes a mean landmine, let me not get carried away

In that way he could have sleep soundly until he was awaken by the sweet sound of a shotgun blast in the distance

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Absolutely wait and see what he is doing. What kind of logic is that? Just tackle everybody without giving them the chance to surrender???

If. They. RUN!

Whether he ran or not isnt the point. He stopped and should be given the opportunity to surrender, and if there is a need to take him down...take him down, not plow him into a wall. Suspects last time I checked were just that suspects, not criminals. They should be given the opportunity to surrender and be taken into custody humanely. This isnt some bad 80's cop movie, everybody who runs from the cops arent doing it so they can set up an ambush with 4 of his other mob syndicate buddies.

He had a chance to surrender when he decided to stop running, but he didn't surrender did he?

 

[streeetfighter]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

He should have called the Police, they would shoot him with a taser and kick him in his face.

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

If. They. RUN!

SO WHAT? They should still be given the opportunity to surrender

He had a chance to surrender when he decided to stop running, but he didn't surrender did he?

Watch the video...how much time did he get to surrender? 0.2 seconds at the most a whole second before he got levelled?

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

So let's tally things up...

3 firebombings
+ setting traps can result with years in jail
+ the person who sent those people to commit attempted murder on 3 occasions got no jail time
+ you can't get a gun permit if you wanna use it to protect yourself
+ even if you do have a weapon and use it to save your life, you get arrested
+ 22min to respond to a 3rd arson attack
+ 0 additional charges for the person who sent those firebombing bums
___________________________________________________________________________
= One ****ed up situation due to our legal system and incompetent law enforcement

 

[bigguy1]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

Seven guns would be hardly adequate to form a collection and a meager number for a seasoned target shooter. Three guns would be adequate for home defence - a shotgun for inside the house, a rifle for outside use and a handgun as backup and close quarter defence.

I believe the article says the victim was a firearms instructor and target shooter. Anyway, a firearms instructor would need at the very least a pump action shotgun, break action shotgun, a lever action rifle, a bolt action rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, a revolver and a semi-automatic handgun to familiarize students with safe handling of the different types of firearms.

He was a former firearms instructor. I know many of the instructors use firearms that are no longer in working order as they have to provide the different types themselves. It can get costly. He may very well have sold off his instructors set to someone else. I do agree with you that 7 firearms is hardly a collection. Firearms are like tattoos, you can't stop at one.

 

[Flashmonkey]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

So wait....if he hired a buncha goons to firebomb his neighbour's house a couple of times wouldn't he get off scot-free too? Is that how this works?

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

The guy enters the frame of the video at 0:01 and is bowled over at 0:03. And that's only what we see. He didn't enter into view at full speed so he had already slowed down some time before that, meaning he had more than 2 seconds to indicate that he was surrendering. So he had plenty of time to show that he was suddenly going to comply with the officer, and after running the onus would be entirely on him to make it very clear that he is complying since he has made such an effort NOT to comply up until then.

Anyways, please stop inventing stories around this video if you want to continue discussing this issue with me.

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

The guy enters the frame of the video at 0:01 and is bowled over at 0:03. And that's only what we see. He didn't enter into view at full speed so he had already slowed down some time before that, meaning he had more than 2 seconds to indicate that he was surrendering. So he had plenty of time to show that he was suddenly going to comply with the officer, and after running the onus would be entirely on him to make it very clear that he is complying since he has made such an effort NOT to comply up until then.

Anyways, please stop inventing stories around this video if you want to continue discussing this issue with me.

Whose inventing anything? He enters the frame at 0:01 and takes his hands out of his pockets at 0:02 and then is bowled over at 0:03...so please tell me how is 0:01 seconds enough time? Since when did we start measuring the time we get to surrender in seconds?? WTF so your telling me a man gets lets say 5 seconds to surrender before he is almost killed? Are you serious we are now down to seconds? Again stop believing these myths that every suspect is some sort of a super villain with super speed, super strength and freaking lasers shooting out their eyes. It was excessive any way you look at it.....seconds...unbelievable people are now given SECONDS to surrender.

 

[caboose56]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

SO WHAT? They should still be given the opportunity to surrender

Watch the video...how much time did he get to surrender? 0.2 seconds at the most a whole second before he got levelled?

Not running in the first place when approached by the cops doesn't count as an opportunity to surrender? How very odd.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Re: Suicide by cop

It just goes to show how armed individuals can twart a mass shooting attempt. So much for the argument that these nut-jobs never target police stations.

Could be some anti-gun nut martyring himself in order to push a ban on guns.

Imagine how much longer he would have lasted if he had body armor (which you can purchase). I suspect he wasn't a martyr, just some one that hated cops.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA


He just called a screwdriver a weapon!!! I have seen it all now...WOW.

This is by far the most despicable things I have ever seen you post. Not only have you placed suspicion on an innocent man (cleared by the police), but you have made it seem that the innocent man was carrying a weapon (screwdriver) by juxtaposition it to another completely unrelated set of events. Absolutely disgusting.

A screwdriver is a weapon. A flashlight is a weapon. A hockey stick or baseball bat is a weapon.

Situationally.

Two very valid questions are why he was running, and why was he in possession of a screwdriver? The actions of the officer were excessive but only in light of the revelation, of mistaken identity. Given that mistaken identity, the heat of the chase, and the reports that the suspect being sought was in possession of a weapon the officer's actions were reasonable, even if the outcome was not. You can't consider the last 10 seconds of an incident, without also considering the actions that led to it.

 

[CanadianBiker]

Re: Suicide by cop

http://www.freep.com/article/201101...fficers-shot-gunman-dead-in-horrifying-attack

It doesn't say why the guy walked into the police station and started shooting, but I suspect you will see more of this.



Yes I think changes will happen, but not the correct ones. The police will barricade themselves into their stations further removing themselves from the people whom they are supposed to protect rather than address the cause of the issue. It sucks for the victims and their families. I also see police forces further withdrawing from areas like detroit making it even more lawless.

You gotta be kidding. Not the "correct" ones?
A whack job walks into the police station and starts shooting and you're observation is that it will cause the police to "barricade" themselves? Bank tellers and taxi drivers have more protection on the job than the officers in this station did. Nobody said anything about barricaeds; the one cop mentioned that the desk was too high to see people's hands.
Cause of the issue? The shooter was some nut/loser/crackhead who couldn't deal with his own failures without trying to kill some innocent people at the same time. Just like Columbine, Arizona, Minnesota and a host of other places.
Supposed to protect? I'd say they did protect. Any police station has civilian workers, lawyers, citizens making statements or picking up paperwork, school kids on field trips. So yeah, they did their job and then some.
Imagine it's you or a family member who was just shot at while at work in the police station. Tell us, please, just what are the "correct" changes to prevent this happening again?