Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%
  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%
  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%

  • Total voters
    111
Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

One of our members personally witnessed an incident where a group of riders was receiving a bunch of document and equipment tickets in the clubbing district when a swarming attack broke out a short distance away. The cops didn't even radio the incident in, not to mention intervening.. They happily chugged along writing tickets. Now, even if the dispatch sent a single cruiser to intervene, would the cop really wanna mix it up with a bunch of guys who can turn him into a pot-roast within seconds?
 
Re: Overcriminalization

I'm not a smoker, never have never will, but ... I don't disagree. In the suggestion that I have for a "maximum allowable number of laws" - i.e. something has to come off the books for every new law put into effect ... this is something that can go away, in my opinion.

Actually, this one would be more difficult because international treaties are involved. Our neighbors did a great job on this one. On a good note (for them), their distilleries and lumber industry are still making a killing :cool:
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Watch the video again...the dude wasnt running, in fact he had come to a stop. If when a "suspect" stops the only options a cop has is to tackle him into a wall, shoot him or tazer him...there is a problem in the training of said cop.

If a suspect has been running then stops and faces the cops at some point, 99% chance he's preparing to fight. Just my guess of course.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Seems like all police actions are justified if there is 'probable cause'.

Not ALL action, but a tackle is a very suitable method for getting compliance from a suspect who had been refusing to comply. What would you have done?
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

If a suspect has been running then stops and faces the cops at some point, 99% chance he's preparing to fight. Just my guess of course.

Huh?? Since when? Ever thought the suspect would be "surrendering"....that does happen you know.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Huh?? Since when? Ever thought the suspect would be "surrendering"....that does happen you know.

Putting your hands in the air is a pretty universal sign for surrender. turning and facing your "assailant" is not.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Don't like the way the cop manhandled the victim after he peeled him off the wall. The victim was clearly out of it at that point.
 
Re: Overcriminalization

Just read George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four, written in the 1949. He saw exactly where we are headed. It's a 300 page paper back that can be P/U for $3 in a used book store, probably free on the web.
One of the new charges at the G20 this last summer was 'Conspiracy to commit mischief',
if that isn't 'thought crime' I don't know what is.

I read that book while I was in my twenty's, worried me back then. Scares the @hit out of me now. I was lucky enough to have a grade three teacher expose my class to a cartoon version of animal farm. Another George Orwell novel that shaped my thinking. All I can say is thanks Mrs. Solomen.
 
Re: Overcriminalization

I think the canadian cops will be going that extra mile to get their records to shine for a promotion and what not. Obviously the easy targets will be those who are least likely to afford legal representation. We gotta fill up those new super prisons we have planned.

Check out the Ontario government ministry of Finance website. Click on Salary disclosure. Check out the various police department salaries. Many of the in the $100,000.00 + range are traffic cops making that $$$ in court time. I approached my MPP with that info and got your typical deer in the headlight stare in response.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Putting your hands in the air is a pretty universal sign for surrender. turning and facing your "assailant" is not.

Did he get the chance to?
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

And then some.

Your joking right, the guy is literally taking his hands out of his jacket for a split second and before he does anything he is levelled. Stop making excuses this was excessive. The only reason this seems even remotely normal is because we have been brainwashed by the cops to think that every single person is a threat and every single person is some comic book villain with super human powers . So the only possible way of dealing with anybody is to hit them as hard as possible.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Not ALL action, but a tackle is a very suitable method for getting compliance from a suspect who had been refusing to comply. What would you have done?

I probably would of pepper sprayed the guy, then restrained him. Easy to think of sitting on the couch typing eh? However I would not of not blindsided the kid into the wall.

I also do think a tackle is suitable, but IMO that was not. It was a push/shove or maybe I watch too much football.

EDIT: After watching again that looked more like a hockey check.
 
Last edited:
Suicide by cop

http://www.freep.com/article/201101...fficers-shot-gunman-dead-in-horrifying-attack

It doesn't say why the guy walked into the police station and started shooting, but I suspect you will see more of this.

4 Detroit police officers shot, gunman dead in 'horrifying' attack

By GINA DAMRON, ELISHA ANDERSON and JOE ROSSITER
Free Press Staff Writers
Comments (56) Recommend (2) Print E-mail Letter to the editor Share
It was just before 4:30 p.m. Sunday when the gunman walked into the police station.



Sgt. Carrie Schulz was shot first. Cmdr. Brian Davis raced out of an office and exchanged fire with the gunman. Davis took a bullet in the back.

• Photos: Detroit officers shot in precinct

Then the gunman rushed the horseshoe-shaped front desk with his weapon drawn. Sgt. Ray Saati and Officer David Anderson were hit before police killed the 38-year-old shooter.

That’s how terror unfolded in the Detroit Police Department’s Northwestern District, according to interviews with police sources.

All of the officers are expected to recover, according to Police Chief Ralph Godbee Jr., but the incident has raised concern about security in the city’s many community police precincts and districts.

The four officers wounded Sunday were taken to Sinai-Grace Hospital, where hundreds of other officers came to support them. Mayor Dave Bing also was there, meeting with the shooting victims, spokesman Dan Lijana said.

Godbee did not release the names of those shot, but the Free Press obtained them from sources, including people who worked inside the building.

Davis underwent surgery for his wound and was in critical condition, but Godbee said his prognosis is very good.

Schulz was hit in the chest, but her bulletproof vest protected her. She was treated and released, Godbee said. On her Facebook page Sunday night, Schulz posted this partial status update: “Leave it to say bullet proof vests really do work! I am REALLY sore and have a few holes in the clothes but luckily no holes in me.”

Anderson had a graze wound on his head and was in temporary serious condition
Sunday night. He was alert and talking, but will be kept in the hospital for observation, Godbee said.

Saati also had a graze on his head and was hospitalized alert and talking.

Godbee said police have identified the shooter, but would not release his name.

It Was 'Horrifying'

Sgt. Todd Eby, who was in the station when the shooting erupted, called it “absolutely horrifying.” He was sitting at his desk in the back of the building when he heard the shots. He said the attack was unprovoked.

Officers took cover and returned fire, Godbee said.

“They did all the things that we train them to do under pressure,” he said.

Sunday’s shooting was not the first time a gunman has attacked Detroit police on their own turf.

According to a Free Press story from May 1998, Marvin Terry walked into the 9th (Gratiot) Precinct with a sawed-off rifle and automatic handgun and fired at least six rounds.

Terry, 25, was hit by numerous shots from officers returning fire. He was on life support and died later that year. No officers were injured.

Security Was A Concern

On Sunday night, a Salvation Army Emergency Disaster Services truck was parked outside the police station, along with a DPD crime scene services van.

Security at the precincts will be reviewed, Godbee said.

The station has access via a revolving door and two traditional glass doors. There is no bulletproof glass or metal detectors, according to an employee in the building.

Retired Police Sgt. David Malhalab said he hadn’t been in the building in a couple of years, but said the front desk “was always a concern, from Day 1.”

He said officers sit below the high desk and can’t see if someone has something in his or her hands when they come in.

Security changes are being looked at, and changes may be made in how members of the public are screened before they come in, Godbee said.

“It’s possible, more than likely, that we will be changing a number of things relative to standard operating procedures,” Godbee said.

“We owe it to our officers to take a look at security procedures at all of our facilities.”

Detroit City Council President Charles Pugh said the shooting underscores the vulnerability of police officers and the urgency of improving security at precincts.

“This really makes me angry because it’s so unnecessary,” Pugh said. “It’s outrageous that officers who protect our city every day are victimized like this.”

Staff writer Steve Neavling contributed to this report.



Read more: 4 Detroit police officers shot, gunman dead in 'horrifying' attack | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/201101...man-dead-in--horrifying--attack#ixzz1BxhdWGPV

Yes I think changes will happen, but not the correct ones. The police will barricade themselves into their stations further removing themselves from the people whom they are supposed to protect rather than address the cause of the issue. It sucks for the victims and their families. I also see police forces further withdrawing from areas like detroit making it even more lawless.
 
Re: Suicide by cop

You won't get any lip back from me on those counts. I'm glad that the cops got out of it without any serious casualties. The standard overreaction to this incident will make obtaining police services more inaccessible to the residents of Detroit and it could easily spill over across the border.
 
Re: Suicide by cop

"Suicide By Cop" is exactly what I thought, too, when I first read about it on CTV online.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Your joking right, the guy is literally taking his hands out of his jacket for a split second and before he does anything he is levelled. Stop making excuses this was excessive. The only reason this seems even remotely normal is because we have been brainwashed by the cops to think that every single person is a threat and every single person is some comic book villain with super human powers . So the only possible way of dealing with anybody is to hit them as hard as possible.

So the cop should wait and see if the guy is putting his hands up or taking out a weapon, then tackle?

Look, we only saw the end of the chase by which time the suspect has already slowed down enough that the cop has pretty much caught up to him. If he's giving up why isn't he showing his hands BEFORE slowing down? But even in that second of time caught on camera he kept his hands in his pockets while the linebacker wannabe gained a head of speed on him. The suspect shouldn't have run, and when he stopped he should have made it exceedingly clear that he was unarmed. The cop's only responsibility was to identify himself, other than that it looks to me like he used the least amount of force that he could at time to safely get compliance from the guy.

Of course that doesn't mean the suspect deserves to be in a coma but I'm sure the cop could put another guy in a coma like that even if he tried. It was an accident.
 
Re: Suicide by cop

That would never happen here in Burlington.









Outside of shift change, there are never any police officers at the police station.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

So the cop should wait and see if the guy is putting his hands up or taking out a weapon, then tackle?

Look, we only saw the end of the chase by which time the suspect has already slowed down enough that the cop has pretty much caught up to him. If he's giving up why isn't he showing his hands BEFORE slowing down? But even in that second of time caught on camera he kept his hands in his pockets while the linebacker wannabe gained a head of speed on him. The suspect shouldn't have run, and when he stopped he should have made it exceedingly clear that he was unarmed. The cop's only responsibility was to identify himself, other than that it looks to me like he used the least amount of force that he could at time to safely get compliance from the guy.

Of course that doesn't mean the suspect deserves to be in a coma but I'm sure the cop could put another guy in a coma like that even if he tried. It was an accident.

i thought it was a case of mistaken identity.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

So the cop should wait and see if the guy is putting his hands up or taking out a weapon, then tackle?

Exactly.

By the way, did anyone see a weapon on the runner? Another part of the back story is that when police searched the runner's clothing, they found a screwdriver in his pocket.
Investigators found a screwdriver in his pocket, and his wallet was missing but was later found.
A surveillance camera outside the Cinerama captured video footage of Harris being slammed into the wall. Paul, immediately after bringing Harris down, pulled Harris by his arm and onto his stomach. Urquhart said Paul stopped handcuffing Harris when he saw the extent of the injuries, and medics were called. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2009249844_copchase22m.html

That screwdriver sort of makes you go hmmmm, especially in light of a trend to screwdriver stabbing attacks. http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&s...&q=stab+police+screwdriver&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

So is that why the runner chose to run from cops? Because he knew he was carrying something that could be deemed a weapon by police? maybe even because he may have used it if not in the stabbing he was originally identified as being part of, but maybe another?

That's speculation, but what is not speculation is that he ran after being witness-identified to police as a stabbing suspect. He should have stopped when challenged by police, not started a 2-1/2 block foot pursuit that only served to confirm to police that the witnesses had identified the right guy wanted for a stabbing.
 
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